I've never seen it said better

[specklebang]

If you want to take issue with government numbers be my guest. I've done plenty of that myself.

OK, I will

 

[phattonez]

OK, I will

Okay, where's your evidence?

 

[specklebang]

Okay, where's your evidence?

My evidence of what? One of us is confused.

 

[poweRob]

I hate to respond to a blog post, with another blog post, but I was told to read this report on Job Creation a few days ago. It's pretty interesting stuff and kind of blends right into the subject at hand:



Source Article- On the Phenomenon of Bullsh*t Jobs

Like I said, it's a pretty interesting take-down on what jobs have been created and what jobs have been lost.

So after we cut off that leg, you know to improve unemployment, perhaps we could add another Appendix or a new set of wisdom teeth.

I doubt that automation took away as many jobs as outsourcing.

 

[phattonez]

My evidence of what? One of us is confused.

The evidence that the youth employment numbers are incorrect.

 

[phattonez]

Gallup's track of unemployment.

Gallup Daily: U.S. Employment

I'd like someone to show me the improvement there.

 

[Neomalthusian]

A big reason for work force participation dropping?

Demographics.

Baby Boomers are starting to retire. The work force will be shrinking for the next 15 years.

In case no one has pointed it out yet, retirees are not in the labor force. The Labor Force Participation Rate accounts for people between the ages of 16 and 64.

 

[Starbuck]

I doubt that automation took away as many jobs as outsourcing.

Honestly, nationally I'd still argue that mechanization has reduced the need for more jobs than outsourcing. A lot of the currently outsourced jobs are the "bullish*it" jobs referenced by the article I posted.

When you think of "real" jobs (farming, building, teaching, manufacturing) it's the mechanization that's eliminated positions.

But, as with the article. . . I don't think that's entirely a bad thing. In theory we should be able to work less hours and still enjoy the same level of productivity.

However, this hasn't happened.

 

[poweRob]

Honestly, nationally I'd still argue that mechanization has reduced the need for more jobs than outsourcing. A lot of the currently outsourced jobs are the "bullish*it" jobs referenced by the article I posted.

When you think of "real" jobs (farming, building, teaching, manufacturing) it's the mechanization that's eliminated positions.

But, as with the article. . . I don't think that's entirely a bad thing. In theory we should be able to work less hours and still enjoy the same level of productivity.

However, this hasn't happened.

Mechinization has been happening over a long period of time. We can adapt to increased automation in our jobs in that fashion. Outsourcing has been incredibly fast by comparison. Hard to adapt to that.

 

[Starbuck]

Is it even legal to hire a 15 year old? How many 15 year olds are mature enough to actually show up and work?

Officially, I started work at 13 as a caddy for a country club. I needed to get a work-permit from the school district.

When I turned 14 I got another work-permit and started working at McDonalds. It's been a few years, so I'm not sure if it's still legal for people to start work that young in Massachusetts.

In CA, our oldest child is about to turn 16 and she will be legally allowed to work at that time.

Even in the 80s and 90s, every time I hired anyone young they always let me down. So, my company policy was we hired only women and they had to be over 40, overweight and/or handicapped. So, I sure wouldn't hire a 15 year old myself.

That's a very odd hiring criteria.

 

[Starbuck]

Mechinization has been happening over a long period of time. We can adapt to increased automation in our jobs in that fashion. Outsourcing has been incredibly fast by comparison. Hard to adapt to that.

Two things:

1. Sure mechanization has been happening, ever since the invention of the wheel. However, by adaptation to mechanization why should we be looking for more work for people. Shouldn't we simply be looking for ways to shorten the work day/ week?
   
   
3. I understand that we outsource a lot of jobs, but of those our sourced jobs, which ones are ones that wouldn't be mechanized in the US?

 

[calamity]

Our drop from 8.1 to 7.3% unemployment is analogous to losing 20 pounds by cutting off your leg.

This op makes as much sense as cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[Starbuck]

I'm a big proponent of working "smarter" as opposed to working "harder."

I manage a department and am always looking for ways to give the people working for me additional time off. As a rule, I am very flexible about when they work and make sure that they have time to pursue their hobbies.

So long as the work gets done, I don't care about time off or short days.

 

[specklebang]

The evidence that the youth employment numbers are incorrect.

This is what you said: "If you want to take issue with government numbers be my guest. I've done plenty of that myself."

This is what I said: "OK, I will"

So, what am I proving - that I disagree with government numbers? Hard to prove that I'm disagreeing? How bout if I pinky swear?

 

[poweRob]

Two things:

1. Sure mechanization has been happening, ever since the invention of the wheel. However, by adaptation to mechanization why should we be looking for more work for people. Shouldn't we simply be looking for ways to shorten the work day/ week?

1. 
   
   I think you are trying to read into my position in a way that isn't there. I'm not opposed to improved mechinization. I'm for better and more efficient work.
   
   

   [*]
   [*]I understand that we outsource a lot of jobs, but of those our sourced jobs, which ones are ones that wouldn't be mechanized in the US?

