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It's hard to see how trump wanted anything other than a slaughter at the capitol

Craig234

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It's one thing for trump to ask his mob to enter the capitol, and another for him to want them to slaughter Congress. But it's hard to see how anything else makes sense.

It's long been predicted that trump would use any means he could, including violence if he could, trying to stay president. People from Michael Cohen to his niece have warned about how he might do anything if he lost.

So, for weeks after the election, he's claiming he won to his mob. That their election and their country is being stolen and they have to fight to defeat the thieves.

He launches about 60 lawsuits trying to overturn the election, he asks Republican legislatures to overturn it, he has Texas sue other states trying to overturn it, he demands secretaries of states overturn it. It all fails.

Now, he's facing the biggest, last part of the process of Congressional certification of the vote. He asks Pence to simply declare that he's recognizing different electors and that trump won, Pence refuses.

So all trump has left is his mob. He can't get the military to overthrow the election, despite installing loyalists at the Pentagon after he lost. How does he use them?

He calls to all his supporters across the country to come to Washington, D.C. on Jan 6 for a rally, at which he tells them they need to fight and to march on the capitol. But why? What did he hope to get?

What does he gain by having his mob walk around the capitol building, delaying the process for a few hours, and getting them turned into criminals? Did all that effort for the rally and plan to storm the capitol make sense just for some hours of delay?

It's hard to see what that gained him.

On the other hand, if the mob got to Democratic members and slaughtered them - and maybe Mike Pence, why not, then he could appoint Ivanka as VP as he wanted to in the first place - that would really stop the process. Establish him as a 'strongman'. He could disavow responsibility while taking advantage of the chaos for his own benefit.

Any questions about whether he'd do that are answered by the fact of how close that came to happening, while he was thrilled to see the mob trying, marching the halls chanting 'hang Mike Pence' and trying to find members to assassinate, we now know.

It's hard to see his plan as having any other goal than for members to be killed - his 'burn the place down' revenge and his only chance to disrupt the process enough to try to seize continued power.

Doing all that to arrange for the storming of the building just for a few hours' delay makes no sense.

So it's seeming trump deserves to be seen not only for inciting insurrection but inciting assassination, which nearly happened. We now know that Mike Pence was moved from the Senate floor into hiding with his family one minute before the mob reached the door of the floor, and was less than 100 feet from his hiding area.

If you have another theory of what trump's goal by this whole planned operation was, make your case, but I'm not seeing any other goal that makes much sense. Clearly trump did create the danger of assassination and nearly caused it, but it's hard to see how that wasn't his goal.

Add in that his closest allies in Congress were having mob members led around the capitol the day before for recon, and even worse possible plots involving more people are possible.
 
It's one thing for trump to ask his mob to enter the capitol, and another for him to want them to slaughter Congress. But it's hard to see how anything else makes sense.

It's long been predicted that trump would use any means he could, including violence if he could, trying to stay president. People from Michael Cohen to his niece have warned about how he might do anything if he lost.

So, for weeks after the election, he's claiming he won to his mob. That their election and their country is being stolen and they have to fight to defeat the thieves.

He launches about 60 lawsuits trying to overturn the election, he asks Republican legislatures to overturn it, he has Texas sue other states trying to overturn it, he demands secretaries of states overturn it. It all fails.

Now, he's facing the biggest, last part of the process of Congressional certification of the vote. He asks Pence to simply declare that he's recognizing different electors and that trump won, Pence refuses.

So all trump has left is his mob. He can't get the military to overthrow the election, despite installing loyalists at the Pentagon after he lost. How does he use them?

He calls to all his supporters across the country to come to Washington, D.C. on Jan 6 for a rally, at which he tells them they need to fight and to march on the capitol. But why? What did he hope to get?

What does he gain by having his mob walk around the capitol building, delaying the process for a few hours, and getting them turned into criminals? Did all that effort for the rally and plan to storm the capitol make sense just for some hours of delay?

It's hard to see what that gained him.

On the other hand, if the mob got to Democratic members and slaughtered them - and maybe Mike Pence, why not, then he could appoint Ivanka as VP as he wanted to in the first place - that would really stop the process. Establish him as a 'strongman'. He could disavow responsibility while taking advantage of the chaos for his own benefit.

Any questions about whether he'd do that are answered by the fact of how close that came to happening, while he was thrilled to see the mob trying, marching the halls chanting 'hang Mike Pence' and trying to find members to assassinate, we now know.

