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Jesus Christ

To me, Jesus was a pointer of mans nature and what man could and should become. The understanding mans true nature and that there is no separation between man and God.

In the Gospel of Thomas saying 108: Jesus makes this clear when he is talking to Thomas: Jesus said: He who drinks from my mouth will become like me, and I will become like him, and the hidden things will be revealed to him.

To me, Jesus is saying that anyone who listens to and truly understands his words can accomplish all that he has done and more. Far from being a sacrificial lamb who takes away the sins of the world, Jesus is a pointer of the way to truth!
Entirely WRONG. Man cannot become GOD. And reference to "things hidden" is insidious GNOSTICISM at its worst. Read the book ---but read it in the FULL light of the GOSPEL ------------- don't try replacing it with what was rejected by the EARLY CHURCH.
 
It indicates that GOD being TRIUNE personified LOVE as ONE essence from eternity passed to eternity future.
Yet, Jesus did not possess immortality until after his resurrection, unlike Jehovah who has always been immortal with no beginning, Jesus did indeed have a beginning...only after his resurrection by Jehovah God was he declared immortal...

“Christ, now that he has been raised up from the dead, dies no more; death is master over him no more.” Romans 6:9
 
Yet, Jesus did not possess immortality until after his resurrection, unlike Jehovah who has always been immortal with no beginning, Jesus did indeed have a beginning...only after his resurrection by Jehovah God was he declared immortal...

“Christ, now that he has been raised up from the dead, dies no more; death is master over him no more.” Romans 6:9
Romans 6:9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
This verse is for OUR benefit. It's our hope that since CHRIST was raised, that so likewise will HIS followers. And since death could not contain HIM, death has lost its sting towards HIS followers. This only applies to HIS followers. And they too will experience a bodily resurrection, just as CHRIST did. GOD by HIS SON assumed the form of a servant by emptying HIMSELF and becoming flesh for the sake of HIS elect too demonstrate just how much GOD loves those HE came to save. GOD's LOVE is not demonstrated by sending someone else to do the dirty work. And this is just one of the reasons I firmly believe in the TRINITY. GOD is not human. Humans are not GOD. HOWEVER, GOD HIMSELF had the ability to assume the form of a moral man and give up HIS SPIRIT HIMSELF. This is the part MESSIAH played out. The HOLY SPIRIT (THE COMFORTER) now comes to reside in EVERY saved individual. This is the part HE plays out. The FATHER is the acting director of all events as they are to occur. This is HIS role.

I have no desire to harm your faith in CHRIST ---- but you must get to know HIM, or HE will not know you when the time comes.
 
Jesus of Nazareth was a real person. There is nothing mythological about Him. There is plenty of historical evidence proving He was real, both secular and non-secular. No amount of skepticism can alter this fact.

That Jesus was executed by crucifixion by the Romans in Jerusalem is also a historical fact. No amount of skepticism can alter that fact either. It happened.

The "kicker" though is His resurrection from the dead. This too is historical fact, evidenced by the many who saw Him (well over 500 people) and proclaimed Him as having risen from the dead and who would not deny their claim, even under penalty of death - which most sadly had to endure. One, two, three eyewitnesses is one thing - but over 500? That's an entirely different thing. It happened and is the bedrock event of the Christian faith.

He did numerous miracles during His 3 year "ministry" - mostly the healing of people who could not otherwise be healed - He healed the blind, He cured some of leprosy, He cured the paralyzed and lame, enabling them to walk, He cured a woman whom many doctors had tried, and failed to heal of hemorrhaging, He restored a man's withered hand - in front of people who didn't like Him, who were testing Him to see if He'd "violate" their law of "working" on the Sabbath and who afterwards would determine to destroy Him. He healed the deaf, enabling them to hear. He even brought the dead back to life - several times.

Moreover, He did it both in the presence of the person whom He was healing and He did it from a distance.

His wisdom and knowledge was unassailable - despite many of the most learned and knowledgeable of His day trying to trip Him up in either, and who eventually gave up trying to do so.

Jesus claimed to be God. He claimed to be "Lord" - which in that time and era was equivalent to saying He was God. When asked, He did not deny it.

Either that claim was true, or it wasn't. His resurrection proves it was. Jesus is not "a god" - Jesus is "THE GOD."

Jesus is also the "Christ" - or in Hebrew, "Messiah," which means "anointed one," or, "chosen one." The messiah was one foretold to save humanity from their sin. Moses spoke of Him, as did David and Daniel, Isaiah, and other prophets.
So Jesus is not only attested by His miracles, His knowledge and wisdom, His claims, His life, and His resurrection - He is also attested by numerous prophecies in the Old Testament - which found their fulfillment in Him.

