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Jack Straw won't risk Muslim Wrath II

Republic_Of_Public

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Perhaps still vividly recalling the mauling he received when he last hit the headlines for talking about the burka, Jack Straw toes the line this time around:

Jack Straw: No ban on burkas in Britain - UPI.com

And who says people in Labour are incapable of learning? After Home Secretary John Reid's 'disciplinary' when calling for Muslim families to be vigilant against extremists in their own families, amongst other tellings-off for people in NuLab, it's probably best for government ministers not to dabble in things which they think should concern them.

If the wearers want to look like burks (hence the garment's name), it's up to them:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD4EueFj2jg"]YouTube- Muslims - So.. This is how they eat?[/ame]


...Though I don't know why they'd want to, other than by feeling compelled to by religion or their husbands, seeing as the burka would be so constricting:

LIZ JONES: My week wearing a burka... Just a few yards of black fabric, but it felt like a prison | Mail Online
 
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mbig

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Poor Straw.
Poor Teabags.
Being utterly Buffaloed by 2% of the population.
And they're getting more bold with each fold.


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyn0ongj0F8"]YouTube- Jack Straw,muslims And Blackburn[/ame]
 
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alexa

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Perhaps still vividly recalling the mauling he received when he last hit the headlines for talking about the burka, Jack Straw toes the line this time around:

Jack Straw: No ban on burkas in Britain - UPI.com

And who says people in Labour are incapable of learning? After Home Secretary John Reid's 'disciplinary' when calling for Muslim families to be vigilant against extremists in their own families, amongst other tellings-off for people in NuLab, it's probably best for government ministers not to dabble in things which they think should concern them.

If the wearers want to look like burks (hence the garment's name), it's up to them:

YouTube- Muslims - So.. This is how they eat?


...Though I don't know why they'd want to, other than by feeling compelled to by religion or their husbands, seeing as the burka would be so constricting:

LIZ JONES: My week wearing a burka... Just a few yards of black fabric, but it felt like a prison | Mail Online

Jack Straw said that he would like women to remove their veils when they came to talk to him. He gave his reasons. This was a perfectly legitimate request stating his opinion.

There is an immense difference between saying this and banning the burka. One is stating your preference, the other is power over another to make their choices and making intrusive demands on a particular religion. It has been done before. We need not to forget but to learn from the past.

‘As I was once strolling through the inner city, I suddenly happened upon an apparition in a long caftan with black hair locks. Is this a Jew? was my first thought ... but the longer I stared ... the more my first question was transformed into a new conception: is this a German?”

That is the passage from Mein Kampf in which Adolf Hitler describes how, walking as a student through the less salubrious streets of Vienna, he had suddenly understood the true threat that the Jews presented to the Germanic way of life. I hadn’t read those words since I was a student, but somehow they returned to my mind last week, prompted by the UK Independence party’s announcement that it would campaign to “ban the burqa

Banning the burqa is simply not British | Dominic Lawson - Times Online
 

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Perhaps still vividly recalling the mauling he received when he last hit the headlines for talking about the burka, Jack Straw toes the line this time around:

Jack Straw: No ban on burkas in Britain - UPI.com

And who says people in Labour are incapable of learning? After Home Secretary John Reid's 'disciplinary' when calling for Muslim families to be vigilant against extremists in their own families, amongst other tellings-off for people in NuLab, it's probably best for government ministers not to dabble in things which they think should concern them.

If the wearers want to look like burks (hence the garment's name), it's up to them:

YouTube- Muslims - So.. This is how they eat?


...Though I don't know why they'd want to, other than by feeling compelled to by religion or their husbands, seeing as the burka would be so constricting:

LIZ JONES: My week wearing a burka... Just a few yards of black fabric, but it felt like a prison | Mail Online

And what makes you think that those women aren't wearing that garment by choice?
Is there some genetic reason why women can't be fundementally religious all by themselves?
 

Republic_Of_Public

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We Love Islam, So we wear Burqa | Sa

Barefaced delusions of Western Muslim converts lucky enough to choose can see the burka as an inverted liberation. But more traditional Islamic societies can enforce the wearing of the full Darth Vader outfit on pain of sadistic retribution.

