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It's baaaaaack!

Redress said:
Have you read the VA workbook? I am guessing not, since it is about as inoffensive as you can get. In fact it points out reasons why you may want all those expensive treatments.
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I haven't read the whole book, no, but I thought the VA discontinued using this book. I know it was discontinued under Bush. Doesn't sound so innocuous to me.
 
liblady said:
and therein lies the problem, from you and others (barb, specifically) calling something a death panel , which is in no way truthful, to your "speculation" about a conversation between a doctor and a patient, you and barb have shown your partisanship, and it's not pretty. in fact, it's ignorant and petty and copmpletely uncalled for. you're in good company.
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You're going to lecture me on partisanship, LIBlady? Please, I could show you a vid of Obama flat out saying it's our duty to die at 75, and you'd still twist, spin it and drink up whatever poisoned kool-aid this admin served. Ohhhh yeah.
 
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Barbbtx said:
I never said that.


Jim Towey: The Death Book for Veterans - WSJ.com
The circumstances listed include ones common among the elderly and disabled: living in a nursing home, being in a wheelchair and not being able to "shake the blues." There is a section which provocatively asks, "Have you ever heard anyone say, 'If I'm a vegetable, pull the plug'?" There also are guilt-inducing scenarios such as "I can no longer contribute to my family's well being," "I am a severe financial burden on my family" and that the vet's situation "causes severe emotional burden for my family."
When the government can steer vulnerable individuals to conclude for themselves that life is not worth living, who needs a death panel?
One can only imagine a soldier surviving the war in Iraq and returning without all of his limbs only to encounter a veteran's health-care system that seems intent on his surrender
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Here is the actual workbook, not someone's biased op ed on it.

http://stevebuyer.house.gov/UploadedFiles/Your_Life_Your_Choices.pdf

I looked up one of the phrases from your quote and this is what I got.

Here's another example. Have you ever heard
anyone say, “If I’m a vegetable, pull the plug”?
What does this mean to you? What's a vegetable?
What's a plug? Even people who live together can
have very different ideas about what the same words
mean without knowing it. The story of May and
John Williams shows how important it is to be
specific about what you mean.

...

If you couldn’t speak for
yourself, what would you want
done for you?

Think about the following statements. Do you agree
with any of them?

Discussing your answers with
others can help them understand what is important
to you and where you stand with respect to health
care decisions.

- My life should be prolonged as long as it can, no matter
what its quality, and using any means possible.

-I believe there are some situations in which I would not
want treatments to keep me alive.

-I'd want my religious advisors to be consulted about all
medical decisions made on my behalf to make sure
they are in keeping with my religious teachings.

-My personal wishes would not be as important as what
my family thinks is best for me.

-I'd want to have my pain controlled, even if the
medications make me sleepy or make it difficult to have
conversations with my family.
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Hardly advising someone to die ...
 
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liblady said:
yeah, not so much. sorry, barb, but throwing in that line about pacemakers just proves my point. everything you've posted on this subject is baseless.
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Did you watch the video? The woman is 105 and got a pacemaker at 100 yrs old. Don't see that ever happening with Obamacare since he said sometimes it's better to just take a pain pill.
 
Barbbtx said:
I never said that.


Jim Towey: The Death Book for Veterans - WSJ.com
The circumstances listed include ones common among the elderly and disabled: living in a nursing home, being in a wheelchair and not being able to "shake the blues." There is a section which provocatively asks, "Have you ever heard anyone say, 'If I'm a vegetable, pull the plug'?" There also are guilt-inducing scenarios such as "I can no longer contribute to my family's well being," "I am a severe financial burden on my family" and that the vet's situation "causes severe emotional burden for my family."
When the government can steer vulnerable individuals to conclude for themselves that life is not worth living, who needs a death panel?
One can only imagine a soldier surviving the war in Iraq and returning without all of his limbs only to encounter a veteran's health-care system that seems intent on his surrender
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Nothing offense or leading about those questions... unless you apply your own spin. And Towney has two conflicts of interst. He has his OWN worksheet, similar, so I would doubt that he would support another. Also, his previous job gives him a position of bias, also. So, now... I don't see anything here that supports your position at all.
 
