Ive had it. We need to go big or go home in Ukraine against Russia

[beancounter]

A full frontal assault against Russia would start a world war, that could, if Putin gets desperate enough, lead to a nuclear war.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Sounds selfish to me but then a lot of people today are selfish and entitled.

Uh huh.

I served my country in my youth. At 64 I'd probably just get in the way.

No doubt, you would.

I am donating generously to this situation and will continue to. How about you?

I'm sitting on my ass drinking coffee, thinking about going to take a big smelly dump and a shower. Got a nice Delmonico in the fridge that Imma throw on the grill tonight, gonna be 55º here today! Spring! Looking forward to St Pats, supposed to be close to 70º, so hell I may be riding the Harley on St Patty's! It happens sometimes.
"Donating", hmmmm, well NO I'm not doing any of that, except for my governments support through taxes. Oh wait....I dont pay taxes due to a great little side hustle so I guess I'm not really donating at all. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. They'll just have to go ahead and sink or swim without me I guess.
Peeeee-you I just blew a big stinky fart! Thats nasty LOL.

OK, well you enjoy cowering in fear today, aint nobody got time for that! Enjoy pretending that you care about Ukraine, and pretending that you are "helping" to save the world. ;-)
Americans. So utterly PRICELESS.

 

[MamboDervish]

That applies to most of the free world. It's past time we stopped being held hostage to a psychopath who is also torpedoing his own country while civilians and hard fighting people of Ukraine get pulverized along with their cities.

I say it's time to issue an ultimatum to Putin. Tell him we will be sending in the stealth bombers and our superior Air Force if he doesn't withdraw. Oh the nuclear weapons? Make it clear if he attempts to use them Moscow is a glass parking lot.

Biden is too damn careful. Sometimes you need to take risks. He looks weak.

Mostly bullshit, and somewhat insane. We have no mutual defense treaty with Ukraine, and Putin has done nothing that would indicate any intention to invade any NATO country - yet. The United States would not even attack Afghanistan without the support of a "coalition of the willing", and that willing coalition is based in Western Europe. Nothing could be stupider than threatening Russia unilaterally, and our NATO partners would turn against us if we did. And well they should!

For one thing, they know there's will never be any risk of Russian tanks rolling into Bakersfield, Birmingham or Buffalo, but a real possibility of them rolling into Bucharest, Belgrade and Budapest.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Yes I'm willing to roll the dice.

Sounds extremely dumb to me, but you go on ahead and do you.
Think I'll have another cup of joe, looking to be another EXTREMELY unproductive day for me BWAHAHAHAHA. Ah well, its nice calling my own shots.

 

[MamboDervish]

You know what I mean. We are being told by Putin not to intervene militarily or else. That's being held hostage.

Putin's pompous posturing notwithstanding, we have no justification to intervene militarily!

 

[EnigmaO01]

EnigmaO01:

Did you threaten war when Russia was bombing Aleppo to rubble in Syria while killing civilians? Did you threaten mutiny when your own US-led forces killed civilians and levelled Raqqa? Are you aware that US air power devastated North Korea killing about (1.4 million souls) - 20% of the civilian population there? Do you recall the horror of the bombings of North Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos by your own government where over a million civilians died?

There is no excuse for what Russia is doing, but that does not give America licence to obliterate cities full of Russian civilians either. Find a better way.

Be well and stay alive.
Evilroddy.

Here we go again with the whataboutism. Give it a rest. Whatever the U.S. and allies die in the past does not justify the butchering of the Ukrainians by Putin. It had nothing to do with it.

I'm not advocating the obliteration of Russian cities. I'm advocating using it as an ultimatum.

 

[EnigmaO01]

Sounds extremely dumb to me, but you go on ahead and do you.
Think I'll have another cup of joe, looking to be another EXTREMELY unproductive day for me BWAHAHAHAHA. Ah well, its nice calling my own shots.

Odd you have JFK as your avatar but you don't advocate rolling the dice. That's exactly what JFK did when he confronted the Russians. Do you even know anything about JFK?

 

[tshade]

That applies to most of the free world. It's past time we stopped being held hostage to a psychopath who is also torpedoing his own country while civilians and hard fighting people of Ukraine get pulverized along with their cities.

I say it's time to issue an ultimatum to Putin. Tell him we will be sending in the stealth bombers and our superior Air Force if he doesn't withdraw. Oh the nuclear weapons? Make it clear if he attempts to use them Moscow is a glass parking lot.

Biden is too damn careful. Sometimes you need to take risks. He looks weak.

you sound a trumper------------no diplo-skills and 'want it now' mentality

 

[EnigmaO01]

you sound a trumper------------no diplo-skills and 'want it now' mentality

I can assure you I'm as far away from being a Trumper as can be.

 

[tshade]

I can assure you I'm as far away from being a Trumper as can be.

lol------except that you think like one,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yeah, right

 

[911Sparky]

We should be putting those Polish jets in the air, but no direct confrontation yet. If however, Putin uses any chemical weapons then all bets are off, we should hit him hard. As for worrying about him launching a nuke attack, he could do that anyway. If we stand and watch Ukraine fall and do nothing, what prevents Putin from demanding Alaska and Canada? If we show him we are so afraid of nukes that we give him carte blanche, it could happen.