Jesus is no myth. He is real. He is alive. He is God. And He is coming again...
Hmm… have yet to see any historical evidence for the existence of Jesus of Nazareth outside of the Bible. Could be it was just the old days and most people couldn’t document the events, but that seems implausible. If a guy was performing miracles you’d think historians would write that down. Or some government scribe somewhere would have penned it, but they didn’t. So it goes, I guess.
 
Hmm… have yet to see any historical evidence for the existence of Jesus of Nazareth outside of the Bible. Could be it was just the old days and most people couldn’t document the events, but that seems implausible. If a guy was performing miracles you’d think historians would write that down. Or some government scribe somewhere would have penned it, but they didn’t. So it goes, I guess.
There are places and people ----- both then and now. Let me see, If Jesus were here right now ---- would the excuse for some government official not recording things he was saying and doing be ---- SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE? Back then Jesus was running against the sensibilities of both the ROMAN elite (who proclaimed their Cesar god), and the Jewish Sanhedrin who were afraid that they would lose their control of the people.

There is an interesting consideration regarding the very quick spreading of Christianity after the resurrection of CHRIST. The one is the dispersal of the Jews after the fall of Jerusalem, and the other, that seems to have begun earlier, is the spreading of Christianity among the army of ROME itself. The men who were guarding the tomb, and those who witnessed the death of CHRIST upon the cross and felt the events. And even Pilate's wife warned her husband. You're not going to pull the wool over the eyes of some man in the service. They usually know what's real and what isn't. For them it's about commands. They did what they did as part of ROMAN ceremony ----- they didn't believe in all those silly gods and goddesses. But collaborated eyewitness accounts among the men, that's a whole other level. "Truly, this was the SON of GOD." This all played a part. Now, it is up to YOU!
 
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There are places and people ----- both then and now. Let me see, If Jesus were here right now ---- would the excuse for some government official not recording things he was saying and doing be ---- SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE? Back then Jesus was running against the sensibilities of both the ROMAN elite (who proclaimed their Cesar god), and the Jewish Sanhedrin who were afraid that they would lose their control of the people.

There is an interesting consideration regarding the very quick spreading of Christianity after the resurrection of CHRIST. The one is the dispersal of the Jews after the fall of Jerusalem, and the other, that seems to have begun earlier, is the spreading of Christianity among the army of ROME itself. The men who were guarding the tomb, and those who witnessed the death of CHRIST upon the cross and felt the events. And even Pilate's wife warned her husband. You're not going to pull the wool over the eyes of some man in the service. They usually know what's real and what isn't. For them it's about commands. They did what they did as part of ROMAN ceremony ----- they didn't believe in all those silly gods and goddesses. But collaborated eyewitness accounts among the men, that's a whole other level. "Truly, this was the SON of GOD." This all played a part. Now, it is up to YOU!
Why do you think that Christianity spread so fast in the ranks of the Roman army?
Here is something for you to ponder: The Roman army was mainly made up of the followers of Mithra, this religion had been around for many centuries prior to Christianity. What made Christianity so appealing to the Roman soldiers, it was the common characteristics between Mithra and the Christ.
  • Mithra was born on December 25th of the virgin Anahita.​
  • The babe was wrapped in swaddling clothes, placed in a manger and attended by shepherds.​
  • He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.​
  • He had 12 companions or “disciples.”​
  • He performed miracles.​
  • As the “great bull of the Sun,” Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace.​
  • He ascended to heaven.​
  • Mithra was viewed as the Good Shepherd, the “Way, the Truth and the Light,” the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah.​
  • Mithra is omniscient, as he “hears all, sees all, knows all: none can deceive him.”​
  • He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.​
  • His sacred day was Sunday, “the Lord’s Day,” hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.​
  • His religion had a eucharist or “Lord’s Supper.”​
  • Mithra “sets his marks on the foreheads of his soldiers.”​
  • Mithraism emphasized baptism.​
Do these sound familiar, it has been suggested that the early Christians adopted these attributes of Mithra and applied them to Jesus to win over the Roman soldiers and a large majority of the population that followed Mithra, this assisted in the rise of Christianity.

 
Your vote doesn't count, because you don't even believe in GOD ----- so how could Jesus be God in YOUR eyes...

The OP didn't say I couldn't answer if I don't believe in a god.
 
