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Jesus Was a Liberal

argexpat

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"It is more blessed to give than to receive."

"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the Earth."

"Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven."

"For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

"The rich man's wealth is his strong city: the destruction of the poor is their poverty."

"He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the Lord; and that which he hath given will he pay him again."

"Blessed is he that considereth the poor: the Lord will deliver him in time of trouble."

"The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender."

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

"Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."

"The meek shall inherit the Earth."

"He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword."

"Give up your worldly possessions for the kingdom of God."

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

"A camel will pass through the eye of a needle before a rich man shall pass into heaven."

"Turn the other cheek."

This reads like a note for note refutation of the Bush Doctrine. If Jesus were to come back today, Republicans would denounce him as a hippie commie peacenik nutjob and tell him to go back to France.
 

Fantasea

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Sounds to me a lot like the inauguration address by GWB in 2001 and exerpts from many of his later speeches and press conference answers.

We'll probably hear some more in his 2005 inauguration address.
 

argexpat

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Fantasea said:
Sounds to me a lot like the inauguration address by GWB in 2001 and exerpts from many of his later speeches and press conference answers.

We'll probably hear some more in his 2005 inauguration address.
"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." -The Bible
 

Fantasea

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argexpat said:
"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." -The Bible
Well, I guess that no one could accuse you of being a 'Bushie'.
 

WKL815

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I wouldn't hesitate to add that God is a Republican. Too far? Okay make that Conservative.
 

WKL815

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Ooo. Ooo. I would also like to point out then that per dogma, God, in his infinite wisdom, allowed is son, the world's greatest liberal ever, to be sacrificed for the salvation of humanity.

What point were you trying to make?
 

averagejoe

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"keep an open heart, not an open mind", thats Jesus speaking to one of his disciples. The bible teaches that we are not to, as Christians be open to other faiths, and ideas of life that do not come from the word of God.
 

Fantasea

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averagejoe said:
"keep an open heart, not an open mind", thats Jesus speaking to one of his disciples. The bible teaches that we are not to, as Christians be open to other faiths, and ideas of life that do not come from the word of God.
The message is simple and quite clear. Love everyone, but remain true to the principles of Christ.

Followers will agree and abide. Some others will not and will raise challenges. The rest are ambivilent.
 

shuamort

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averagejoe said:
"keep an open heart, not an open mind", thats Jesus speaking to one of his disciples.
Where does it say that in the bible?

I know it says:
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

----OR----

Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.

----OR----

Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
But none of those say keep an open heart but not an open mind.
 

pwo

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Maybe economically liberal. Definantly not socially liberal.

I don't think Jesus ever cared to much about politics, he had other things to worry about.
 

Pacridge

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averagejoe said:
"keep an open heart, not an open mind", thats Jesus speaking to one of his disciples. The bible teaches that we are not to, as Christians be open to other faiths, and ideas of life that do not come from the word of God.
Where's this quote from? Which disciple was he speaking to?

I have never heard this quote.
 

argexpat

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Fantasea said:
The message is simple and quite clear. Love everyone, but remain true to the principles of Christ.
"To the rich man, I sayeth unto him, let thy taxes be cut."

"To the poor man, I sayeth unto him, render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's, and everything else, too."

"To the sons and daughters of the poor, I sayeth unto them, though shall spilleth thy blood for Texaco and Haliburton."

"To the Sodomites, I sayeth unto thee, ye shall be bannished to the Bravo channel."

"To those who disagree with mine words, thou shalt be branded America-haters!"
 

Mixed View

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Jesus was I guess sort of a liberal, but would he agree with some of the things the liberals stand for? Like gay-marriage or abortion? The sixth commandment says thou shall not kill! David says life begins in the womb. So a fetus is a child because it is in the womb. 1st Corinthians 6:9 says that abusers dunkers homosexuals etc... will not enter the kindom of God. Jesus preached to the sinners with love and compation. So should we. Was Jesus a liberal? I don't think Jesus was a part of any party or group. Jesus is what 30% of the world looks up to for what is right and what is wrong. Jesus just did the right thing. So is sociallism right? I'm not so sure. Sociallist say that Republicans hate the poor, but that is not the case. Democrats hate the people who stayed in school, got an education, and did something to benifet America, the rich. Shouldn't there be the same tax percentage for all classes ( lower middle and high ) because the bible says that we, everyone, should pay 10% of ones income to God. So that says that everyone should pay 10%. Lower Middle and High class. See now that is fair. that is just. that higher class will still be paying more than the middle and lower. but no. the dems hate justice and the rich. Should we take care of the poor? Heck yes we should! but that doesn't mean that we kill the rich to do that.
 