 

[EnigmaO01]

Putin's pompous posturing notwithstanding, we have no justification to intervene militarily!

Somebody's got to do it and we can clean his clock! From what I've seen his army is a joke targeting civiilains because they can't meet their objectives.

 

[Lutherf]

We aren't "in" Ukraine so saying "Go big or go home" makes no sense.

Why issue an ultimatum? Seems that the path the world is on is working

I keep on hearing, "It's working" but that's always in terms of, "It's working for us because we aren't involved". It isn't working for the Ukrainians and it isn't working to stop Putin. What happens to, "It's working" when Russia takes Kiev? What will we all do then? Will we wag our fingers and say, "We don't formally recognize your government but we'll back off Russian sanctions as long as they don't take any more territory"?

Putin attacked Ukraine without provocation. He likely felt he could get away with that having already taken South Osetia in Georgia and Crimea in Ukraine without suffering any serious consequences. If there are no serious consequences to him taking the whole of Ukraine then will anyone stand up when he takes Moldova or Latvia? At what point do we say, "ENOUGH!"? In the mid 30s we wagged our finger at Japan as they ran roughshod across the Pacific and wagged our finger at Hitler as he ran across Europe. We didn't say "enough" until Pearl Harbor was bombed and then had to fight a war that had gone global. Why wait for that to happen again?

 

[EnigmaO01]

lol------except that you think like one,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yeah, right

I'm frustrated. That doesn't make me a Trumper.

Trump this morning says we need a president that can talk to Putin like he did. LMAO

 

[Evilroddy]

Here we go again with the whataboutism. Give it a rest. Whatever the U.S. and allies die in the past does not justify the butchering of the Ukrainians being butchered by Putin. It had nothing to do with it.

I'm not advocating the obliteration of Russian cities. I'm advocating using it as an ultimatum.

EnigmaO01:

Those who don't learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. What if President Putin calls your bluff? Ultimata often backfire. Just recall Austria-Hungary's ultimatum to Serbia in 1914 which led to the Great War (WWI). Was it rational that Serbia call the bluff of the much militarily stronger Austro-Hungarian Empire? No, but it did. There is still a Serbia but the A-H Empire is long dead and gone now.

Hubris and arrogance are a constant in war escalation. So it has been and so it might be yet (at least one more time).

Be well and stay alive.
Evilroddy.

 

[EnigmaO01]

Uh huh.


No doubt, you would.



I'm sitting on my ass drinking coffee, thinking about going to take a big smelly dump and a shower. Got a nice Delmonico in the fridge that Imma throw on the grill tonight, gonna be 55º here today! Spring! Looking forward to St Pats, supposed to be close to 70º, so hell I may be riding the Harley on St Patty's! It happens sometimes.
"Donating", hmmmm, well NO I'm not doing any of that, except for my governments support through taxes. Oh wait....I dont pay taxes due to a great little side hustle so I guess I'm not really donating at all. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. They'll just have to go ahead and sink or swim without me I guess.
Peeeee-you I just blew a big stinky fart! Thats nasty LOL.

OK, well you enjoy cowering in fear today, aint nobody got time for that! Enjoy pretending that you care about Ukraine, and pretending that you are "helping" to save the world. ;-)
Americans. So utterly PRICELESS.

Adios. Your posts are a waste of bandwidth. Vulgar in fact.

 

[oneworld2]

Yes I'm willing to roll the dice.

That's an unhinged view and indicates a wrecklessness that should be completely shunned by any sane persons

 

[Lutherf]

EnigmaO01:

Hmm. Bye, bye.

You do realise that Russia has enough nuclear weapons to wipe out America and Europe too? There are 6257 thermonuclear reasons in Russia illustrating why your's is a very bad suggestion. Image every major city in North America and Europe devastated and poisoned while China finds itself sitting in the global cat-bird seat.
No, better to find a more functional and less suicidal plan.

Be well and stay alive.
Evilroddy.

Ah yes! The old, "Better to live a slave than risk death for freedom" ideology. It's an ideology that works too because 150 years after people were willing to die fighting for freedom you can use that same mantra to say, in effect, "See, it wasn't worth it. You're still slaves and it's the other guy's fault that you're still slaves".

 

[BirdinHand]

Not for the civilians on the ground in the Ukrainian cities it's not. They are being shelled to death. We look like scared sheep while Putin has his way.

We aren't the

I keep on hearing, "It's working" but that's always in terms of, "It's working for us because we aren't involved". It isn't working for the Ukrainians and it isn't working to stop Putin. What happens to, "It's working" when Russia takes Kiev? What will we all do then? Will we wag our fingers and say, "We don't formally recognize your government but we'll back off Russian sanctions as long as they don't take any more territory"?