Jesus didn't supposedly start out as a god, but Christians wanted to worship Jesus and you can't do that in the Abrahamic religions. Therefore they invented the concept of the trinity to turn Jesus into a god, or part of the godhead. There are many problems with it, but what mythologies are without them?
Looks like it.
 
Jesus Christ is the Abrahamic God.
There are many, many verses in the Bible that support that.
Logic supports that.
The Bible does not prove anything.
If you believe in the Bible then you must also believe in Noah's Ark and other fairy tales.
 
The Bible does not prove anything.
If you believe in the Bible then you must also believe in Noah's Ark and other fairy tales.
If you don't believe in the Bible then you must not be a Christian...
 
Another perspective:
(excerpt):
Ironically, the requirement to “believe in the Bible” in order to be a Christian is itself unbiblical. Nowhere in the Bible is this standard ever stated. Jesus doesn’t preach that one must believe in the Bible to be saved. The disciples don’t go forth to deliver Bibles to the world so that those who read them can be saved. Paul doesn’t proclaim that the Gospel is believing in the Bible. Nor is the converse true: the Bible never declares that those who don’t believe in it are excluded from the Kingdom of God.

But the very idea of “believing” in the Bible is itself nonsensical. The Bible is an extraordinarily complex collection of texts, written and edited by various authors over great spans of time for different reasons and within different contexts. Interpretation of these texts is an equally complex process, and cannot simply be reduced to “believing” everything that is contained within the pages of the Bible. I don’t believe that bashing infants’ heads against rocks makes you happy (Psalm 137:9). I don’t believe that slaves should submit to the cruelty of their masters (1 Peter 2:18). And I don’t believe that women should be silent in church (1 Corinthians 14:34). Does not believing those passages make me not a Christian?

Of course there is much in the Bible that I do believe. I believe that Jesus is Lord (Romans 10:9). I believe that Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:3-4). I believe that God is love (1 John 4:8). I believe that the greatest commandments are to love God and neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40). And I believe that Christ will bring peace and salvation to everyone (Colossians 1:19-20). If believing those things isn’t sufficient for me to claim the label “Christian,” then I’m not sure it’s a label worth claiming.

However, I doubt that’s what this question is really driving at. Instead, my guess is that the question is informed by the fundamentalist dogma that if you don’t believe the supposedly biblical notions that homosexuality is a sin, that non-Christians are destined for eternal conscious torment in Hell, that the Earth was created in six literal days 10,000 years ago, and that the Bible itself is absolutely infallible and inerrant, then you can’t really be a Christian. If that’s the standard by which Christians are to be judged, then count me out.

 
Nowhere in the Bible is this standard ever stated. Jesus doesn’t preach that one must believe in the Bible to be saved.
That is not true...we are to follow Jesus' commandments...where do we find them? In the Bible...

“If you love me, you will observe my commandments." John 14:15

"If you observe my commandments, you will remain in my love,+ just as I have observed the commandments of the Father and remain in his love." John 15:10

Christians must also love one another...

"I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another." John 13:34
 
Jesus of Nazareth was a real person. There is nothing mythological about Him. There is plenty of historical evidence proving He was real, both secular and non-secular. No amount of skepticism can alter this fact.

That Jesus was executed by crucifixion by the Romans in Jerusalem is also a historical fact. No amount of skepticism can alter that fact either. It happened.

The "kicker" though is His resurrection from the dead. This too is historical fact, evidenced by the many who saw Him (well over 500 people) and proclaimed Him as having risen from the dead and who would not deny their claim, even under penalty of death - which most sadly had to endure. One, two, three eyewitnesses is one thing - but over 500? That's an entirely different thing. It happened and is the bedrock event of the Christian faith.

He did numerous miracles during His 3 year "ministry" - mostly the healing of people who could not otherwise be healed - He healed the blind, He cured some of leprosy, He cured the paralyzed and lame, enabling them to walk, He cured a woman whom many doctors had tried, and failed to heal of hemorrhaging, He restored a man's withered hand - in front of people who didn't like Him, who were testing Him to see if He'd "violate" their law of "working" on the Sabbath and who afterwards would determine to destroy Him. He healed the deaf, enabling them to hear. He even brought the dead back to life - several times.

Moreover, He did it both in the presence of the person whom He was healing and He did it from a distance.

His wisdom and knowledge was unassailable - despite many of the most learned and knowledgeable of His day trying to trip Him up in either, and who eventually gave up trying to do so.

Jesus claimed to be God. He claimed to be "Lord" - which in that time and era was equivalent to saying He was God. When asked, He did not deny it.