Barbbtx said:
I never said that.


Jim Towey: The Death Book for Veterans - WSJ.com
The circumstances listed include ones common among the elderly and disabled: living in a nursing home, being in a wheelchair and not being able to "shake the blues." There is a section which provocatively asks, "Have you ever heard anyone say, 'If I'm a vegetable, pull the plug'?" There also are guilt-inducing scenarios such as "I can no longer contribute to my family's well being," "I am a severe financial burden on my family" and that the vet's situation "causes severe emotional burden for my family."
When the government can steer vulnerable individuals to conclude for themselves that life is not worth living, who needs a death panel?
One can only imagine a soldier surviving the war in Iraq and returning without all of his limbs only to encounter a veteran's health-care system that seems intent on his surrender
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again, you're posting nothing but speculation. seems to me honest questions about quality of life are a good thing, i'm so sorry you feel that people can't handle them.
 
X Factor said:
You're going to lecture me on partisanship, LIBlady? Please, I could show you a vid of Obama flat out saying it's our duty to die at 75, and you'd still twist, spin it and drink up whatever poisoned kool-aid this admin served. Ohhhh yeah.
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except you can't come up with anything like that, can you? just because i self identify as a lib does not automatically make me partisan, as you seem to be. it makes me honest.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I see absolutely nothing wrong with the workbook. Nothing offensive about the questions... unless you are spinning them.
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The booklet was co-authored by Dr. Robert Pearlman, who was among several physicians and scholars who argued in a 1996 Supreme Court amicus brief that the high court "should recognize a right to physician assisted suicide for dying patients."
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..........

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs...-va-did-not-pull-so-called-death-book-website
 
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Barbbtx said:
Did you watch the video? The woman is 105 and got a pacemaker at 100 yrs old. Don't see that ever happening with Obamacare since he said sometimes it's better to just take a pain pill.
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yes, i watched the video. didn't see anything that meant she would not get a pacemaker with the new law in place, did you?
 
liblady said:
except you can't come up with anything like that, can you? just because i self identify as a lib does not automatically make me partisan, as you seem to be. it makes me honest.
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What can't I come up with? You carrying Obama's water like a pack mule? Hey, is that why Dems use the donkey?
 
Tucker Case said:
What's wrong with that? :confused:
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He's probably trying to make the connection that because he is in favor of assisted suicides, he would word the questions in his workbook towards choosing death. I could see the possible bias, but the questions don't reflect that, so it does not apply.
 
liblady said:
yes, i watched the video. didn't see anything that meant she would not get a pacemaker with the new law in place, did you?
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oh, and by the way.......she was nearly denied BEFORE the law was place, wasn't she? so, maybe she should have have her own private insurance, right? why should the gov't pay for a 100 year old woman to get a pacemaker? seriously? we can't just keep giving handouts to peoiple who don't contribute to society, can we? we need to rein in spending, right?

do you see how ridiculous your arguments are here? on the one hand, you are one of the people who RANT on and on about people's taxes, and yet, you want to pay for a very old woman's pacemaker. dishonest.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
He's probably trying to make the connection that because he is in favor of assisted suicides, he would word the questions in his workbook towards choosing death. I could see the possible bias, but the questions don't reflect that, so it does not apply.
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always the voice of reason.
 
Tucker Case said:
What's wrong with that? :confused:
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I don't like the questions on page 21. They could lead someone to become depressed instead of being optimistic about their situation. I wouldn't want a loved one of mine worrying about being a burden or worrying about money for example.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
He's probably trying to make the connection that because he is in favor of assisted suicides, he would word the questions in his workbook towards choosing death. I could see the possible bias, but the questions don't reflect that, so it does not apply.
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So are you saying his assumption is that people will be "tricked" into chosing death because of the wording of a question in a workbook??!?!
 
Tucker Case said:
So are you saying you believe the government is more capable in making medical decisions than the person and their doctor are?
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I'm saying I'm biased in favor of life. Kevorkian was no hero.
 
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