Muslim girls robbed of their childhood; forced to wear niqab and hijab

Arab and Muslim worlds' criticism of French niqab ban is hypocritical - Blog Post

Sandt's Observations: Muslim women and burqa - not free to choose



The demented death cult of Islam instituted the covering of women to prevent the menfolk from becoming uncontrollably horny:

Niqaab in the light of Quran Niqaab in the light of Hadith



After all, the purveyors of modesty know how to treat their women. With dignity:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHyN_nhIk4A"]YouTube- Prophet Muhammad says "Kill Your Daughters"![/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb48sdvSB8I"]YouTube- Muslim Daughter Rejects Marriage, Ends Up Dead[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgXgpngHf60"]YouTube- Iranian Women Abused For Not Following "Islamic Dress Code"[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADJs3lRmot0"]YouTube- Pakistani Muslim man kills his daughter in Canada for showing skin[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjSmX5aLYLA"]YouTube- Muslim girl attempted suicide at 11 because of pedophilia.[/ame]
 

Republic_Of_Public

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SUPPLEMENTARY BACKGROUND:

Much high-handed hoo-hah is made about leaving Western Muslims alone to behave exactly as they please. Although this often means ring-fencing Muslims off from the consequences of their own actions and buying off 'community leaders' in an effort to slash the rise of 'militancy', the only real limit to bad behaviour is the planting of bombs. (Although rioting is acceptable collateral damage).



'9/11 bombers are heroes': What Muslim children told Christian teacher 'forced from his job for not tolerating racism' | Mail Online

Bus delayed after Muslim driver pulls over so he can pray in the aisle | Mail Online

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yDhMO47hrw&feature=related"]YouTube- Muslim Takes on Tesco For Not Doing His Job.[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HGzo313j80"]YouTube- Some British Teachers Drop the Holocaust to Appease Muslims[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox2-Wun2dIg&feature=related"]YouTube- Welcome to Saudi Britain[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XcSQJSOab8"]YouTube- This is what Muslim children are taught in Britain[/ame]

Dispatches - Undercover Mosque

Undercover Mosque: The Return | Free Politics Videos - Watch Politics Videos Online | Veoh

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgCvJqZL_3s"]YouTube- Labour 4 Sharia! It's EVERYBODY'S country under Labour! (demo)[/ame]

[ame=http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-6024855239894533729&ei=VPRzS-gVmJD4BoaZ0dsH&q=what+muslims+want]What Muslims Want Dispatches Channel_4_2006-08-07[/ame]



...And to think such fuss is made of the BNP! If most Muslims in Britain are indeed seamlessly integrated as some people claim, then we'd best have a mass-deportation of these other volatile troublemakers before things get even more out of hand...

Anyway, back to the burka....
 
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Alvin T. Grey

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Other than spamming the board, have you got a reason why you seem in favour of proscribing a dress code for women of a certain faith?
I ask because it seems to me that there is very little difference between those abhorring a burka and those abhorring western dress based on "principals".

If you wish to have them banned for more mundane or logical reasons, I'd go along with that.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Jack Straw said that he would like women to remove their veils when they came to talk to him. He gave his reasons. This was a perfectly legitimate request stating his opinion.

Exactly. He merely gave his opinion and still they gave him a kicking. Perhaps that was one of the reasons why the divisive Muslim Council Of Britain was allowed to pontificate to the Labour Cabinet again, after even Tony Blair found them too obnoxious and kept them away.

Labour restores relations with extremist Muslim Council of Britain in time for General Election - LeftWatch
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Other than spamming the board, have you got a reason why you seem in favour of proscribing a dress code for women of a certain faith?
I ask because it seems to me that there is very little difference between those abhorring a burka and those abhorring western dress based on "principals".

Once again I note that dissent is labelled as 'spam'. It's amusing to remember that when I derided some Leftist debating opponent with the same 'tactic' some time back he hit the roof. I appreciate the teasing value though.

Mind, I never encountered attacks on Western dress on the back of complaints from headmasters! I think you mean to use the world principles.
__________________________________

As at the very least indicated by the above, not all Muslim women, even in the West, are free to choose. They're either scared of annoying their control-freak god or enraging their even more fearsome menfolk or religious institution.

Remember the series of reformations which Christianity either suffers or enjoys? Christians are far more liberated than even 100 years back but Muslims still have their own chains to break. As with many reforms of Christianity, a good few need to be brought from on high, so that ONLY women who want to should wear them. (Though they should indeed be banned outright in places like schools, workplaces and other areas where you need open body language to communicate and not cut yourself off.)

