Jesus-Savior or Slacker

[Just Me 2]

Ok I had no clue what to title this thing. Since we are kinda all over in this.

Your last post from the other thread.

Originally Posted by jfuh
The parts that do little to his message other than wielded him with godly powers to make him super human for the purpose of what I perceive as control by the early church - it was too much absolute and I could not accept it, it drew away from his teachings too much, as I often see in many church gatherings today. But I believe that's a subject for another thread and we have seriously gone off topic here.

So please elaborate to the extent that you are comfortable why you could not still have Jesus in your life without the control of the Church.

 

[jfuh]

Re: Jesus-Savor or Slacker

Ok I had no clue what to title this thing. Since we are kinda all over in this.

Your last post from the other thread.


So please elaborate to the extent that you are comfortable why you could not still have Jesus in your life without the control of the Church.

Interesting title lol.
It's not that I don't have jesus in my life, but more that I don't have jesus as the lord our savior in my life as a deity. In order to get to the nit and gritty or what I deem as a true interpretation of the word of jesus I cast aside all aspects that could've been tainted by a religion or church for the purpose of control of the mass.
Hence questioning the very essence.
To which then essentially all non-essentials - ie, the baskets upon baskets of fish and bread deemed pointless to his teachings for me.
Then was casting aside the resurrection and ascension of christ into heaven body and soul as early works by paul clearly stated of a spiritual body and a material body which is what I saw as the interpretation of ascension into heaven being a purely spiritual one. For what purpose indeed would there be or necessity of a human body or material body be in heaven? Didn't make any practical sense for an immortal being to require the "casket" of a material flesh body.
The more I looked at it, the more I saw that many "religions" in the world had the superstitious aspects mixed in so as to be more compelling. Now I'm not too well read into islam but it is my understanding of many supernatural instances there as well. Straight Buddhism, that is not Lamaism or daoist interpretations of Buddhism is quite strictly philosophical; and so on and so forth with the greek gods as well.
Thus to seek a truer understanding of spirituality in within itself, I cast aside the religious rhetoric to seek a clearer "truth".
That's me anyway.

 

[Just Me 2]

Re: Jesus-Savor or Slacker

Interesting title lol.
It's not that I don't have jesus in my life, but more that I don't have jesus as the lord our savior in my life as a deity. In order to get to the nit and gritty or what I deem as a true interpretation of the word of jesus I cast aside all aspects that could've been tainted by a religion or church for the purpose of control of the mass.
Hence questioning the very essence.
To which then essentially all non-essentials - ie, the baskets upon baskets of fish and bread deemed pointless to his teachings for me.
Then was casting aside the resurrection and ascension of christ into heaven body and soul as early works by paul clearly stated of a spiritual body and a material body which is what I saw as the interpretation of ascension into heaven being a purely spiritual one. For what purpose indeed would there be or necessity of a human body or material body be in heaven? Didn't make any practical sense for an immortal being to require the "casket" of a material flesh body.
The more I looked at it, the more I saw that many "religions" in the world had the superstitious aspects mixed in so as to be more compelling. Now I'm not too well read into islam but it is my understanding of many supernatural instances there as well. Straight Buddhism, that is not Lamaism or daoist interpretations of Buddhism is quite strictly philosophical; and so on and so forth with the greek gods as well.
Thus to seek a truer understanding of spirituality in within itself, I cast aside the religious rhetoric to seek a clearer "truth".
That's me anyway.

If I understand correctly you are saying that you don't believe in the whole supernatural aspect of Jesus. You believe His teaching but not all the hoopla that went with it.

I don't put much stock into the things in the Bible because I agree that it is all based on interpretation but I do feel that you can accept Jesus without believing every single thing in the Bible, this is where I get into a lot of trouble with fellow Christians.

I don't believe in organized religion. I do belong to a Church but I don't feel that I have to go for Jesus to hear me. I am a firm believer that Jesus was/is everywhere and He will hear me no matter where I am. I also don't believe that I have to go to Church for Him to love me.

Do you believe that there is a Heaven or Promise Land that we go to when we die?

 

[jfuh]

Re: Jesus-Savor or Slacker

If I understand correctly you are saying that you don't believe in the whole supernatural aspect of Jesus. You believe His teaching but not all the hoopla that went with it.