It's hard to see his plan as having any other goal than for members to be killed - his 'burn the place down' revenge and his only chance to disrupt the process enough to try to seize continued power.

Doing all that to arrange for the storming of the building just for a few hours' delay makes no sense.

So it's seeming trump deserves to be seen not only for inciting insurrection but inciting assassination, which nearly happened. We now know that Mike Pence was moved from the Senate floor into hiding with his family one minute before the mob reached the door of the floor, and was less than 100 feet from his hiding area.

If you have another theory of what trump's goal by this whole planned operation was, make your case, but I'm not seeing any other goal that makes much sense. Clearly trump did create the danger of assassination and nearly caused it, but it's hard to see how that wasn't his goal.

Add in that his closest allies in Congress were having mob members led around the capitol the day before for recon, and even worse possible plots involving more people are possible.

That is true. What he was basically saying is that if you go to the Capitol and “be strong”, then somehow the Congress will not affirm the electoral college vote for Biden. Did he really think that just a large demonstration would do that, or was he in fact urging more? And even if all he was doing was calling for a demonstration, then he was too ignorant to understand that “word matter” and that his two months long urging of his followers to prevent the “stealing” of the election would surely put thoughts of greater action than just demonstration into their feeble little minds.
 
It's one thing for trump to ask his mob to enter the capitol, and another for him to want them to slaughter Congress. But it's hard to see how anything else makes sense.

It's long been predicted that trump would use any means he could, including violence if he could, trying to stay president. People from Michael Cohen to his niece have warned about how he might do anything if he lost.

So, for weeks after the election, he's claiming he won to his mob. That their election and their country is being stolen and they have to fight to defeat the thieves.

He launches about 60 lawsuits trying to overturn the election, he asks Republican legislatures to overturn it, he has Texas sue other states trying to overturn it, he demands secretaries of states overturn it. It all fails.

Now, he's facing the biggest, last part of the process of Congressional certification of the vote. He asks Pence to simply declare that he's recognizing different electors and that trump won, Pence refuses.

So all trump has left is his mob. He can't get the military to overthrow the election, despite installing loyalists at the Pentagon after he lost. How does he use them?

He calls to all his supporters across the country to come to Washington, D.C. on Jan 6 for a rally, at which he tells them they need to fight and to march on the capitol. But why? What did he hope to get?

What does he gain by having his mob walk around the capitol building, delaying the process for a few hours, and getting them turned into criminals? Did all that effort for the rally and plan to storm the capitol make sense just for some hours of delay?

It's hard to see what that gained him.

On the other hand, if the mob got to Democratic members and slaughtered them - and maybe Mike Pence, why not, then he could appoint Ivanka as VP as he wanted to in the first place - that would really stop the process. Establish him as a 'strongman'. He could disavow responsibility while taking advantage of the chaos for his own benefit.

Any questions about whether he'd do that are answered by the fact of how close that came to happening, while he was thrilled to see the mob trying, marching the halls chanting 'hang Mike Pence' and trying to find members to assassinate, we now know.

It's hard to see his plan as having any other goal than for members to be killed - his 'burn the place down' revenge and his only chance to disrupt the process enough to try to seize continued power.

Doing all that to arrange for the storming of the building just for a few hours' delay makes no sense.

So it's seeming trump deserves to be seen not only for inciting insurrection but inciting assassination, which nearly happened. We now know that Mike Pence was moved from the Senate floor into hiding with his family one minute before the mob reached the door of the floor, and was less than 100 feet from his hiding area.

If you have another theory of what trump's goal by this whole planned operation was, make your case, but I'm not seeing any other goal that makes much sense. Clearly trump did create the danger of assassination and nearly caused it, but it's hard to see how that wasn't his goal.

Add in that his closest allies in Congress were having mob members led around the capitol the day before for recon, and even worse possible plots involving more people are possible.
In the plausible hypothetical, I know what he had in mind. He wanted dead congressmen, women and Pence, just like you stated. Then he would declare martial law and argue that Antifa did it. Easy peasy in the mind of a simpleton like Trump.
 
"We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!"
- Donald Trump, 2012 (when he didn't like the results of Obama's re-election.
 
That is true. What he was basically saying is that if you go to the Capitol and “be strong”, then somehow the Congress will not affirm the electoral college vote for Biden. Did he really think that just a large demonstration would do that, or was he in fact urging more? And even if all he was doing was calling for a demonstration, then he was too ignorant to understand that “word matter” and that his two months long urging of his followers to prevent the “stealing” of the election would surely put thoughts of greater action than just demonstration into their feeble little minds.

