IWC withdrawal: Japan to resume commercial whaling in 2019

[Mr Person]

Calling something detestable is not an argument. You can’t provide a reason why whaling is wrong without saying all hunting or all ranching is wrong. There is nothing more wrong about killing a whale then killing a cow


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Well, except of course cow's are in no danger of extinction whereas many whale species are in trouble.

If an appeal to self-interest is required (and it seems that it is pretty much the sole requirement for many on the right), then consider the simple fact that while we don't know exactly how a given extinction will impact an ecosystem, extinctions are just about always bad for ecosystems. Effects snowball. Maybe you kill off one type of whale, which then doesn't eat a specific type of food, which then over-populates, which then affects other things, and now your favorite fish can't get enough to eat and dies off too. Etc.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

The American market gets less important all the time as the kids/grandkids/unborns credit card gets closer to being maxed out, and as The New Chinese Empire rises.

Based on population, the United States of America constitutes around 5% of the potential global market.

Based on CURRENT (well, reasonably current at any rate) percentage of global GDP, the US constitutes around 15.81% of the global market.

There really isn't anything that the US produces that some other country doesn't produce a (near) equal substitute for.

Smart marketers would go after a demographic that comprises 95% of the potential market rather than ignoring that demographic and concentrating all of their efforts on one that comprises only 5% of the potential market. Even slightly less smart marketers would see the advantage of going after the 85% demographic in stead of only the 15% one.

Let's invent a hypothetical scenario in which Adanac, Ailartsua, Aissur, Natshkazak, and Natsikebz all decide that Muinaru is an "essential national security item" and that those countries are the source of around 90% of the Muinaru that the ASU imports. What would the effect on the ASU be if those countries decided to ban exports for "national security reasons" if the ASU needed that Muinaru for essential purposes?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I bet the folks in Tokyo, Japan are surprised that Subaru isn't Japanese. Perhaps you are thinking of Hyundai?

My bad - especially in light of my knowledge that Subaru is actually produced by the direct descendents of one of the companies that provided the Japanese military with aircraft during WWII.

I need more coffee and a cigar.

 

[Into the Night]

I bet the folks in Tokyo, Japan are surprised that Subaru isn't Japanese. Perhaps you are thinking of Hyundai?

Subaru IS Japanese. Hyundai is Korean.

Both also have manufacturing plants in the United States, mostly using parts manufactured in their respective home countries. Subaru, for example, uses Hitachi electronics. Both Subaru and Hitachi are part of Fuji industries.

The logo of Subaru (the six stars) refers to the constellation we call the Seven Sisters (the Japanese use only six stars for their name of the constellation. Each star of the logo represents one of the six Japanese companies that Subaru was formed out of. The name 'Subaru' means 'unite' and is also the meaning behind this constellation in Japan.

 

[Into the Night]

i'm not surprised that you support a pointlessly cruel practice that sucks.

He is not. YOU on the other hand, are advocating piracy!

 

[PoS]

And a letter of marque is only a defense to piracy charges in the country that issued it. Japan could hang him as a pirate.

Also traditionally privateers made money by selling seized goods, where’s he gonna land to sell the whale meat he’s taken off these Japanese ships to fund his patrols?

Forget the whale meat, take the crew and ship hostage for a few million dollars in ransom money. That's what the Somalis do.

 

[Into the Night]

"sucks" in this case means that it's detestable. thanks for sharing your opinion about my ability to debate. i will place it with the rest of your comments in file 13.

Piracy is detestable. That's why it is lawful to kill a pirate.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Forget the whale meat, take the crew and ship hostage for a few million dollars in ransom money. That's what the Somalis do.

I preferred to take them to the Barbary Coast to sell them to slavery.


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[Into the Night]

i have edited my view to support sanctions on Japan for whaling instead of sinking their whaling vessels. we can help them change their "cultural tradition" without employing privateers.

Good! A far more sensible path!

 

[Into the Night]

the whale is not saved. whaling is pointless, and should be discouraged. i support sanctions.

Yup. They were saved by big oil. We don't need to hunt them for oil anymore. We drill for it instead.

 

[Into the Night]

Well, except of course cow's are in no danger of extinction whereas many whale species are in trouble.

If an appeal to self-interest is required (and it seems that it is pretty much the sole requirement for many on the right), then consider the simple fact that while we don't know exactly how a given extinction will impact an ecosystem, extinctions are just about always bad for ecosystems. Effects snowball. Maybe you kill off one type of whale, which then doesn't eat a specific type of food, which then over-populates, which then affects other things, and now your favorite fish can't get enough to eat and dies off too. Etc.

Not really. Whale populations are on the rise.

 

[HenryChinaski]

Life is fascinating.

And so are the narcotics that you seem to abuse.

 

[Into the Night]

Forget the whale meat, take the crew and ship hostage for a few million dollars in ransom money. That's what the Somalis do.

What is it with this intention of advocating piracy???

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Well, except of course cow's are in no danger of extinction whereas many whale species are in trouble.

If an appeal to self-interest is required (and it seems that it is pretty much the sole requirement for many on the right), then consider the simple fact that while we don't know exactly how a given extinction will impact an ecosystem, extinctions are just about always bad for ecosystems. Effects snowball. Maybe you kill off one type of whale, which then doesn't eat a specific type of food, which then over-populates, which then affects other things, and now your favorite fish can't get enough to eat and dies off too. Etc.

