It's not about the war anymore... it's about lying.

[MSgt]

Hahaha. How sad. Try to rise above adolescent naivete. A reason given for the Iraq war was WMD. There were other reasons given also.

A reason not given is that we need to spark a democratic change within a failing civilization that continues to produce adherents to Radical Extremism on a massive scale from a multiple of Muslim countries. This reason was the real reason underneath the reasons given.

 

[cnredd]

NOT ABOUT WMD'S HUH? WELL, WELL! READ IT AND WEEP!

NOT ABOUT WMD'S HUH?

Nobody said it wasn't about WMDs...We're saying that it wasn't JUST about WMDs...

Disregarding multiple reasons while focusing on one issue is terribly weak and shows your narrow-mindedness...

Maybe you should give us your opinions on every other part of the House resolution that doesn't deal with WMDs...

I have a feeling the next time you address them will also be your first...

 

[MSgt]

Nobody said it wasn't about WMDs...We're saying that it wasn't JUST about WMDs...

Disregarding multiple reasons while focusing on one issue is terribly weak and shows your narrow-mindedness...

Maybe you should give us your opinions on every other part of the House resolution that doesn't deal with WMDs...

I have a feeling the next time you address them will also be your first...

I doubt he'll address them at all. His posts are routinely about bashing and criticisms. Hey..much like the Democratic Party for the last four years.

 

[KidRocks]

Hahaha. How sad. Try to rise above adolescent naivete. A reason given for the Iraq war was WMD. There were other reasons given also.

A reason not given is that we need to spark a democratic change within a failing civilization that continues to produce adherents to Radical Extremism on a massive scale from a multiple of Muslim countries. This reason was the real reason underneath the reasons given.

AHA!

Now I've heard it all... LOL

This reason was the real reason underneath the reasons given.

Sort of like the definition of "is", is!

This is just another case of "I voted for the war before I voted against the war."

LOL... and I love it!

 

[MSgt]

AHA!

Now I've heard it all... LOL




Sort of like the definition of "is", is!

This is just another case of "I voted for the war before I voted against the war."

LOL... and I love it!

Yes...it would be more of that intel, analysis, reports, and books that have been studied, written, and conducted since the Reagan era from a multiple of nations regarding the Middle East and its civilization. It's not my fault America is full of ignorance that needs television and politicians to present to them their reality and if they aren't fully exposed through this medium..they were "lied to.":roll:

 

[aps]

AHA!

Now I've heard it all... LOL




Sort of like the definition of "is", is!

This is just another case of "I voted for the war before I voted against the war."

LOL... and I love it!

Good for you in posting Powell's speech. Don't forget this one by Bush in October 2002, which is all about WMDs and how we can't wait for the "smoking gun" of a "mushroom cloud": http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021007-8.html

 

[MSgt]

Good for you in posting Powell's speech. Don't forget this one by Bush in October 2002, which is all about WMDs and how we can't wait for the "smoking gun" of a "mushroom cloud": http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021007-8.html

Like I said...it got us there for bigger issues. We can't just invade Saudi, Iran, or Syria. Saddam presented us two seperate occasions for an interdiction in to the Middle East to establish a democracy, which is the cure aginst wide sweeping Islamic Extremism across the region. We failed to act the first time out of political pressure.

 

[aps]

Like I said...it got us there for bigger issues. We can't just invade Saudi, Iran, or Syria. Saddam presented us two seperate occasions for an interdiction in to the Middle East to establish a democracy, which is the cure aginst wide sweeping Islamic Extremism across the region. We failed to act the first time out of political pressure.

I do see what you man, GySgt. What I personally see is that Bush got us in there on scare tactics. They made it seem as though we could be attacked any day. We know that's not true. But it worked, which is infuriating to me. It would be one thing if Bush promoted the spreading of democracy, but he KNEW that such would not get us into Iraq. So he used the scare tactics and said that Iraq was no different than the 9-11 terrorists, which made people think about that horrific day in 2001.

 

[MSgt]

I do see what you man, GySgt. What I personally see is that Bush got us in there on scare tactics. They made it seem as though we could be attacked any day. We know that's not true. But it worked, which is infuriating to me. It would be one thing if Bush promoted the spreading of democracy, but he KNEW that such would not get us into Iraq. So he used the scare tactics and said that Iraq was no different than the 9-11 terrorists, which made people think about that horrific day in 2001.