I dunno... how about Call centers... what outsourced job would be mechanized if it weren't given to an Indian or Vietnamese or Chinese person?

 

[poweRob]

Two things:


Sure mechanization has been happening, ever since the invention of the wheel. However, by adaptation to mechanization why should we be looking for more work for people. Shouldn't we simply be looking for ways to shorten the work day/ week?

I think you are trying to read into my position in a way that isn't there. I'm not opposed to improved mechinization. I'm for better and more efficient work.

I understand that we outsource a lot of jobs, but of those our sourced jobs, which ones are ones that wouldn't be mechanized in the US?
[/LIST]

I dunno... how about Call centers... what outsourced job would be mechanized if it weren't given to an Indian or Vietnamese or Chinese person?

 

[specklebang]

Officially, I started work at 13 as a caddy for a country club. I needed to get a work-permit from the school district.

When I turned 14 I got another work-permit and started working at McDonalds. It's been a few years, so I'm not sure if it's still legal for people to start work that young in Massachusetts.

In CA, our oldest child is about to turn 16 and she will be legally allowed to work at that time.

That's a very odd hiring criteria.

Well, I'm not sure about todays laws. I had fake ID and I had run away from home so I had to find work and I did. But that was way before anybody could check up on you. Now, I don't know how fast your fake name and SS # will strand up to scrutiny.

What's odd about my hiring criteria? I hired people who had trouble finding work because of their appearance and they would do anything I asked of them. They adored me. Do you think that younger, prettier people would have given me the same loyalty? My theory worked out very, very well BTW. Hire those who appreciate you instead of those who don't.

 

[specklebang]

I dunno... how about Call centers... what outsourced job would be mechanized if it weren't given to an Indian or Vietnamese or Chinese person?

Sure, AIs are replacing call centers. VR systems are becoming increasingly accurate.

 

[Starbuck]

I think you are trying to read into my position in a way that isn't there. I'm not opposed to improved mechinization. I'm for better and more efficient work.

On this we agree, the main issue I see with peoples (not you, but people in general) view on employment is that they keep looking for more work. Wouldn't it be better if the U.S. or any developed country looked at mechanization as a good thing and started allowing people to work less (3 day work week for example).

I dunno... how about Call centers... what outsourced job would be mechanized if it weren't given to an Indian or Vietnamese or Chinese person?

Call centers are an example of what I would call "bullish*t" jobs.

All of the manufacturing that has been outsourced would've been/ could've been mechanized easily. Basically, we are giving jobs to people in developing nations, which would've been mechanized here.

 

[Starbuck]

What's odd about my hiring criteria? I hired people who had trouble finding work because of their appearance and they would do anything I asked of them. They adored me. Do you think that younger, prettier people would have given me the same loyalty? My theory worked out very, very well BTW. Hire those who appreciate you instead of those who don't.

I don't disagree with hiring someone who meets your criteria.

However, I don't know if makes sense to only hire people who meet that criteria, but it's you're business.

 

[specklebang]

I don't disagree with hiring someone who meets your criteria.

However, I don't know if makes sense to only hire people who meet that criteria, but it's you're business.

There is no labor shortage so being specific is not harmful or illegal. You can discriminate against young and pretty but not against old and fat. As I said, loyalty is valuable and the thought of anyone quitting filled me with dread because I had to retrain someone new.

 

[poweRob]

Sure, AIs are replacing call centers. VR systems are becoming increasingly accurate.

I'm fine with that. Bring the AI call centers back to the U.S. and let our network administrators and software engineers set them up and maintain them as well as the VR systems.

 

[specklebang]

I'm fine with that. Bring the AI call centers back to the U.S. and let our network administrators and software engineers set them up and maintain them as well as the VR systems.

I'd venture that the AI driven systems are built and operated in the US. Nice work if you can get it. The workers make 100K or more, but there aren't that many jobs.

 

[Starbuck]

There is no labor shortage so being specific is not harmful or illegal.

Being specific in the way that you specified might not be harmful, but it's definitely illegal.

Not that I'm a big proponent of laws anyway.

You can discriminate against young and pretty but not against old and fat. As I said, loyalty is valuable and the thought of anyone quitting filled me with dread because I had to retrain someone new.

I definitely agree with a want for loyalty or retention.

However, I've always found that setting preconceptions about someone based upon most criteria is illogical, but that's just my experience.

 

[poweRob]

On this we agree, the main issue I see with peoples (not you, but people in general) view on employment is that they keep looking for more work. Wouldn't it be better if the U.S. or any developed country looked at mechanization as a good thing and started allowing people to work less (3 day work week for example).




Call centers are an example of what I would call "bullish*t" jobs.

All of the manufacturing that has been outsourced would've been/ could've been mechanized easily. Basically, we are giving jobs to people in developing nations, which would've been mechanized here.

Tell me of the jobs that are outsourced that would have been easily mechanized.

Mechanized jobs need mechanics. There are still jobs there. Mechanizing beats outsourcing hands down.