Either that claim was true, or it wasn't. His resurrection proves it was. Jesus is not "a god" - Jesus is "THE GOD."

Jesus is also the "Christ" - or in Hebrew, "Messiah," which means "anointed one," or, "chosen one." The messiah was one foretold to save humanity from their sin. Moses spoke of Him, as did David and Daniel, Isaiah, and other prophets.
So Jesus is not only attested by His miracles, His knowledge and wisdom, His claims, His life, and His resurrection - He is also attested by numerous prophecies in the Old Testament - which found their fulfillment in Him.

Jesus is no myth. He is real. He is alive. He is God. And He is coming again...

As a Christian I must refute your points, all of them. The truth is the ONLY authentication ever found is the mention of the name Pontius Pilot in Roman history. Not one aspect of the rest of the story has been found. Also, we run into a head ache kind of problem in that no Hebrew would allow an execution on the eve of the Sabath.

The miracle and 'proof' of Jesus existence is in the fact that his foundational teachings are world wide...He remains the 'rock star' image 2,000 years after;' that his name still grows from a time before an internet let alone books & priting or even paper. His proof is in the hearts of His followers. He needs no more.
 
That is not true...we are to follow Jesus' commandments...where do we find them? In the Bible...
"If" you love me; "IF" you observe, doesn't imply "must" and it doesn't say you aren't considered a christian if one does neither of those things.
 
"If" you love me; "IF" you observe, doesn't imply "must" and it doesn't say you aren't considered a christian if one does neither of those things.
Yet, it is what Christianity is based on...observing the commandments given by Jehovah God and Jesus Christ in the Bible...their commandments define who Christians are...
 
observing the commandments given by Jehovah God and Jesus Christ in the Bible...their commandments define who Christians are...
Nah. The commandments establish laws all of which have been broken throughout the centuries by innumerable numbers of christians. Believing in god's laws does not imply that one believes in all of the bible or that one must believe all of it. Did you read what I posted above? He makes excellent points. I don't understand why believing the entire book is necessary to be a christian. I would have thought believing in christ was sufficient. If one must believe in the entire book, then must one practice all of what's in the book, including all the stuff in paragraph 2 of the article I pasted above?
 
The commandments establish laws all of which have been broken throughout the centuries by innumerable numbers of christians. Believing in god's laws does not imply that one believes in all of the bible or that one must believe all of it.
Nah, you are wrong...that is not what Jesus said...

"Sanctify them by means of the truth;+ your word is truth." John 17:17

I don't follow what other so called Christians do...I follow Christ...
 
Nah, you are wrong...that is not what Jesus said...

"Sanctify them by means of the truth;+ your word is truth." John 17:17

I don't follow what other so called Christians do...I follow Christ...
You are avoiding what you cannot refute. Following christ is not equivalent to being required to believe the entire bible in order to be considered a christian.
 
You are avoiding what you cannot refute. Following christ is not equivalent to being required to believe the entire bible in order to be considered a christian.
What do you think Jesus meant by John 17:17? What is God's Word?
 
What do you think Jesus meant by John 17:17? What is God's Word?
I have no idea and I'm disinclined to read the entire chapter to discern what that clip means in context. Can't remember where I saw this, there are allegedly 31,246 words spoken by Jesus in the bible, approx. 4 hrs of reading. There are a lot of other words allegedly spoken by a lot of other people in the bible. So, I can accept that to be a christian one must believe 31,246 words rather than the entire book.
 
I have no idea and I'm disinclined to read the entire chapter to discern what that clip means in context. Can't remember where I saw this, there are allegedly 31,246 words spoken by Jesus in the bible, approx. 4 hrs of reading. There are a lot of other words allegedly spoken by a lot of other people in the bible. So, I can accept that to be a christian one must believe 31,246 words rather than the entire book.
Jesus's words are clear...if Christians are to be sanctified/made holy/set apart for sacred service to God by truth and God's Word the Bible is truth, then it is necessary to believe in that Bible...that ain't rocket science...
 
Jesus's words are clear...if Christians are to be sanctified/made holy/set apart for sacred service to God by truth and God's Word the Bible is truth, then it is necessary to be believe in that Bible...that ain't rocket science...
If science were involved, fewer people would believe....as I stated previously, I can live with the 31,246 words being believed. The majority of the book is hearsay and up for dispute.
 
If science were involved, fewer people would believe....as I stated previously, I can live with the 31,246 words being believed. The majority of the book is hearsay and up for dispute.
Well, you don't have to now, do you? But a Christian, a true Christian, does...
 
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