This is a healthy way of saying it. Where I suspected that their was a WMD program in Iraq, because the intel did suggest it and some is unaccounted for, I was not surprised with what we found, because I had done all of this study before hand. I knew of the bigger picture regarding the Middle East and from the briefings, I knew this was a way into the heart of this region.

With regards to dealing with a failing civilization where one country offers us needed oil interests and another is developing nukes and determined to destroy a neighboring country and publicly promoting violence ....being "diplomatic" is more important than blatantly smearing this civilizations social failures in their facees before embarking on a progressive and necessary change in what has become their culture. Most of what is necessary is going to be "indirect" which means not in the publics attention. This also means that when uncovered, "lying" and "deceit" will be the words of choice for opposing Political Parties and media outlets. We have to support the moderate Muslims "indirectly" all over the world. This means a lot of things kept from the general public.

 

[KidRocks]

Nobody said it wasn't about WMDs...We're saying that it wasn't JUST about WMDs...

Disregarding multiple reasons while focusing on one issue is terribly weak and shows your narrow-mindedness...

Maybe you should give us your opinions on every other part of the House resolution that doesn't deal with WMDs...

I have a feeling the next time you address them will also be your first...

And I have never denied that Saddam had WMDs, he did, once upon a time, (see picture of Rumsfeld and Saddam shaking hands) after all, Ronald Reagan personaly supplied Iraq with them in his deal with Saddam against Iran.

But that was decades ago.

In fact, Reagan watched while Saddam gassed his own people.

 

[MSgt]

And I have never denied that Saddam had WMDs, he did, once upon a time, (see picture of Rumsfeld and Saddam shaking hands) after all, Ronald Reagan personaly supplied Iraq with them in his deal with Saddam against Iran.

But that was decades ago.

In fact, Reagan watched while Saddam gassed his own people.

Not to mention that we supported the U.S.S.R. during the Cold War. After all we allied with Communism to save Europe once. How droll.

You failed to mention how Clinton offerred us a false peace as we ignored every terror attack on our people for 8 years for the sake of his polls. Or is your simple agenda to bash the Republican Presidents only? See, I'll say that Reagan, Bush Sr., and Clinton ignored the intel about the failing civilizatoin in the Middle East, because they didn't know how to face it. Bush Jr. would have ignored it also were it not for 9/11 forcing him to acknowledge two decades of study. With this..I've encompassed both political Parties. This is how it is done.

By the way..why don't you address the other reasons for Iraq?

 

[Middleground]

Trajan, you cite 23 different reasons for invading Iraq. That said, can you HONESTLY deny that if all Americans were polled today with the question "Why did America invade Iraq?", most would answer "Because Saddam had WMDs."? You have to admit that that was the card the the Bush Administration played leading up to the war. And, oh yeah, Saddam is a bad, bad man. :roll:

Do you honestly think the following would of successfully convinced Americans -- in the wake of 9/11 -- that going into Iraq was a necessecity?:

Whereas Iraq persists in violating resolution of the United Nations Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population thereby threatening international peace and security in the region, by refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq, including an American serviceman, and by failing to return property wrongfully seized by Iraq from Kuwait;

And, BTW, I read those stipulations. Don't they all pretty much sound the same?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

And I have never denied that Saddam had WMDs, he did, once upon a time, (see picture of Rumsfeld and Saddam shaking hands) after all, Ronald Reagan personaly supplied Iraq with them in his deal with Saddam against Iran.

But that was decades ago.

In fact, Reagan watched while Saddam gassed his own people.

That's a total lie we supplied 1/2 of 1% of weapons supplies to Saddam during the Iran-Iraq conflict, France and the Soviets gave him the most stuff why do you think we were hitting t-32's and MIGs instead of M-1's and F-16's

The viruses we gave him were for leggitimate vaccine research and the chemicals that were sent were things that you can find at the local super save IE you take ammonia and mix it with chlorine and you got yourself mustard gas, there's your WMD we supplied to Iraq **** by that standard the pinch a penny pool distributor supplies me with WMD every other week.