Where the hell is the New Labour nanny state when you truly need it? It's poked its nose in too many times with the Christians, now let's see some backbone on this one...
 
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Alvin T. Grey

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Once again I note that dissent is labelled as 'spam'. It's amusing to remember that when I derided some Leftist debating opponent with the same 'tactic' some time back he hit the roof. I appreciate the teasing value though.

Mind, I never encountered attacks on Western dress on the back of complaints from headmasters! I think you mean to use the world principles.
__________________________________

As at the very least indicated by the above, not all Muslim women, even in the West, are free to choose. They're either scared of annoying their control-freak god or enraging their even more fearsome menfolk or religious institution.

Remember the series of reformations which Christianity either suffers or enjoys? Christians are far more liberated than even 100 years back but Muslims still have their own chains to break. As with many reforms of Christianity, a good few need to be brought from on high, so that ONLY women who want to should wear them. (Though they should indeed be banned outright in places like schools, workplaces and other areas where you need open body language to communicate and not cut yourself off.)

Where the hell is the New Labour nanny state when you truly need it? It's poked its nose in too many times with the Christians, now let's see some backbone on this one...
I'm referring to repeated postings from Youtube.
I'd rather hear what you have to say. Or at least from sources that are somewhat verifiable.

My point regarding the subject is that one can't prevent an enforced dress code on a minority by defacto enforcing another and especially based on principals.
 
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Republic_Of_Public

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We need not to forget but to learn from the past.


I understand your point, but the resurgent supremacist, totalitarian super-strain of Islam is totally corrosive to democracy and British identity, whilst the assimilatable and small Jewish communities are not. Indeed, this new menace is just as dangerous as the Nazism you reference, sharing many similarities, though the Muslims have fewer tanks.

Pedestrian Infidel: The Koran Versus Mein Kampf

[ame=http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=opera&rls=en&q=koran+vs+mein+kampf&btnG=Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=]koran vs mein kampf - Google Search[/ame]

[ame=http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=opera&rls=en&hs=0oY&q=islam+nazism&btnG=Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=]islam nazism - Google Search[/ame]


(Incidentally, historian Ian Kershaw says that most of Hitler's 'awakening' about the Jews came much later and was more contrived. He says that biographical passage was made up, that Hitler's best mates were Jews back then and he appreciated their help in selling his paintings.)
 
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Republic_Of_Public

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I'm referring to repeated postings from Youtube.
I'd rather hear what you have to say. Or at least from sources that are somewhat verifiable.

My point regarding the subject is that one can't prevent an enforced dress code on a minority by defacto enforcing another and especially based on principals.


It's called supplementary backup evidence! Or perhaps, for example, you don't think the good people at Channel Four are very reliable at researching and presenting their evidence?

(And as for my own stance, they can indeed be seen further in the videos PROPHET MUHAMMAD SAYS... and LABOUR 4 SHARIA.)


You mention the headmasters again. I think principles are a very good thing when not used for evil and carefully applied. And if Christians can be banned from wearing their devotional regalia in government buildings, or planes bound for Saudi Arabia, then there's no practical, commonsense reason why wearing burka can't be limited to circumstances here.
 

Alvin T. Grey

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It's called supplementary backup evidence! Or perhaps, for example, you don't think the good people at Channel Four are very reliable at researching and presenting their evidence?

(And as for my own stance, they can indeed be seen further in the videos PROPHET MUHAMMAD SAYS... and LABOUR 4 SHARIA.)


You mention the headmasters again. I think principles are a very good thing when not used for evil and carefully applied. And if Christians can be banned from wearing their devotional regalia in government buildings, or planes bound for Saudi Arabia, then there's no practical, commonsense reason why wearing burka can't be limited to circumstances here.

Your reason for curtailing wearing religious dress is?
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Because even in the West it ain't necessarily a truly free choice, plus the fact you need to see peoples' body language most of teh time.

Read the bloody 'spam' then so as not to keep asking the same question!

________________

(Incidentally, perhaps it's time to compile a glossary of Leftist Newspeak. 'Spam' is any kind of evidence or commentary you don't like, 'Tolerance' is why you ban some religious things but defend others and 'militancy' is either terrorism or violent picketting.)
 
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Alvin T. Grey

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Because even in the West it ain't necessarily a truly free choice, plus the fact you need to see peoples' body language most of teh time.
So you base your objection on "Choice"? That's nice. Except of course if you wish to wear such an article. In which case you are against that.

