• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

It's Not NATO That Worries Putin

Rogue Valley

Putin = War Criminal
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
81,523
Reaction score
66,475
Location
Barsoom
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent

putin.jpg


The issue of Ukraine joining NATO is a smokescreen. What keeps Putin awake at night is not the European or American military, it’s democratic ideas infecting Russia. It’s not missiles and tanks on his borders, it’s the thought of a democratic Ukraine and Belarus on Russia’s borders. It’s why Russian troops invaded Belarus when Putin’s autocratic stooge was threatened by democratic activists and mass demonstrations. Putin is the Capo of a kleptocracy that rules Russia with an iron fist and is making billions from having total control over the countries economy and resources. It’s as if a Mafia crime family took over a country. The biggest threat to Putin and his thugs is not an invasion from the West, it's from Russian citizens demanding democracy and an end to corruption. He needs a buffer of puppet autocrats that will keep liberal democratic values far away from Russians. Having former Soviet Republics becoming successful transparent democracies right on Russias doorstep is intolerable to Putin. Combine this with Putin’s determination to reclaim the Soviet and old Czarist empire's sphere of influence in Central Asia and Eastern Europe with himself as a modern Ivan the Terrible at its head and you realize it's not about Russian ‘security’ concerns. The security concerns Putin has are securing his criminal enterprise's grip on power and to keep the cash flowing into the oligarch's pockets.

For Putin, democratic ideas are more of a threat than the NATO military. Putin’s goal in Ukraine is to cause enough pressure and instability so that he can eventually do what he has done in Belarus and Chechnya. Have a puppet autocrat running the country and brutally suppressing any democratic activist or movements. He has no intention of stopping until he reaches his goals. The US and Europe are — just as in Soviet times — his ideological enemies. He is at war with the ideas of liberal democracy as they are fatal to his survival and are the biggest internal threat to his regime. He has worked to sabotage democracy in the US and Europe and he is determined to destroy it in Ukraine. Occupying the country would take a million troops and money he doesn’t have. I think his hope is to eventually bring about the fall of the current government and replace it with Russian stooges. Appeasing Putin won’t put a stop to his plan to make Ukraine a client state. He is a thug and a bully and sees the West as weak and easily intimidated. Biden I think has done well as is possible with a bad situation. NATO is reborn and Putin has supplied the needed boogeyman to bring the alliance together. I don’t think Putin thought that would happen. If the West can ensure that Ukrainian democracy can survive the coming Russian incursion and NATO is now back in action, that would be a really bad outcome for Putin.

Amen.

A crucial component of Putin's rapid rise to power.....

 

Phys251

Purge evil with Justice
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
52,398
Reaction score
36,984
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal

putin.jpg




Amen.

A crucial component of Putin's rapid rise to power.....


There can never be stable democracy in Eastern Europe as long as Putin is in power.
 

Nilhus

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 7, 2019
Messages
617
Reaction score
127
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
This is precisely the kind of propaganda that CIA would like to spread!

No one genuinely give a shit about democracy! Democracy is just a smokescreen for the masses of the stupid. Administration after administration, politics remain roughly the same in Washington. Why? Because the real power is being held by others, that are not elected. The elected ones are just front puppets. Besides, the US has a long history of good collaboration with all kinds of dictators - up to present day(like Kashoggi killers & more) - which nullifies any suggestion that it would care about democracy.

In the end it's all about power, military power. It's about NATO expansion and weaponry placed closer and closer to the heart of Russia. That's what the US seeks to do(and has done so ever since the creation of NATO), that's what Russia wants to prevent! Period! The rest is cheap demagoguery!
 

CaughtInThe

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
80,287
Reaction score
63,156
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I wonder which humans Putin has now put his latest hits out on.
 

Rexedgar

Yo-Semite!
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
50,815
Reaction score
38,188
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
By what authority does Putin “recognize” the two separatist enclaves?
 

slick

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Messages
7,042
Reaction score
2,247
Location
Nassau County, Long Island
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
By what authority does Putin “recognize” the two separatist enclaves?
Almost half the citizens in what is now Ukraine are Slavic, tied to Russia by culture. The anti-Russian element or Nationalists not surprisingly come from the Lviv area formerly a part of Poland & Lithuania. Eastern Ukrainians for a long time consider themselves Russian & speak Russian & the area currently under Rebel control is most entirely Russia.

The Maidan revolution which bought about the coup of the elected president was about
bringing democracy to Ukraine...or something. Right? No way, what it did was alienate the people
of Donetsk and Lugansk who, having a president THEY voted for, rather thought Ukraine had a democracy already.

In the last legitimate Ukie election the following Provinces voted accordingly:
Crimea Yanukovich 78.24% Tymoshenko 17.31%
Donetsk region Yanukovich 90.44% Tymoshenko 6.45%
Luhansk region Yanukovich 88.96% Tymoshenko 7.72%

Trying tp pretend that the Donbass should remain Ukrainian is like the Syrians will soon get back to Golan Heights

Their president was removed - replaced with an interim president who tried to ban their language
and appointed billionaire governors of the eastern regions without elections and then burned alive
the people of Odessa who protested. East Ukraine, at this point, got it's taste of the new
"Ukrainian democracy' and found they did not care for it.

I can't see why the US & Europe are making a stand declaring the 2 provinces should remain Ukraine territory
who have no allegiance at all to the new Ukraine.
to the quasi government in Kiev or Lviv
 
Top Bottom