This whole we supplied Saddam with WMD myth is bogus and a flagrant stretch of the truth in a true Chomskyite fashion.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Trajan, you cite 23 different reasons for invading Iraq. That said, can you HONESTLY deny that if all Americans were polled today with the question "Why did America invade Iraq?", most would answer "Because Saddam had WMDs."? You have to admit that that was the card the the Bush Administration played leading up to the war. And, oh yeah, Saddam is a bad, bad man. :roll:

Do you honestly think the following would of successfully convinced Americans -- in the wake of 9/11 -- that going into Iraq was a necessecity?:

Whereas Iraq persists in violating resolution of the United Nations Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population thereby threatening international peace and security in the region, by refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq, including an American serviceman, and by failing to return property wrongfully seized by Iraq from Kuwait;

And, BTW, I read those stipulations. Don't they all pretty much sound the same?

Dude what are you talking about since when is the power to declare war put to a vote by the people, those were the reasons given by congress in the joint resolution of congress on Oct. 22, 2002 and the last time I checked it's congress's job to vote for war.

 

[Middleground]

Dude what are you talking about since when is the power to declare war put to a vote by the people, those were the reasons given by congress in the joint resolution of congress on Oct. 22, 2002 and the last time I checked it's congress's job to vote for war.

Ah, chick, no kidding. Unfortunately, it really wasn't my point.

Let me throw this at ya. Could the Bush Administration have sold the Iraq war to the American people and Congress with the humanitarian angle (especially after 9/11)? As you say, heck they can do anything they want, but in a democracy such as the US, aren't elected officials representatives of the people?

I really hope you thoroughly think this over without any knee-jerking retorts.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Ah, chick, no kidding. Unfortunately, it really wasn't my point.

Let me throw this at ya. Could the Bush Administration have sold the Iraq war to the American people and Congress with the humanitarian angle (especially after 9/11)? As you say, heck they can do anything they want, but in a democracy such as the US, aren't elected officials representatives of the people?

I really hope you thoroughly think this over without any knee-jerking retorts.

First off I'm not going down the slippery slope based on the false premise that they sold the war to anyone the congress had the intelligence, they reviewed the intelligence, and they came to the same conclusion as the president; furthermore, one of the reasons stipulated for the war was the brutal repression of the Iraqi people, what don't you understand about that? It's in the Joint Resolution passed by Congress for Christ's sakes what you knew or did not know bears no relavance it's what congress knew and thought that matters they're the ones who voted for the use of force against Iraq and as for a representative government you're exactly correct we elect our congress and president to make the judgements they deem to be correct that's their job if you want an absolutist Democracy well I can't help you there, you seem to think that there should be a direct vote for all the issues that's not a representative Democracy that's a direct Democracy and mob rule.

 

[Vandeervecken]

you take ammonia and mix it with chlorine and you got yourself mustard gas, there's your WMD we supplied to Iraq

No you will not get mustard gas. You will get Chlorine gas, also used as a deadly weapon.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

No you will not get mustard gas. You will get Chlorine gas, also used as a deadly weapon.

fair enough but mustard gas can be just as easily made as chlorine gas the ingredients aren't hard to come.

 

[Vandeervecken]

fair enough but mustard gas can be just as easily made as chlorine gas the ingredients aren't hard to come.

Mustard Gas is harder than chlorine.

Skills required:

Make kool aid: If you can make kool-aid you can make Chlorine gas.

Make a cake via mix: If you cna do that, you can make phosgene.

Make a cake from scratch: If you can do this, you can make Mustard Gas.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Mustard Gas is harder than chlorine.

Skills required:

Make kool aid: If you can make kool-aid you can make Chlorine gas.

Make a cake via mix: If you cna do that, you can make phosgene.

Make a cake from scratch: If you can do this, you can make Mustard Gas.

The whole point is that the U.S. didn't give Saddam WMD we sold him chemicals for legitimate purposes and he turned them into WMD, that's not our fault.

 

[Conflict]

The whole point is that the U.S. didn't give Saddam WMD we sold him chemicals for legitimate purposes and he turned them into WMD, that's not our fault.

Right. And Elvis is alive.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Right. And Elvis is alive.

Right and you have proof to the contrary? :roll: How's Chomsky's blog going still as full of bullshit as always I trust?