The whales will not be driven to extinction by whaling for meat in Japan and a handful of the Nordic countries so your premise is already wrong. There are many whale species, the species nearly driven to extinction were larger whales with more fat because they were making oil out of them. Meat hunters prefer Minke whales which are not in any way endangered by the level of hunting Japan wishes to conduct


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[PoS]

What is it with this intention of advocating piracy???

You obviously didnt read my previous replies. It isnt piracy when you get a letter of marque, instead its privateering. Do keep up.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You obviously didnt read my previous replies. It isnt piracy when you get a letter of marque, instead its privateering. Do keep up.

Are letters of marque even still a thing? If they were I am almost certain the US wouldn’t issue one to raid Japanese commerce considering Japan is an ally.




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[SLC]

The whales will not be driven to extinction by whaling for meat in Japan and a handful of the Nordic countries so your premise is already wrong. There are many whale species, the species nearly driven to extinction were larger whales with more fat because they were making oil out of them. Meat hunters prefer Minke whales which are not in any way endangered by the level of hunting Japan wishes to conduct


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What worries me is Japan's wiliness to cheat the system. Its open knowledge that they have been cheating under the guise of "research" for years. Yet to only research they seem to be doing was how many ways can you cook whale meat. Many whales we have today are only here because we stopped killing them. If the Japanese would limit themselves to a sustainable harvest of plentiful species that would be one thing but if they take threatened species that would be an entirely other thing. Given their past history of cheating. I don't trust them. And then there is the whole if the Japanese are hunting them then we should too , thing. If other countries follow Japan's lead the pressure on whales could be to much. Japan has over fished a lot of its traditional fishing grounds and has moved to other area of the ocean. If they do that with fishing will they do that with whaling also?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

What worries me is Japan's wiliness to cheat the system. Its open knowledge that they have been cheating under the guise of "research" for years. Yet to only research they seem to be doing was how many ways can you cook whale meat. Many whales we have today are only here because we stopped killing them. If the Japanese would limit themselves to a sustainable harvest of plentiful species that would be one thing but if they take threatened species that would be an entirely other thing. Given their past history of cheating. I don't trust them. And then there is the whole if the Japanese are hunting them then we should too , thing. If other countries follow Japan's lead the pressure on whales could be to much. Japan has over fished a lot of its traditional fishing grounds and has moved to other area of the ocean. If they do that with fishing will they do that with whaling also?

Maybe, but they will be unable to conduct any serious whaling outside their own EEZ. The US and Canada limit whaling to indigenous communities and Latin America doesn’t whale at all (and most of that coast is occupied by Chile which has a modern effective Navy and aggressively enforces their fishing zones) neither does Australia. So realistically three quarters of the Pacific Ocean are totally off limits to Japan. In that case I think the actual damage they can do is minor.

Also when whales were driven to near extinction it wasn’t because people wanted to eat then, most of the meat was thrown away, they wanted blubber which was used to make industrial lubricants and oil for lamps and greases etc. Well now all of these products are made from petroleum. Norway still whales and they have surpluses of whale meat and so arguably there simply isn’t even the demand to hunt enough whales to where this is a problem


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[Mach]

The whales they hunt have well recovered in population, properly managed whaling is perfectly fine. Hunting a whale is no more wrong then ranching cattle.

Who said ranching isn't wrong?

However, even assuming modern ranching of cattle is "acceptable", that doesn't transfer to hunting and killing whales.

Whales are some of the smartest mammals under humans, on the planet. Cows, a species domesticated for centuries, not so much.
It's believed that dolphins and by extension whales, are self-aware. They have complex social and family relationships, language, and behaviors. The idea that hunting and killing them for commercial purposes is "ethically the same" as hunting and killing cattle is based no nothing.

 

[Roadvirus]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/25/asia...ernational-whaling-commission-intl/index.html

The West's ability to bully Japan is breaking down as China asserts itself and as the West continues to break down.

Torpedo their whaling fleet.

 

[Helix]

Good! A far more sensible path!

glad that we agree on that. i do enjoy fantasizing about sinking their ****ing whaling"research" vessels. i'm not much of a privateer, however.

 

[Helix]

Yup. They were saved by big oil. We don't need to hunt them for oil anymore. We drill for it instead.

and one day, we won't need to do that, either. progress can be pretty great.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Who said ranching isn't wrong?

However, even assuming modern ranching of cattle is "acceptable", that doesn't transfer to hunting and killing whales.

Whales are some of the smartest mammals under humans, on the planet. Cows, a species domesticated for centuries, not so much.
It's believed that dolphins and by extension whales, are self-aware. They have complex social and family relationships, language, and behaviors. The idea that hunting and killing them for commercial purposes is "ethically the same" as hunting and killing cattle is based no nothing.

So in other words, it’s just as acceptable as killing cattle. Call me back when they’re equal to humans.

And yes, there is nothing wrong with killing cattle for food. God made man and beast and gave man dominion over beast.



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[EMNofSeattle]

and one day, we won't need to do that, either. progress can be pretty great.

It would not be progress to stop using oil, billions would be dead before a year.


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[AliHajiSheik]

Subaru IS Japanese. Hyundai is Korean.

Both also have manufacturing plants in the United States, mostly using parts manufactured in their respective home countries. Subaru, for example, uses Hitachi electronics. Both Subaru and Hitachi are part of Fuji industries.

The logo of Subaru (the six stars) refers to the constellation we call the Seven Sisters (the Japanese use only six stars for their name of the constellation. Each star of the logo represents one of the six Japanese companies that Subaru was formed out of. The name 'Subaru' means 'unite' and is also the meaning behind this constellation in Japan.

Perhaps you meant to post that responding to the other fellow, I'm pretty clear who Subaru is.