Japan suggests UK jobs would be lost on EU exit

[PeteEU]

Cheaper labour certainly exists there - if the car companies were only interested in the lowest costs they would have moved long ago. Unemployment in Spain is ridiculously high - a car manufacturer moving to Spain would have to fight the job applicants off if it moved to Spain.

Well, there has been and is car manufacturing here, so the expertise is here, not to mention the actual factories. If the labor laws are changed even more, then who knows. Point is, that the big car companies could easily move their production to the continent.

Subsidies paid are illegal no?

Oh they are but we both know there are other ways. Oh that land.. sure you can lease that for 1 pound the next 100 years.. no problem!

UK bond yields briefly rise above France: don't panic, say analysts | Business | guardian.co.uk

That was in January... it has been like that for months now.

Nukes aren't the only thing oil revenues went on..

Nope but clearly the most wasteful

Sorry but the banking changes were punitive against the UK, designed to get money in other ways as we weren't obliged to pay into the Euro bail-out plans in any great way.

Hey not our fault that the UK does not understand that something has to be done to prevent another financial melt down.

I've explained countless times that just because a rule was written over 40 years ago - doesn't mean it is still current for today's society. The human rights laws were for a different era. Any law or treaty that remains inflexible is going to be dead in the water. It is for us already and will be for others in Europe sometime in the future.

And as I have explained .. forget it, not the thread to discuss this.

India has the same problem with the US as it has with the EU and UK - visa barriers for IT professionals. This is a bargaining chip that will eventually force India to drop it's barriers to external trade and investment.

To be fair.. the US is blocking everyone on visas, not just India. It is their paranoia from the war on terror. On the flipside, Canada, Europe and Mexico have benefited from their paranoia, since companies have moved at least part of their R&D and conferences out of the US because of not being able to get people into the US. I believe that New York has lost a couple a billion in income a year due to the visa issue.

Funny, we're not hoping the EU collapses because we recognise a major trading partner.

Could have fooled me!

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- Point is, that the big car companies could easily move their production to the continent.

Equally, if the continent was so much more attractive then why are the cars still being built here?

-- Oh they are but we both know there are other ways. Oh that land.. sure you can lease that for 1 pound the next 100 years.. no problem!

You mean it's that easy to fool the EU? (explains Greece....)

-- That was in January... it has been like that for months now.

Maybe so, but it was France that lost its last AAA credit rating (and yes, I know you LOVE credit ratings agencies)

-- Nope but clearly the most wasteful

Not really wasteful - just unused. It served purposes in other ways, primarily as a deterrent.

-- Hey not our fault that the UK does not understand that something has to be done to prevent another financial melt down.

This is my favourite line from you in 5-6 years.. what the UK does not understand is why the UK has to be targeted for something it is not part of. We paid our penalty over 20 years ago when we tried to maintain an ERM. What the EU is trying to do is penalise us for our success and take money from us to pay for its own mistakes.

 

[Andalublue]

This is my favourite line from you in 5-6 years.. what the UK does not understand is why the UK has to be targeted for something it is not part of. We paid our penalty over 20 years ago when we tried to maintain an ERM. What the EU is trying to do is penalise us for our success and take money from us to pay for its own mistakes.

I guess that explains why the UK has the third biggest debt of any EU country, including those in the Eurozone.

 

[PeteEU]

I guess that explains why the UK has the third biggest debt of any EU country, including those in the Eurozone.

SHHHHH that is a secret!

 

[PeteEU]

Equally, if the continent was so much more attractive then why are the cars still being built here?

Because it costs money to move, so any move has to be economically viable. If the UK left the EU, then suddenly there would be new barriers to export, and that would reduce those barriers massively.

You mean it's that easy to fool the EU? (explains Greece....)

It is easy to fool any government, the EU is not any different. The UK government is fooled daily by benefit cheats who get UK benefits while living and working in Spain. My point is, that to bust someone for illegal subsidies, then they either have to be so massive or someone has to complain. That a local government in the UK gives free land or local tax breaks, does not really register on the radar so to say.

Maybe so, but it was France that lost its last AAA credit rating (and yes, I know you LOVE credit ratings agencies)

you did not just throw down the credit rating company card!... Must contain my rage..... blood pressure pills.. where are they!?

Not really wasteful - just unused. It served purposes in other ways, primarily as a deterrent.