Precisely, the spiritual aspect, but not the supernatural "hoopla".

I don't put much stock into the things in the Bible because I agree that it is all based on interpretation but I do feel that you can accept Jesus without believing every single thing in the Bible, this is where I get into a lot of trouble with fellow Christians.

I don't believe in organized religion. I do belong to a Church but I don't feel that I have to go for Jesus to hear me. I am a firm believer that Jesus was/is everywhere and He will hear me no matter where I am. I also don't believe that I have to go to Church for Him to love me.

I couldn't agree more. That's my belief as well. If god is everywhere and god hears everything, why must I go to seek the interpretation of what one preist says or what one church says or even what a church says at all? It is my belief that if you are to find god, you must do so on your own not what someone else tells you. Jesus to me is but the cyrstalization of his teachings - hence regardless of what becomes of historical facts and what new facts we unearth about Jesus, or any other religious icon it would make little variance to my spirituality. IE the claim that Jesus' tomb had been found and that he was indeed married with Mary of Magdalen makes no difference to me whatsoever in my spirituality and "faith" in his teachings as I had separated the superstition from the philosophy.
The hierarchy within many churches to me are blasphemous against the very religion they preach.

Do you believe that there is a Heaven or Promise Land that we go to when we die?

No, I don't; because I believe that heaven is on earth. This is where I go really wack by some definitions. And why I've become anti-religion. Too many religions put too much emphasis on the afterlife or life after death which ever. But I believe that life and how you make it is heaven. Why wait for an uncertainty or live for a death - if you follow me - when there is a certainty here in our very existence. I don't need faith to tell me of my life today I live it. Hence instead of pondering a question that I'd never have an answer to today, including is there a god; the time is better spent on how to create my own heaven on earth today.

 

[Just Me 2]

Re: Jesus-Savor or Slacker

I couldn't agree more. That's my belief as well. If god is everywhere and god hears everything, why must I go to seek the interpretation of what one preist says or what one church says or even what a church says at all? It is my belief that if you are to find god, you must do so on your own not what someone else tells you. Jesus to me is but the cyrstalization of his teachings - hence regardless of what becomes of historical facts and what new facts we unearth about Jesus, or any other religious icon it would make little variance to my spirituality. IE the claim that Jesus' tomb had been found and that he was indeed married with Mary of Magdalen makes no difference to me whatsoever in my spirituality and "faith" in his teachings as I had separated the superstition from the philosophy.
The hierarchy within many churches to me are blasphemous against the very religion they preach.

It make no difference to me if Jesus married Mary either because I believe that while hear on Earth he was a mortal man not the deity he became after the crucifiction. That is when I believe that he crossed over for lack a better word to divine.

No, I don't; because I believe that heaven is on earth. This is where I go really wack by some definitions. And why I've become anti-religion. Too many religions put too much emphasis on the afterlife or life after death which ever. But I believe that life and how you make it is heaven. Why wait for an uncertainty or live for a death - if you follow me - when there is a certainty here in our very existence. I don't need faith to tell me of my life today I live it. Hence instead of pondering a question that I'd never have an answer to today, including is there a god; the time is better spent on how to create my own heaven on earth today.

Hmmmm ok so you believe that when we die that's it? Now this is where we differ. I do think there is a better place. I can't believe that this is all there is for a few reasons. First there is so much pain, hurt and sow here and I don't think that is what Jesus meant when he said if we believe in Him we will have life ever-lasting. Another reason and a big one is that when I hear about a child dying by no choice of their own I have to believe that there is a better place waiting for them. Children are the foundation of our being and many don't have or never get to the point where they can live their lives as you say. If is very sad to think that they are just gone. I also think that the knowledge that there is a heaven and the knowledge that we will meet our maker at some point is what drives people to do good. Now is that the right driving force? I can't say. I also believe that there is a "hell" not in fire and brimstone way but a place for all those that have done unspeakable things will pay for it. Again it it is bothersome to think that a person that has done very evil things will never pay for it.

Do you believe that Jesus is the son of God?

 

[jfuh]

Re: Jesus-Savor or Slacker

Hmmmm ok so you believe that when we die that's it? Now this is where we differ. I do think there is a better place. I can't believe that this is all there is for a few reasons. First there is so much pain, hurt and sow here and I don't think that is what Jesus meant when he said if we believe in Him we will have life ever-lasting.