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satinloveslibs said:
Jesus was I guess sort of a liberal, but would he agree with some of the things the liberals stand for? Like gay-marriage or abortion? The sixth commandment says thou shall not kill! David says life begins in the womb. So a fetus is a child because it is in the womb. 1st Corinthians 6:9 says that abusers dunkers homosexuals etc... will not enter the kindom of God. Jesus preached to the sinners with love and compation. So should we. Was Jesus a liberal? I don't think Jesus was a part of any party or group. Jesus is what 30% of the world looks up to for what is right and what is wrong. Jesus just did the right thing. So is sociallism right? I'm not so sure. Sociallist say that Republicans hate the poor, but that is not the case. Democrats hate the people who stayed in school, got an education, and did something to benifet America, the rich. Shouldn't there be the same tax percentage for all classes ( lower middle and high ) because the bible says that we, everyone, should pay 10% of ones income to God. So that says that everyone should pay 10%. Lower Middle and High class. See now that is fair. that is just. that higher class will still be paying more than the middle and lower. but no. the dems hate justice and the rich. Should we take care of the poor? Heck yes we should! but that doesn't mean that we kill the rich to do that.
1st Cor 6:9 reads: “6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,”

Nothing about drunkards and really nothing about Homosexuals. Does say something about the “effeminate” which in previous centuries was interrupted to mean that women couldn’t go to heaven. So you’re welcome to interrupt it what ever way you want, I’m not joining you in your interruption.

To be fair to you there is a line about “drunkards” in the next passage: “6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

I think you’re completely wrong in regards to Jesus’ position on the poor. I think his teaching and his words made it very clear that he thought the wealthy should abandon their earthly possessions and give every assistance to the poor.



 

Arch Enemy

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Satin;

You need to understand that not everyone in America believes in Christianity and not every Christian believes the bible is the word of god. I can easily conclude that the old testament is a bunch of prophecies and a bunch of metaphors while the new is the more historical field.

America WILL never have an "official" religion, it'd be too opposed by all the other religious and free people in America.

You also used a quote from David for reasoning of Jesus.. Last time I checked Jesus and David weren't the same people. If these sinful people aren't going to enter into heaven, then why even spend time with them? Is spending 5 years of your life doing nothing but drinking alcohol make you a drunkard? and if this drunkard straightens up will he be able to enter into heaven though he is a drunkard?

Who are these people who "stayed in school, got an education, and benefited America" ?
 

pwo

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I think that Jesus thought that people should willing give to the poor, because they are good people and wan't to help. Socialism is not the same forceing people to give up half of their pay to be equal with poor people is not what Jesus wanted. Jesus was for charity, not welfare.

I am in a bind, because you guys are right Jesus was a pacifist. As individuals, maybe we should turn the other cheek. But as a country what should we do? rollover? If you are opposed to the Iraq war, ok, but what about necessary wars like WWII? Should we of rolled over to Hitler. I guess, our grandfathers and fathers would of done the right thing. But, they would of all been killed.

Jesus was socially conservative. He was the biggest pro-life advocate in the world. He loved life so much that he gave his own!

P.S. On another note, I like this new forum a lot. It is good for everyone to give their different opinions on Jesus.
 

shuamort

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pwo said:
I am in a bind, because you guys are right Jesus was a pacifist. As individuals, maybe we should turn the other cheek. But as a country what should we do? rollover? If you are opposed to the Iraq war, ok, but what about necessary wars like WWII? Should we of rolled over to Hitler. I guess, our grandfathers and fathers would of done the right thing. But, they would of all been killed.
You could think about it this way. What was good for the world 2000 years ago may not be good for the world today.

Jesus believed turning the other cheek was the right thing to do. Yet, God also thought sending plagues to the Pharaoh was the right thing to do as well.
 

anomaly

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satinloveslibs said:
Jesus was I guess sort of a liberal, but would he agree with some of the things the liberals stand for? Like gay-marriage or abortion? The sixth commandment says thou shall not kill! David says life begins in the womb. So a fetus is a child because it is in the womb. 1st Corinthians 6:9 says that abusers dunkers homosexuals etc... will not enter the kindom of God. Jesus preached to the sinners with love and compation. So should we. Was Jesus a liberal? I don't think Jesus was a part of any party or group. Jesus is what 30% of the world looks up to for what is right and what is wrong. Jesus just did the right thing. So is sociallism right? I'm not so sure. Sociallist say that Republicans hate the poor, but that is not the case. Democrats hate the people who stayed in school, got an education, and did something to benifet America, the rich. Shouldn't there be the same tax percentage for all classes ( lower middle and high ) because the bible says that we, everyone, should pay 10% of ones income to God. So that says that everyone should pay 10%. Lower Middle and High class. See now that is fair. that is just. that higher class will still be paying more than the middle and lower. but no. the dems hate justice and the rich. Should we take care of the poor? Heck yes we should! but that doesn't mean that we kill the rich to do that.
You never mention how Republicans do not hate the poor, as you claim.

Also, you are aware that you wrote this little critique of socialism with no knowledge of the capitalist system you adore, right? Leftists do not hate those who succeed, we simply understand that in capitalism the principle of competition ensures that a majority will in fact not be rich, or in some people's eyes, 'successful'. In fact, if everyone was as successful as you on the right claim to want them to be, the entire capitalist system would crumble! The left simply feels that workers and other poor in this world need to be looked after, that we should put humanity over a rich man's profit, that distribution of wealth and less economic polarization is a good idea.