Deterrent against who? France? Germany? Afraid that Iceland might invade? I doubt that Russia will be deterred if it wanted to invade the UK.. so who exactly is it deterring? Those dirty terrorist Islamists? (yes that was sarcasm)

This is my favourite line from you in 5-6 years.. what the UK does not understand is why the UK has to be targeted for something it is not part of. We paid our penalty over 20 years ago when we tried to maintain an ERM. What the EU is trying to do is penalise us for our success and take money from us to pay for its own mistakes.

What success? You are the only major economic power to nationalize some of its biggest banks because they ****ed up. Is that success? Like it or not, this crisis is the fault of the financial sector and the UK has done nothing what so ever to set in place safe guards to prevent another meltdown. The EU wants to do that, but you are so worried about your City of London that you are brownnosing them so much that you can see the forest because all the crap in your face...!

 

[Infinite Chaos]

I guess that explains why the UK has the third biggest debt of any EU country, including those in the Eurozone.

Not really...

Government Debt in Europe - Google Public Data Explorer

There are a range of reasons why UK debt took the trajectory it did in 2007

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Because it costs money to move, so any move has to be economically viable. If the UK left the EU, then suddenly there would be new barriers to export, and that would reduce those barriers massively.

Those barriers are yet undecided. You yourself have posted that if we are to leave the EU and continue to trade with the EU, we would have to continue to work within certain EU guidelines. Why would there suddenly be export barriers?

That would be simple revenge.

-- It is easy to fool any government, the EU is not any different. The UK government is fooled daily by benefit cheats who get UK benefits while living and working in Spain. My point is, that to bust someone for illegal subsidies, then they either have to be so massive or someone has to complain. That a local government in the UK gives free land or local tax breaks, does not really register on the radar so to say.

No, you're being desperate. Benefit cheats are one thing - a very small scale.

-- you did not just throw down the credit rating company card!... Must contain my rage..... blood pressure pills.. where are they!?

Some of the agencies are Chinese and Japanese (Dagong and JCR) so your age old complaint they demonstrate UK / US favouritism doesn't hold water.

-- Deterrent against who? France? Germany? Afraid that Iceland might invade? I doubt that Russia will be deterred if it wanted to invade the UK.. so who exactly is it deterring? Those dirty terrorist Islamists? (yes that was sarcasm)

That was the case 20 years ago in the cold war. The UK nuclear deterrent wouldn't have stopped the Soviet Bloc forces by itself then either. The deterrent is part of our commitment within and to NATO and we can't keep asking the US to protect us.

- What success? You are the only major economic power to nationalize some of its biggest banks because they ****ed up. Is that success? Like it or not, this crisis is the fault of the financial sector and the UK has done nothing what so ever to set in place safe guards to prevent another meltdown. The EU wants to do that, but you are so worried about your City of London that you are brownnosing them so much that you can see the forest because all the crap in your face...!

Like it or not - the EU plans were to raise cash through hidden levies and other means on the banking sector. You keep complaining about our banking sector but the biggest banks in the city aren't even (drumroll..) British: they are German, American, Swiss etc etc. We aren't just protecting our interests but some of the same neighbours who want to steal money out of our banking system to support the Euro.

 

[PeteEU]

Those barriers are yet undecided. You yourself have posted that if we are to leave the EU and continue to trade with the EU, we would have to continue to work within certain EU guidelines. Why would there suddenly be export barriers?

That would be simple revenge.

It all comes down to how this will happen. Berlin and Paris commentators and political sources have already stated that the UK would have to leave first, and hence there would be barriers, and then negotiate new deals with the EU. What the UK wants, is to negotiate said deals before it leaves the EU. I just dont see that happening to be honest.. not in the present political climate and based on how the UK has treated the rest of Europe over the years.

No, you're being desperate. Benefit cheats are one thing - a very small scale.

Dude.. the fact that there are Brits living in Spain, but getting UK unemployment benefits... shows clearly a problem with a system. If it is so easy to cheat the UK benefits system, then that clearly shows how people can gain the system regardless of the government.

Some of the agencies are Chinese and Japanese (Dagong and JCR) so your age old complaint they demonstrate UK / US favouritism doesn't hold water.

Hardly mainstream agencies..

Like it or not - the EU plans were to raise cash through hidden levies and other means on the banking sector.

And? Dont you think that the banks should pay for their own ****-ups? Only way that happens is to have a fund that they put money in and a fund that bails them out when they do **** up.

You keep complaining about our banking sector but the biggest banks in the city aren't even (drumroll..) British: they are German, American, Swiss etc etc. We aren't just protecting our interests but some of the same neighbours who want to steal money out of our banking system to support the Euro.