That can be interpreted in many ways though. I believe the quote was "[SIZE=-1]No one can come to the Father except through me." Is this the passage you're referencing to? See I believe this to be that through what he stands for, through his teachings rather than through him as in believing in him. But yes this is where we part our paths.[/SIZE]

Another reason and a big one is that when I hear about a child dying by no choice of their own I have to believe that there is a better place waiting for them. Children are the foundation of our being and many don't have or never get to the point where they can live their lives as you say. If is very sad to think that they are just gone.

Hmmm. I'm more of the reincarnation on this one in that it agrees more with the science side in me of that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Hence, if I must, the spiritual side of me simply sees life as a cycle. Then also, if Earth is suffrage, and there is a heaven, then why a omni benevolent god be so cruel as to place us here for suffrage?

I also think that the knowledge that there is a heaven and the knowledge that we will meet our maker at some point is what drives people to do good. Now is that the right driving force? I can't say. I also believe that there is a "hell" not in fire and brimstone way but a place for all those that have done unspeakable things will pay for it. Again it it is bothersome to think that a person that has done very evil things will never pay for it.

Too judgmental for me to believe. In some cultures certain aspects are considered completely barbaric by our standards - ie cannibalism in New Guinea. They don't know it to be sin simply a way of life, so will they go to hell? In other regions of the world - boy soldiers in africa - the only method of life is through the deaths of others. The acts they commit are obviously evil in every way, and they know none the wiser, I refuse to believe that such acts of, what is really just survival are to go punished by hell. Hence why I can not accept the aspect of heaven or hell. To me my makers are my parents - god or no god, I certainly would not be here today without the very truth of them and my ancestors - I guess you can call it a very Chinese method of going about it.

Do you believe that Jesus is the son of God?

Yes, in the same way that we are all the sons and daughters of god. I don't believe that Jesus ever directly stated that he was born by god, only constant references to his father god - maybe I'm wrong? But then, don't we all say, god the father? Our father god?

 

[nes]

Re: Jesus-Savor or Slacker

Interesting title lol.
It's not that I don't have jesus in my life, but more that I don't have jesus as the lord our savior in my life as a deity. In order to get to the nit and gritty or what I deem as a true interpretation of the word of jesus I cast aside all aspects that could've been tainted by a religion or church for the purpose of control of the mass.
Hence questioning the very essence.
To which then essentially all non-essentials - ie, the baskets upon baskets of fish and bread deemed pointless to his teachings for me.
Then was casting aside the resurrection and ascension of christ into heaven body and soul as early works by paul clearly stated of a spiritual body and a material body which is what I saw as the interpretation of ascension into heaven being a purely spiritual one. For what purpose indeed would there be or necessity of a human body or material body be in heaven? Didn't make any practical sense for an immortal being to require the "casket" of a material flesh body.
The more I looked at it, the more I saw that many "religions" in the world had the superstitious aspects mixed in so as to be more compelling. Now I'm not too well read into islam but it is my understanding of many supernatural instances there as well. Straight Buddhism, that is not Lamaism or daoist interpretations of Buddhism is quite strictly philosophical; and so on and so forth with the greek gods as well.
Thus to seek a truer understanding of spirituality in within itself, I cast aside the religious rhetoric to seek a clearer "truth".
That's me anyway.

If you happened to read the bible, Jesus actually went to hell after death on the cross (and later was revived out of hell to Earth then to heaven). The penalty of sin is death, not eternal punishment. It doesn't say in the bible that Jesus needed a casket or anything such as that, people would voluntarily have to put a casket on him. Even some authors, might have been politically motivated at the time. Indeed some authors appear to not even follow the "rules/guidelines" (as in not sinning) of what they wrote down.

I think people (if going to heaven) have time while ascending in to heaven (as crazy as it sounds) so you have a choice not to go to heaven which if that choice is taken, should result in going to hell.

Most religions of the world have different interpretations by different groups of people. Just look at Mormonism, people claiming to be prophets which could be a ticket to hell under the bible . I'm not apart of any organization and have not attended a church for a long time. I also think people got the incorrect definition of the word prophet.