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It's not the Spanish cucumbers killing Germans

ludahai

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The situation in northern Germany doesn't seem to be getting any better if this article from the AP is to be believed...

Hamburg is the epicenter of the deadliest E. coli outbreak in modern history, which has killed at least 18 people since May 2. More than 1,700 people in Germany have been infected, including 520 suffering from a life-threatening complication that can cause kidney failure. Ten other European nations and the U.S. have reported 90 other cases, all but two related to visits in northern Germany.

If more than 500 are still suffering life-threatening complications from this bug, that '18' number will sadly rise in the coming days...

One E. coli survivor, 41-year-old Nicoletta Pabst, told The Associated Press that sanitary conditions at the Hamburg-Eppendorf hospital were horrendous when she arrived with cramps and bloody diarrhea. She said at least 20 others had a similar condition in the emergency room.

"All of us had diarrhea and there was only one bathroom each for men and women — it was a complete mess," she said. "If I hadn't been sick with E. coli by then, I probably would have picked it up over there."

After waiting three hours to be seen, Pabst was told to go home because her blood levels did not indicate that she had kidney failure. She had to return by ambulance the next morning and was hospitalized for a week at a different hospital.

European socialized medicine at work???

This outbreak appears really bad. Of course, on the one hand we can blame industrial food production, however, with an increasing global food shortage, we are reliant on mass food production and not everyone (espcially those in urban areas) can grow their own food... :( :( :(
 

American

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PeteEU

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The situation in northern Germany doesn't seem to be getting any better if this article from the AP is to be believed...

Well depends on what you mean by not getting any better. There is an incubation period for this bug and that has now been reached pretty much. The real question is if new cases are rising or falling, and from what I understand from the media in Europe, they are falling.

And the AP article is wrong some what.. it is not Hamburg that is now suspected but Lubeck and specifically one restaurant and its suppliers.

If more than 500 are still suffering life-threatening complications from this bug, that '18' number will sadly rise in the coming days...

Will it rise? Depends on who is infected. Chances are that there will be more deaths because of the number of infected, but lets hope not.

European socialized medicine at work???

No, a new variant of the bug. Normally ecoli infections do NOT hit the kidney and cause kidney failures.

As for the complaint of the sanitary conditions.. she explains it very well.. 20 people+ puking and ****ting all over the place does not create sanitary conditions anywhere. Add to that the usual emergency room traffic and then yes sanitary conditions would be questionable.

This outbreak appears really bad.

It is bad because it is very uncommon in Europe. It is even more bad because how different this strain is from more traditional strains and how much more deadly it is.. aka it causes kidney failure.

Of course, on the one hand we can blame industrial food production, however, with an increasing global food shortage, we are reliant on mass food production and not everyone (espcially those in urban areas) can grow their own food... :( :( :(

Well there is safe industrial food production and then there is less than safe.. all depends on the morals of the growers and sellers and how much regulation there is to keep the industry in check. And like it or not, accidents do happen.
 

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It always real simple with Pete.

Europe = good
US = sucks

So you would rather go after people that actually debate the issue eh? Why are you not shocked over the amount of ecoli outbreaks in the US the last decade? Or dont you care about the food you eat? And why do you always have to make it a US vs Europe attack bs instead of sticking to the facts of each case?
 

Andalublue

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So no pork? I couldn't imagine life without pork...

I'd probably starve to death here if I didn't eat pork. Every time I go to Turkey (usually about once a year) I get half-a-dozen requests from Turkish friends asking me to bring Serrano ham, morcilla blood sausage and chorizo sausages. Oh, and Spanish brandy.
 

ludahai

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Well depends on what you mean by not getting any better. There is an incubation period for this bug and that has now been reached pretty much. The real question is if new cases are rising or falling, and from what I understand from the media in Europe, they are falling.

And the AP article is wrong some what.. it is not Hamburg that is now suspected but Lubeck and specifically one restaurant and its suppliers.

Wrong, or out of date. Hard to tell sometimes...


Will it rise? Depends on who is infected. Chances are that there will be more deaths because of the number of infected, but lets hope not.

We all hope it doesn't rise. Just being realistic...


No, a new variant of the bug. Normally ecoli infections do NOT hit the kidney and cause kidney failures.

But it just seems the hospitals are overwhelmed by what is not that large a number of cases. How would they handle a real large, widespread emergency if they are having such problems with this? Germans (and everyone else) should consider the implications of a major disease outbreak or terror attack. In Taiwan, we have had two major disease outbreaks in the past decade (from imported sources) and our response the second time was much better than the first because we learned from the mistakes the first time around... Hope the Germans do the same here...

As for the complaint of the sanitary conditions.. she explains it very well.. 20 people+ puking and ****ting all over the place does not create sanitary conditions anywhere. Add to that the usual emergency room traffic and then yes sanitary conditions would be questionable.

See above. Agree to some extent, but 20 isn't that large a number. What if there were a far more widespread problem???


It is bad because it is very uncommon in Europe. It is even more bad because how different this strain is from more traditional strains and how much more deadly it is.. aka it causes kidney failure.

