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James Madison on Government Shutdown

LowDown

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From Federalist No. 58 wherein this founding father of our federal republic foresaw government shutdown and predicted that the House would prevail:

The House of Representatives cannot only refuse, but they alone can propose, the supplies requisite for the support of government. They, in a word, hold the purse that powerful instrument by which we behold, in the history of the British Constitution, an infant and humble representation of the people gradually enlarging the sphere of its activity and importance, and finally reducing, as far as it seems to have wished, all the overgrown prerogatives of the other branches of the government. This power over the purse may, in fact, be regarded as the most complete and effectual weapon with which any constitution can arm the immediate representatives of the people, for obtaining a redress of every grievance, and for carrying into effect every just and salutary measure.

But will not the House of Representatives be as much interested as the Senate in maintaining the government in its proper functions, and will they not therefore be unwilling to stake its existence or its reputation on the pliancy of the Senate? Or, if such a trial of firmness between the two branches were hazarded, would not the one be as likely first to yield as the other? These questions will create no difficulty with those who reflect that in all cases the smaller the number, and the more permanent and conspicuous the station, of men in power, the stronger must be the interest which they will individually feel in whatever concerns the government. Those who represent the dignity of their country in the eyes of other nations, will be particularly sensible to every prospect of public danger, or of dishonorable stagnation in public affairs. To those causes we are to ascribe the continual triumph of the British House of Commons over the other branches of the government, whenever the engine of a money bill has been employed. An absolute inflexibility on the side of the latter, although it could not have failed to involve every department of the state in the general confusion, has neither been apprehended nor experienced. The utmost degree of firmness that can be displayed by the federal Senate or President, will not be more than equal to a resistance in which they will be supported by constitutional and patriotic principles.
 
72% of the population opposes shutting down the govt over defunding ACA

Health Policy

CBS News Poll. Oct. 1-2, 2013. N=1,021 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.

"Do you approve or disapprove of partially shutting down the government over differences about the 2010 health care law?"
 
gee the government is shut down, so i guess they are not trying hard enough at their job.

Their job is to look out for the people and that is what they are doing. I just found out today that I can't keep my plan at work because the company can no longer afford it, and they are forcing us to take a plan with a much higher deductible but I still don't qualify for exchange help. That is the reality of this terrible law that Obama flaunts as a masterpiece.
 
72% of the population opposes shutting down the govt over defunding ACA

Health Policy

CBS News Poll. Oct. 1-2, 2013. N=1,021 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.

"Do you approve or disapprove of partially shutting down the government over differences about the 2010 health care law?"

You mean 72% of those polled, because my guess is 72% of the population doesn't even know that the government is shut down in the first place.
 
You mean 72% of those polled, because my guess is 72% of the population doesn't even know that the government is shut down in the first place.

lol I wouldn't go that far.
 
Okay...what's the ****ing point here?

It's another silly "the Founders agree with us" thread. Which isn't really what Madison said, but that's not the point...I'm certain that if the House were Democratic and the Senate Republican, the same people would be saying "who cares about James Madison?"
 
From Federalist No. 58 wherein this founding father of our federal republic foresaw government shutdown and predicted that the House would prevail:


At the time Madison wrote No. 58, a minority political faction in the House had never forced a federal government shut down before......


"...An absolute inflexibility on the side of the latter, although it could not have failed to involve every department of the state in the general confusion, has neither been apprehended nor experienced...."


Madison also said that representatives in congress represent our dignity and reputation in the eyes of other nations. Letting the government default on paying it's bills would surely lower our standing and reputation in the world.....


"...Those who represent the dignity of their country in the eyes of other nations, will be particularly sensible to every prospect of public danger, or of dishonorable stagnation in public affairs...."


Madison goes on to say that the President and the Senate can hold the "utmost firmness" and apply "equal resistence" to the House.....


"....The utmost degree of firmness that can be displayed by the federal Senate or President, will not be more than equal to a resistance in which they will be supported by constitutional and patriotic principles...."
 
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Despite the president's attempt to harm as many as possible, does the average person even notice the government is shut down? Power went out the other day and the private sector grocery store and gas station were out for a day. I felt those effects. No food, no water (electric well-pump), no fuel. When the private sector shuts-down, one feels the pain. When the government shuts-down, do we really care?

My point is, it's the private sector that takes care of us. Let's make sure the private sector is taken care of and stop pandering to these government-types. Obama wants to harm us? Let's make sure his party suffers next election? Put some folks in who care about making it easier for the private sector to improve our lives?

.
 
At the time Madison wrote No. 58, a minority political faction in the House had never forced a federal government shut down before......


"...An absolute inflexibility on the side of the latter, although it could not have failed to involve every department of the state in the general confusion, has neither been apprehended nor experienced...."


Madison also said that representatives in congress represent our dignity and reputation in the eyes of other nations. Letting the government default on paying it's bills would surely lower our standing and reputation in the world.....


"...Those who represent the dignity of their country in the eyes of other nations, will be particularly sensible to every prospect of public danger, or of dishonorable stagnation in public affairs...."


Madison goes on to say that the President and the Senate can hold the "utmost firmness" and apply "equal resistence" to the House.....


"....The utmost degree of firmness that can be displayed by the federal Senate or President, will not be more than equal to a resistance in which they will be supported by constitutional and patriotic principles...."

So I take it you mean to say that the government is functioning as intended. :2razz:
 
Okay...what's the ****ing point here?

It's no mystery. The House has every right to do what it's doing. It was what was intended -- maintaining control of spending in order to bring the rest of government in line with the wishes of the people. Reducing "all the overgrown prerogatives of the other branches of government." So when liberals bitch and moan about the Republicans "holding government hostage" and calling them names like "terrorists" and "kidnappers" and all that silly crap they are being stupid and ignorant of the Constitution.
 
gee the government is shut down, so i guess they are not trying hard enough at their job.

Nope, it's what they are supposed to do when the government is being evil.
 
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