Got it.

Read the bloody 'spam' then so as not to keep asking the same question!
Try answering the question I ask and I won't repeat it. Until then if I want clarification, I'll ask.

________________

(Incidentally, perhaps it's time to compile a glossary of Leftist Newspeak. 'Spam' is any kind of evidence or commentary you don't like,
Spam is using a dozen link to videos when one would suffice. We have a limited time on this earth, yoou wasted your own by repeatinng the same thing in a dozen ways. I would rather not waste mine by watching them all.
'Tolerance' is why you ban some religious things but defend others and 'militancy' is either terrorism or violent picketting.)
Ok, is this relevant to anything in this thread, or is it a chip on your shoulder I'm unaware of?
 

Republic_Of_Public

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You've not quite got my meaning. But I'll leave it at that anyway, other than to say I'd allow them to wear them by pure choice and outside work, even if an employer or relevant others object at work, for which it would be left in the locker. If anyone can prove a Muslim woman is forced to wear it then the perpetrator should of course be prosecuted, same as with other matters of 'honour'.

Other issues are at stake too, as addressed in France: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...anting-settle-France-sign-burka-contract.html

You don't have to look at everything I put up. Just pick one, or none at all. (Indeed you don't even have to waste your precious time looking at my bits at all. You have a freedom of choice without pressure as well you know!)
 
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The unfortunate thing for you, dear OP, is that I have yet to see a burqa in those videos.
 

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Ok, is this relevant to anything in this thread?

Girls have been known to have been banned form wearing Christian regalia to school and air hostesses banned from flying to certain states with them. We're supposed to tolerate the religious intolerance of others, but stamp down on what's perceived as our own.

And I've heard terrorists and insurgents being called 'militants' on the news many times, despite militancy being less than the ability to blow up airports, aim bazookas or blow up US army jeeps.
 

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And I've heard terrorists and insurgents being called 'militants' on the news many times, despite militancy being less than the ability to blow up airports, aim bazookas or blow up US army jeeps.

Terrorism, insurgencies, and militants are characteristics of the dangers we face coming out of the Middle East. Although most operations we are combating are not Middle Eastern:

Most Taliban militants are fighting because they have been coerced into fighting, either through America's presence or because Mullah Umar strong armed them into action. These forces, because of their inadequate training and less than exceptional arms, tend to be drafted into suicide bombing squadrons. So in a sense they are militants, insurgents, and terrorists at once.

The calling card for post-Qutb (may he rot in hell) militancy is insurrection through obliterating the opposition, both in the civilian and military realm. Terrorism as a m.o., insurrection as a ideologue, militancy as an organization.
 

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Girls have been known to have been banned form wearing Christian regalia to school and air hostesses banned from flying to certain states with them. We're supposed to tolerate the religious intolerance of others, but stamp down on what's perceived as our own.
Erm...Yes?
That way you only have one society acting like ****ing arseholes.

And I've heard terrorists and insurgents being called 'militants' on the news many times, despite militancy being less than the ability to blow up airports, aim bazookas or blow up US army jeeps.
Militancy is any kind of physical action up to and including terrorism.:confused:
 

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I don't agree with the thread title. I think Jack Straw's decision is just another proof if needed that the UK is more tolerant than mainland Europe regarding dress codes:)
 

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There's a classic 'cup is half full' attitude for you. ;)

But I think I detect more than a touch of being fearful of any consequences at play, which is why I let myself off the leash earlier.
 
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I understand your point, but the resurgent supremacist, totalitarian super-strain of Islam is totally corrosive to democracy and British identity, whilst the assimilatable and small Jewish communities are not.

No, you don't take my point. Your above description and fear of Muslims is pretty much the same as what was described in the quote I gave. If it were Jewish people you were after right now, you would find a reason.

Indeed, this new menace is just as dangerous as the Nazism you reference, sharing many similarities.

I would agree with you that the menace of Islam haters is very similar to Nazi hate and has the potential to become as dangerous. However I trust we will have learnt enough to keep it at bay.
 

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An attempt at turning the tables... Very swish.

Or it would be if you didn't mistake my distaste for supremacist manifestations of Islam (or its tokens) as a hatred of all Muslims. I certainly hate the PC maniacs who compromise any crackdowns on Islamic extremism with a fear of what the moderate Muslims may say though, but that's certainly not illegal.
 
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