And those banks would have been paying into the system regardless. No this was about protecting the city of London and British anti-EU sentiment.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

3It all comes down to how this will happen. Berlin and Paris commentators and political sources have already stated that the UK would have to leave first, and hence there would be barriers, and then negotiate new deals with the EU. What the UK wants, is to negotiate said deals before it leaves the EU. I just dont see that happening to be honest.. not in the present political climate and based on how the UK has treated the rest of Europe over the years.

Funny, you've said Berlin and Paris would gratefully kick us out (I'm more convinced France would than Germany). All they are going to gain is us staying and agitating for longer.

Beyond mere spite and scorned lover syndrome - can you explain why the EU would rather we negotiate a deal from outside? It's in all parties interests that any divorce (like with family divorce) is done on an amicable rather than hostile basis.

Dude.. the fact that there are Brits living in Spain, but getting UK unemployment benefits... shows clearly a problem with a system. If it is so easy to cheat the UK benefits system, then that clearly shows how people can gain the system regardless of the government.

I'm not disputing the cheating, I'm disputing that it's anywhere near the type of scale where a major corporation's cheating would not trigger anti-subsidy laws. Why haven't car manufacturers NOT based in the UK complained? Is it because they are getting local subsidies and don't want to draw attention?

Hardly mainstream agencies..

You'll argue black is white where credit agencies are concerned...

And? Dont you think that the banks should pay for their own ****-ups? Only way that happens is to have a fund that they put money in and a fund that bails them out when they do **** up.

And those banks would have been paying into the system regardless. No this was about protecting the city of London and British anti-EU sentiment.

Firstly yes these German, Swiss and French banks have been paying in - because they are obliged to under their home nation. Secondly, yes banks should pay for their own ****-ups but not by destroying the City of London out of EU revenge and jealousy.

 

[PeteEU]

Funny, you've said Berlin and Paris would gratefully kick us out (I'm more convinced France would than Germany).

Hmm I dont recall saying exactly that. For one Berlin and Paris would never kick the UK, since they cant.. hence it is the UK that has too leave. Plus that would be the strategically wise thing to do.

All they are going to gain is us staying and agitating for longer.

As I have said, no one is forcing the UK to do anything... want to leave... shut the door behind you please.

Beyond mere spite and scorned lover syndrome - can you explain why the EU would rather we negotiate a deal from outside? It's in all parties interests that any divorce (like with family divorce) is done on an amicable rather than hostile basis.

Because for one, there is no treaty wise possibility to do what you want. There is barely anything that states that a nation could leave the EU. The easiest and fastest way for the UK to get out, would be to just leave and then negotiate for access. That way the EU would not be burdened with the UK and the UK could get its wish faster. I could easily see negotiations the way you want.. drag on for years.

I'm not disputing the cheating, I'm disputing that it's anywhere near the type of scale where a major corporation's cheating would not trigger anti-subsidy laws. Why haven't car manufacturers NOT based in the UK complained? Is it because they are getting local subsidies and don't want to draw attention?

Pretty much. And the fact that all big business get local subsides in all countries.. it would be opening Pandora's box so to say. Look at the companies and industries that have been busted for illegal subsidies... it is often not from a complaint.. but from the EU taking interest.

Firstly yes these German, Swiss and French banks have been paying in - because they are obliged to under their home nation. Secondly, yes banks should pay for their own ****-ups but not by destroying the City of London out of EU revenge and jealousy.

This is where we have to disagree. Forcing financial institutions to pay a 2% tax/fee or whatever you call it, into a fund that will fund any bank busts is not "destroying the City of London". It is finally making the City of London and the whole financial sector across Europe accountable for their own actions instead of pushing that burden on the average citizen.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Hmm I dont recall saying exactly that. For one Berlin and Paris would never kick the UK, since they cant.. hence it is the UK that has too leave. Plus that would be the strategically wise thing to do.

You have given the impression quite often.

As I have said, no one is forcing the UK to do anything... want to leave... shut the door behind you please.

You know we have to make the best deal possible before we leave.

I could easily see negotiations the way you want.. drag on for years.

A useful ploy in the meantime.

This is where we have to disagree. Forcing financial institutions to pay a 2% tax/fee or whatever you call it, into a fund that will fund any bank busts is not "destroying the City of London". It is finally making the City of London and the whole financial sector across Europe accountable for their own actions instead of pushing that burden on the average citizen.

Trouble is, Barrosso's half baked plan would have cost others not even involved billions which is why it was opposed and defeated by more than just the UK. Sweden and other EU countries opposed the plans.