 

[Middleground]

First off I'm not going down the slippery slope based on the false premise that they sold the war to anyone the congress had the intelligence, they reviewed the intelligence, and they came to the same conclusion as the president; furthermore, one of the reasons stipulated for the war was the brutal repression of the Iraqi people, what don't you understand about that? It's in the Joint Resolution passed by Congress for Christ's sakes what you knew or did not know bears no relavance it's what congress knew and thought that matters they're the ones who voted for the use of force against Iraq and as for a representative government you're exactly correct we elect our congress and president to make the judgements they deem to be correct that's their job if you want an absolutist Democracy well I can't help you there, you seem to think that there should be a direct vote for all the issues that's not a representative Democracy that's a direct Democracy and mob rule.

Bullcookies.

I asked a simple question and all I got was an extremely long run-on sentence that gave me a headache. Try to take a breath while you're writing, m'kay?

Since you won't answer, I'll answer it for you.

There is no way in hell the Bush Administration would of sold the war simply based-on humanitarian relief. Especially after 9/11, where the American people were looking for justice on those that comitted the horrific acts. They most definitely needed another angle. And though all the well-chosen wording and redundant points, they came up with a list that could of easily been condensed into:

* Iraq has WMDs
* Saddam is a very very bad man
* The Iraqi people are repressed

Out of those three points, the first two were the major emphasis leading up to the war. Though I'm not certain, I don't recall any of the Bushies making mention of the third. It was only after the search for WMDs came up empty, is when they decided to strongly play that card. After all, that's what you do when your back is against the wall, no?

So try to digest this, Traj. Open your mind, think logically, and drop the partisan thinking.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Bullcookies.

I asked a simple question and all I got was an extremely long run-on sentence that gave me a headache. Try to take a breath while you're writing, m'kay?

Since you won't answer, I'll answer it for you.

There is no way in hell the Bush Administration would of sold the war simply based-on humanitarian relief. Especially after 9/11, where the American people were looking for justice on those that comitted the horrific acts. They most definitely needed another angle. And though all the well-chosen wording and redundant points, they came up with a list that could of easily been condensed into:

* Iraq has WMDs
* Saddam is a very very bad man
* The Iraqi people are repressed

Out of those three points, the first two were the major emphasis leading up to the war. Though I'm not certain, I don't recall any of the Bushies making mention of the third. It was only after the search for WMDs came up empty, is when they decided to strongly play that card. After all, that's what you do when your back is against the wall, no?

So try to digest this, Traj. Open your mind, think logically, and drop the partisan thinking.

What are you freaking babbling about since when do the people vote to go to war, the congress votes and the congress gave twenty-three individual reasons of why they authorized military force against Saddam, what your reasons were or were not for supporting the war makes absolutely no difference what so ever. It was only after one of the reasons given for the war in Iraq was found to be based on faulty intelligence (this is also a falsification because WMD's were found) that the media focused on WMD in an effort to pin down the Bush administration on that one issue when in fact there were 23 individual reasons given for the war there were always 23 not just the one that the anti-war crowd trys to focus on.

 

[KidRocks]

That's a total lie we supplied 1/2 of 1% of weapons supplies to Saddam during the Iran-Iraq conflict, France and the Soviets gave him the most stuff why do you think we were hitting t-32's and MIGs instead of M-1's and F-16's

The viruses we gave him were for leggitimate vaccine research and the chemicals that were sent were things that you can find at the local super save IE you take ammonia and mix it with chlorine and you got yourself mustard gas, there's your WMD we supplied to Iraq **** by that standard the pinch a penny pool distributor supplies me with WMD every other week.

This whole we supplied Saddam with WMD myth is bogus and a flagrant stretch of the truth in a true Chomskyite fashion.

What lies you Bush apologists can come up with. We did not just sell Saddam simple ammonia and chlorine, he did not need cleaning supplies he needed WMDs and he got them from that buffoon, Ronald Reagan. Reagan knew that Saddam was unstable way back then but he didn't give a damn, he went on to supply Saddam with weopons and probably billions of dollars.

In a sense, Reagan created the monster that Saddam turned out to be. And that my friend is the whole truth, try it some time, you just may like it.