Nasty strain, no doubt...


Well there is safe industrial food production and then there is less than safe.. all depends on the morals of the growers and sellers and how much regulation there is to keep the industry in check. And like it or not, accidents do happen.

Accidents do happen. We are human and thus are fallible.

You know I am not anti-Europe despite my conservative bent, but your anti-US comments are sometimes grating...
 

ludahai

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I'd probably starve to death here if I didn't eat pork. Every time I go to Turkey (usually about once a year) I get half-a-dozen requests from Turkish friends asking me to bring Serrano ham, morcilla blood sausage and chorizo sausages. Oh, and Spanish brandy.

Yumm... sounds good... perhaps i would bring you some delicious Taiwanese sausage were I to visit your neck of the woods sometime... :)
 

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Once in history organic agriculture kills a couple people, and that makes chemicals safe. I wonder if you have any idea how many people agro-chemicals have killed. Further, we should consider social and ecologic impacts - not just personal.
I am not one that much cares for organic foods but, I do haul chemicals for the agriculture and diary industry and also other food industries. I can say this with 100 percent assuredness, the chemicals in it's pure or unmixed state can kill you in short order or severely damage you health wise. We had one driver who was accidently exposed to a commercial ammonia solution and now after three years he is fighting for his life. These chemical are extremely dangerous and great care has to be taken when handling it, that said, I do understand that these procedures are required to feed vast amounts of people.
 

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Source of the out break is German grown bean-sprouts. That explains why so many women and especially young women have been hit.
 

Grant

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1. Your posting record says otherwise; you can't keep away from this forum.
2. Great, there is this option - Canada to which you have not made a single post.

We know that you prefer to troll the Europe forum despite your mock indignation at the suggestion.

I sometimes post on Canadian boards or submit Letters to the Editor while in Canada where it can have more effect. In fact, in no small part as a result of my efforts, Canada is doing very well.

I have looked at the board here occasionally but haven't found it at all interesting.

But thanks for the heads up!
 

Grant

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As response to the bold part.. no. It is because of different and higher health and safety standards for foods. That is just a fact, and it is up to you to twist that fact into whatever anti-European attack you want, but I refuse to get dragged into a "We are better than them" debate when the facts are the facts. On average there are 2 ecoli outbreaks every year in the US, where as in Europe there are rarely any. Read the following link for the official "outbreaks" in the US. On top of that there are of course local cases.

Outbreak Investigations | CDC E. coli

Western Europeans are toppling over dead after enjoying their veggies and yet the safety and health standards are higher?

Well, if you say so, PeteEU.
 

Grant

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It always real simple with Pete.

Europe = good
US = sucks

They have posters and billboards everywhere, throughout the streets of Europe, saying the same thing.

I feel confident Pete has one on his bedroom ceiling.
 

Dittohead not!

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Bean sprouts do not kill people.

Bean sprouts do not kill people. People kill people. They'll pry my bean sprouts...

Oh, just went off on another issue temporarily.

Bean sprouts don't kill people, but new and more virulent strains of E. Coli do. How do we know it's bean sprouts?
 

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Manc Skipper

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If the Telegraph isn't rightwing enough, Sky news is Fox's British cousin.

"German-grown beansprouts are the likely cause of the E.coli outbreak, say health authorities investigating the crisis.

A spokesman for the agriculture ministry in Germany's Lower Saxony state said people should stay away from eating the beansprouts, which are often used in mixed salads.
The new lead on the outbreak comes as the death toll in Europe increased to 22... "

E.coli Outbreak: German Beansprouts Are The Likely Cause Of E.coli Outbreak | World News | Sky News
 

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Source of the out break is German grown bean-sprouts. That explains why so many women and especially young women have been hit.

This just adds extra weight to a huge compensation claim from Spanish farmers after spanish vegetables were blamed as the source of this new disease.
 

Grant

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If the Telegraph isn't rightwing enough, Sky news is Fox's British cousin.

"German-grown beansprouts are the likely cause of the E.coli outbreak, say health authorities investigating the crisis.

A spokesman for the agriculture ministry in Germany's Lower Saxony state said people should stay away from eating the beansprouts, which are often used in mixed salads.
The new lead on the outbreak comes as the death toll in Europe increased to 22... "

E.coli Outbreak: German Beansprouts Are The Likely Cause Of E.coli Outbreak | World News | Sky News

Right.

E.Coli kills people. Now the source of that E.Coli has to be discovered.

From what has happened in the past, animal waste is most likely.
 
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Andalublue

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This just adds extra weight to a huge compensation claim from Spanish farmers after spanish vegetables were blamed as the source of this new disease.

I hope it is a huge compensation claim. I know of one smallish fruit and veg co-op in El Ejido (centre of the Spanish market-garden industry) that has already laid-off 150 workers, as if things weren't bad enough here already.
 

ludahai

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What are EU rules on claims of this nature that hurt Spanish farmers? What if it can't be proven that the claims were malicious? Does EU law permit compensation without proof of maliciousness in making such false statements???
 
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