Do you really think that Jesus was a capitalist, or that he'd favor the cruel and unfair capitalist system we see today? Of course not! Modern economics reveal that those religious right wingers place one thing above God and Jesus: the market.

We should give 10% of our incomes "to God"? What does that even mean? Throw some money as high as we can, and hope God 'grabs' it? I'm not really sure, but this is probably a reference to giving to the Church, or to charity. It doesn't at all mean there should be a completely flat tax. You can't rely on charity alone to redistribute wealth, hence social programs and taxes to fund them.

I think that if this discussion shows anything, it shows that Nietszche was right, some 120 years ago-there was only 1 true Christian, and he died on the cross (as everyone seems to oppose one thing that Jesus and Christianity stand for, either socially, morally, or economically).
 

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anomaly said:
You never mention how Republicans do not hate the poor, as you claim.
The Republicans wish all the poor were not poor so that they could contribute to the general welfare rather than being on it. That would also erase a major constituency of the Democratic Party, wouldn't it?
Also, you are aware that you wrote this little critique of socialism with no knowledge of the capitalist system you adore, right? Leftists do not hate those who succeed, we simply understand that in capitalism the principle of competition ensures that a majority will in fact not be rich, or in some people's eyes, 'successful'.
You fail to note that the term 'rich' is relative. One need not be the Chairman of the Board to be 'rich'. On the other hand, following your advice will guarantee that one will live happpily forever after in poverty.
In fact, if everyone was as successful as you on the right claim to want them to be, the entire capitalist system would crumble!
The socialist-lib-dems will ensure that this will never happen.
The left simply feels that workers and other poor in this world need to be looked after, that we should put humanity over a rich man's profit, that distribution of wealth and less economic polarization is a good idea.
The right simply feels that the poor should be 'eliminated' by lifting them out of poverty. To this end, means and opportunity abound. Those who partake succeed. Those who refuse remain mired in misery. They are truly the poster children of the socialist-lib-dems.
Do you really think that Jesus was a capitalist, or that he'd favor the cruel and unfair capitalist system we see today? Of course not! Modern economics reveal that those religious right wingers place one thing above God and Jesus: the market.
Do not confuse Jesus with people who ignore his word. There are good and bad in every walk of life.
We should give 10% of our incomes "to God"? What does that even mean? Throw some money as high as we can, and hope God 'grabs' it? I'm not really sure, but this is probably a reference to giving to the Church, or to charity.
The principle of 'tithing' exists among many believers, doesn't it?
It doesn't at all mean there should be a completely flat tax. You can't rely on charity alone to redistribute wealth, hence social programs and taxes to fund them.
I have noticed that by and large, the folks most interested in redistribution of wealth have no wealth to redistribute. Perhaps if they made the effort to acquire some, and did so, I wonder how much of it they would be willing to redistribute?
I think that if this discussion shows anything, it shows that Nietszche was right, some 120 years ago-there was only 1 true Christian, and he died on the cross (as everyone seems to oppose one thing that Jesus and Christianity stand for, either socially, morally, or economically).
Having long since gone to his reward, He now knows whether he was right. Your calculation of "everyone" is just about as half-baked as most of the socialist blather with which you are so well endowed. Evidently, you haven't come across the right people.
 

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religion is conservative and reactionary either way you look at it. Religion is just control, islam, judaeism (sorry for spelling that wrong), christianity - all of them want to tell you what to do, what to think, who to obey. It's all just bourgeous control. A true liberal wouldn't be as arrogant to think that he knew the best for all the people's of the world - as 13 guys 2000 years ago seemed to think they did...
 

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jay123 said:
religion is conservative and reactionary either way you look at it. Religion is just control, islam, judaeism (sorry for spelling that wrong), christianity - all of them want to tell you what to do, what to think, who to obey. It's all just bourgeous control. A true liberal wouldn't be as arrogant to think that he knew the best for all the people's of the world - as 13 guys 2000 years ago seemed to think they did...
Well said, and I absolutely agree. Of course the Rabid Religious Right will be down on you like a ton of bricks!
 

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Jay is some part I agree with you.

Organized religion is a form of control, however Jesus was not part of organized religion, he was a rebel, who taught differently to the Jewish Priests. I admire the teachings of Christ, however maybe organized religion has corrupted those believes, for example Christainity and probably Islam are the most intolerent religions in the world.

Some Church leaders spread hate towards homosexuals, other religions (Islam particulary now). Televangelists who worship the "Almighty Dollar" and suck in people with healing scams.
I heard a preacher say "Thank you Lord for giving us a leader, with the courage to fight against the muslim henchman of Satan."
I've heard, "Islam and Christainity can not co-exist, one must destroy the other, and Christ will prevail."

Very different from the teachings of peace, love and tolerance of Christ.
 

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Fantasea said:
anomaly said:
The Republicans wish all the poor were not poor so that they could contribute to the general welfare rather than being on it. That would also erase a major constituency of the Democratic Party, wouldn't it?
Why? A large portion of poor rural folk, especially in the south, are already voting Republican.
 
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