The one area trump is not an incompetent about is his role as a con man. He tends to understand his suckers very well, which has been shown since his campaign, as he recognized not only that murder wouldn't lose their support, but that his telling them they'd support him when he committed murder would get cheers, and he was right.

So he's not naive about his cult, and he'd kept them over four years. Why would he finally deploy them in this historic attack? Just to walk around the capitol for a couple hours doesn't benefit him much at all. This was a plot, as he planned this rally and to send them to the capitol for quite some time. The question is what his goal was, and only killing members makes sense.

When you look at his language to the mob, it seems clearly intended to give them a message to go and kill members.

He said the event would be "wild", and told them their country was being stolen by the people in the Capitol, and they had to go fight to keep their country. Just walking there wouldn't 'save the country from being stolen'. Only one thing might change the situation of Biden being declared the winner. And it's hard to see how trump wasn't plotting for that one thing, a slaughter of Congress, leaving him firmly in charge. Maybe this explains the Pentagon changes...
 
I honestly don't even think Trump spent much thinking about the consequences of his actions. And honestly, that has always been the problem with selfish, short sighted, impulsive people like him. It's all about immediate gratification. Trump wanted images of the Capitol under siege by his mob. Did he contemplate what that actually meant in terms of risk to human life, including his own Vice President? Probably not, because that would require looking outside of himself and that just isn't the kind of man that Trump is.
 
Even after it was revealed that the mob was looking for Pence and shouting "Hang Mike Pence!", Trump never once bothered to inquire about his Vice Presidents safety, and only spoke to him again two days ago.

I really don't think Trump would be all that upset if the mob HAD found and hung Mike Pence. Trump feels Pence betrayed him and doesn't trust Pence now to pardon him.
 
Well-- first to clear out the misinformation-- Mr Trump never called upon anyone to storm the Capitol.

Now-- it would appear the rest of the OP is based upon being puzzled that right wing, conservatives, Republicans, anti- progressives (whatever you wish to call them), would copy the often successful left wing tactics of 'marches on Washington' and rioting in the streets to place pressure for a desired political outcome.
Rather than wondering about 'mass slaughter' the way to look at last week is 'imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.'
 
georgebush.jpeg


Bush was in a school classroom when America was attacked.



Trump organized and then watched his attack on America unfold live on TV.

a-cartoon-Trump-plane-world-trade-towers.jpg


Never forget.
 
I am sure he wanted a floor revolution, but the mob did not have any leadership in order to cause it to occur.
 
I am sure he wanted a floor revolution, but the mob did not have any leadership in order to cause it to occur.

It had leadership. There are reports of the leaders trying to hide their faces from cameras while trying to direct the riots.
 
It had leadership. There are reports of the leaders trying to hide their faces from cameras while trying to direct the riots.

Sounds like antifa.
Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
 
It had leadership. There are reports of the leaders trying to hide their faces from cameras while trying to direct the riots.

I mean real leadership. The only way the “ coup” was going to work is if the “government “ fired on the protesters. That would have made the crowd angry and potentially provided a public opinion boost to the group. With no upper level leadership to cause the shooting of the protesters the coup attempt was doomed to failure.

Almost all colour revolutions involve the protesters getting shot at by government forces turning public opinion against the government. In the US they failed to have some people standing by ready to shoot the protesters in a false flag operation. Had they done that you could have seen a real civil war in the US
 
I disagree. If the Capitol police had been prepared the riot doesn't happen. Most of the rioters are in their 40's and 50's.

Trump is responsible for lying to these people. If someone convinced you that Hillary Clinton won the election but Republicans flipped votes with hacked voting machines, you would be pretty angry. And you would be right to be angry that these politicians have betrayed our country this way. You would feel like your only recourse is to riot.

In that sense, Trump is responsible. But his speech has plausible deniability because he told them to "peacefully" protest. He literally said that. When you have Jonathan Turley and Alan Dershowitz defending Trump here, you know it's not an open and shut case. You know you won't get enough Republicans to convict. So, what's the point?
 
I disagree. If the Capitol police had been prepared the riot doesn't happen. Most of the rioters are in their 40's and 50's.

Trump is responsible for lying to these people. If someone convinced you that Hillary Clinton won the election but Republicans flipped votes with hacked voting machines, you would be pretty angry. And you would be right to be angry that these politicians have betrayed our country this way. You would feel like your only recourse is to riot.