Putin attacked Ukraine without provocation. He likely felt he could get away with that having already taken South Osetia in Georgia and Crimea in Ukraine without suffering any serious consequences. If there are no serious consequences to him taking the whole of Ukraine then will anyone stand up when he takes Moldova or Latvia? At what point do we say, "ENOUGH!"? In the mid 30s we wagged our finger at Japan as they ran roughshod across the Pacific and wagged our finger at Hitler as he ran across Europe. We didn't say "enough" until Pearl Harbor was bombed and then had to fight a war that had gone global. Why wait for that to happen again?

why would the world cease sanctions if Putin sets up a puppet regime?

Sanctions stay until a full withdrawl and reparations.

But no, no military intervention.

 

[Integrityrespec]

That applies to most of the free world. It's past time we stopped being held hostage to a psychopath who is also torpedoing his own country while civilians and hard fighting people of Ukraine get pulverized along with their cities.

I say it's time to issue an ultimatum to Putin. Tell him we will be sending in the stealth bombers and our superior Air Force if he doesn't withdraw. Oh the nuclear weapons? Make it clear if he attempts to use them Moscow is a glass parking lot.

Biden is too damn careful. Sometimes you need to take risks. He looks weak.

Careful? That's a very generous assumption. I'd say incompetent, inept, ignorant, indecisive, afraid, incapable of making wise decisions, just plain stupid. We are claiming to support Ukraine yet we are sitting in a negotiation with Iran for a new JCPOA deal. Yet, we have the Russians doing the negotiating for us. We are not even actually in the room with the Iran negotiators, the Russians are. We pass notes back and forth. We are gettng nothing out of the deal. Nothing but some oil we will purchase. Iran still keeps it's nuclear capabilities it currently has, they will still be able to get a nuke, we are going to free up hundreds of millions $ to Iran. It's insane. It's Biden and his people being remarkably inept. Biden's not protecting America or our allies, he is kneeling to Putin, Xi, the Ayatollah and anyone else who is strong willed.

 

[Evilroddy]

We should be putting those Polish jets in the air, but no direct confrontation yet. If however, Putin uses any chemical weapons then all bets are off, we should hit him hard. As for worrying about him launching a nuke attack, he could do that anyway. If we stand and watch Ukraine fall and do nothing, what prevents Putin from demanding Alaska and Canada? If we show him we are so afraid of nukes that we give him carte blanche, it could happen.

911Sparky:

As a Canadian, I'm willing to risk it. Russia's invasion of Ukraine is bogging down after advances less than 150 km. A transpolar invasion seems very unlikely to succeed and in war, we Canadians have had a bad historical habit of becoming politely psychotic.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[911Sparky]

EnigmaO01:

Those who don't learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. What if President Putin calls your bluff? Ultimata often backfire. Just recall Austria-Hungary's ultimatum to Serbia in 1914 which led to the Great War (WWI). Was it rational that Serbia call the bluff of the much militarily stronger Austro-Hungarian Empire? No, but it did. There is still a Serbia but the A-H Empire is long dead and gone now.

Hubris and arrogance are a constant in war escalation. So it has been and so it might be yet (at least one more time).

Be well and stay alive.
Evilroddy.

Evilroddy,
The flip side of that failure to learn history is Chamberlain giving an inch to Hitler, who then took another mile, which led to WWll. I am not a warmonger by any means, but Putin must be stopped, I'm hoping his own general's will do the deed, but not optimistic.

 

[EnigmaO01]

EnigmaO01:

Those who don't learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. What if President Putin calls your bluff? Ultimata often backfire. Just recall Austria-Hungary's ultimatum to Serbia in 1914 which led to the Great War (WWI). Was it rational that Serbia call the bluff of the much militarily stronger Austro-Hungarian Empire? No, but it did. There is still a Serbia but the A-H Empire is long dead and gone now.

Hubris and arrogance are a constant in war escalation. So it has been and so it might be yet (at least one more time).

Be well and stay alive.
Evilroddy.

You're comparing 1914 to 2022. Seriously? Before the advent of nuclear weapons? Whole different ball game today vs. 1914.

There is a lesson to learn in regards to nuclear weapons. That was Kennedy's ultimatum to Khrushchev when he planted nuclear missiles on our doorstep. The Soviet Union backed down.

 

[phoenix2020]

This thread reeks of a “we have the power to deter Putin” attitude that is not earned because we don’t. Until we find a way to convince China that the ongoing war is against their interest, China will have Putin’s back and Putin will not waver. So, our attention should lie there.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: if China exerted it’s full economic weight on this issue, the war would be over in less than 12 hours.

China Sees at Least One Winner Emerging From Ukraine War: China

The country’s leaders think it can shield itself from economic and diplomatic fallout and eventually be seen as a pillar of stability.

www.nytimes.com

 

[EnigmaO01]

911Sparky:

As a Canadian, I'm willing to risk it. Russia's invasion of Ukraine is bogging down after advances less than 150 km. A transpolar invasion seems very unlikely to succeed and in war, we Canadians have had a bad historical habit of becoming politely psychotic.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

That is your purgative and I respect that. I am expressing my opinion and don't mind debate on this. I like the fact that you aren't disrespectful in your debate unlike some others here. It's almost as if they think I have some kind of power to get WWIII going. I obviously don't.

Additionally the other thread on Ukraine IMHO is so long it's hard to keep track anymore.