In that sense, Trump is responsible. But his speech has plausible deniability because he told them to "peacefully" protest. He literally said that. When you have Jonathan Turley and Alan Dershowitz defending Trump here, you know it's not an open and shut case. You know you won't get enough Republicans to convict. So, what's the point?

Ok-- so does similar denunciations accrue to BLM or even Democrats in general when they lie to people about police brutality?
Thus resulting in the riots over the summer.
Or does this only work one way?
 
Ok-- so does similar denunciations accrue to BLM or even Democrats in general when they lie to people about police brutality?
Thus resulting in the riots over the summer.
Or does this only work one way?

Trump's election fraud claims are total lies. There is no credible evidence of Trump's claims.

The same cannot be said of police brutality. There is an abundance of evidence. We all saw what happened to George Floyd with our own eyes. There is a whole list of such incidence we all saw.
 
In that sense, Trump is responsible. But his speech has plausible deniability because he told them to "peacefully" protest. He literally said that. When you have Jonathan Turley and Alan Dershowitz defending Trump here, you know it's not an open and shut case. You know you won't get enough Republicans to convict. So, what's the point?

In the Senate impeachment trial? Maybe not; but impeachment A) sends the absolutely necessary message that this shit won't stand, B) removes the possibilities (long shots though they may have been) of a pardon by Pence or self-pardon by Trump and, perhaps least importantly, C) lets voters see which of their Congress members are happy to let Trump off the hook for his role in the attack.

As you note, Trump made the bare minimum token gesture which in his mind would keep him off the hook among his supporters (and he was mostly correct in that, it seems) and in the courts (which seems doubtful, but who knows).
 
If you have another theory of what trump's goal by this whole planned operation was, make your case, but I'm not seeing any other goal that makes much sense. Clearly trump did create the danger of assassination and nearly caused it, but it's hard to see how that wasn't his goal.

My best guess is that he simply intended to cause as much chaos as possible to ingratiate himself with whatever foreign power he hopes to seek refuge from. Which is more likely, that assassinations/martial law would allow him to retain his grip on the presidency, or that he manages to flee the country? Or more to the point, which would be more likely and preferable in Trump's mind? I suppose assassinations/martial law might have been a long-shot Plan A.
 
Well-- first to clear out the misinformation-- Mr Trump never called upon anyone to storm the Capitol.

Now-- it would appear the rest of the OP is based upon being puzzled that right wing, conservatives, Republicans, anti- progressives (whatever you wish to call them), would copy the often successful left wing tactics of 'marches on Washington' and rioting in the streets to place pressure for a desired political outcome.
Rather than wondering about 'mass slaughter' the way to look at last week is 'imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.'

And Hitler never ordered anyone to kill 6 million Jews. Funny how things work out.
 
georgebush.jpeg


Bush was in a school classroom when America was attacked.



Trump organized and then watched his attack on America unfold live on TV.

a-cartoon-Trump-plane-world-trade-towers.jpg


Never forget.


My god Ivanka is gorgeous!
 
"...people are not going to take it any longer, they’re not going to take it any longer...We will never concede. It doesn’t happen. You don’t concede when there’s theft involved....we are stuck with a president who lost the election...we're not going to let that happen. ...Our country will be destroyed and we are not going to let that happen. ...And we’re going to have to fight much harder....If you don't fight like hell we're not going to have a country anymore..."


Sounds like a call to arms to me. What else could he be getting at?
 
Frankly, sending them to the Capitol was the clincher for me. That was just asking for trouble.
 


Trump organized and then watched his attack on America unfold live on TV.


Actually, that video is shot before the Capitol riot. You can clearly see the crowds in the TV are at the speech location.

If we can get people to testify that Trump watched the riots and did nothing, that would be damning.
 
And if there is any doubt about what Donnie Boy and his IDIOT crew were trying to accomplish hurling that mob at the Capital all you have to do is listen to Rudy's audio message left for Tommy Tuberville WHILE the Insurrection was taking place. He lays it out quite plainly though in truth I am sure they were looking to lock up the entire process trying to run out the clock on it. They did not care what was destroyed nor who was injured or killed either, ON EITHER SIDE!!!!

In fact I am sure Trump has thrown Rudy under the bus because Rudy was STUPID enough to leave a taped message instead of talking to Tuberville directly.
 
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