It's baaaaaack!

[liblady]

Let's all restart this thread on Liblady's behalf. :roll:

yes, lets. because barb has done nothing but make vague statements about what SHE "thinks" (for lack of a proper term) will happen, while using the typical juvenile code words. she's put forward no facts or even informed opinion. if hannity or beck thought this was a good thing, trust me, barb would too. are you like that as well?

 

[mac]

Standard "the sky is falling" rhetoric. All this does is have doctors discuss options with patients, always a good thing.

Have you ever met an accountant, CC?

 

[X Factor]

I'm at work and don't have speakers that are decent on my computer, so I don't do youtube. Are there any transcripts anywhere?

I couldn't find transcripts. This is as close a summation of the two videos I could find, but it doesn't do the vids justice.


At What Cost, Cutting Off A Leg? - Marc Ambinder - Politics - The Atlantic

 

[Barbbtx]

how about you actually look into it instead of asking glenn beck type scary questions.

I didn't get those type of questions from Glenn Beck. They were the type of questions asked at one time in our government run VA hospitals.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Have you ever met an accountant, CC?

My best friend is one.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I couldn't find transcripts. This is as close a summation of the two videos I could find, but it doesn't do the vids justice.


At What Cost, Cutting Off A Leg? - Marc Ambinder - Politics - The Atlantic

Thanks. I'll check the videos at home and reserve judgement until then.

 

[tacomancer]

I didn't get those type of questions from Glenn Beck. They were the type of questions asked at one time in our government run VA hospitals.

So, government VA hospitals are euthanizing old people?

 

[Barbbtx]

um, barbie, i did address your post. what exactly do you think is wrong with end of life counseling?

umm libby, I'm not going back to see why I thought you didn't address my post and I think I've been doing quite well in expressing why I don't want government involvement in HC.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dQfb8WQvo
This one should be frightening for anyone getting up there in years or has a parent who is.
Can you image under Obamacare anyone getting a pacemaker (at a guess, older than 75 or 80)? Probably wouldn't get one past retirement age. That would save on SS.

 

[liblady]

So, government VA hospitals are euthanizing old people?

sure they are, and i'll bet barb's got proof.

 

[liblady]

umm libby, I'm not going back to see why I thought you didn't address my post and I think I've been doing quite well in expressing why I don't want government involvement in HC.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dQfb8WQvo
This one should be frightening for anyone getting up there in years or has a parent who is.
Can you image under Obamacare anyone getting a pacemaker (at a guess, older than 75 or 80)? Probably wouldn't get one past retirement age. That would save on SS.

yeah, not so much. sorry, barb, but throwing in that line about pacemakers just proves my point. everything you've posted on this subject is baseless.

 

[Barbbtx]

So, government VA hospitals are euthanizing old people?

I don't know why people keep bring up euthanasia. Letting people die is not quite the same thing.

 

[tacomancer]

sure they are, and i'll bet barb's got proof.

Maybe it won't be the poorly thought out crap that she usually posts.

 

[tacomancer]

I don't know why people keep bring up euthanasia. Letting people die is not quite the same thing.

Ok. I will rephrase. The VA hospital system is systematically causing old people to die through counseling?

 

[X Factor]

yes, lets. because barb has done nothing but make vague statements about what SHE "thinks" (for lack of a proper term) will happen, while using the typical juvenile code words. she's put forward no facts or even informed opinion. if hannity or beck thought this was a good thing, trust me, barb would too. are you like that as well?

I don't even like Glenn Beck. Too hysterical. Anyway, the concern is that doctors will be encouraged to push end of life decisions that, frankly, cost less. More than once, Obama has seemed to suggest that giving up on life for elderly people was just the better, more responsible decision. I'm sure you remember this;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJYvaLS-xOw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

His comments make us less than confident that the government won't try to insert itself into these discussions and make one option sound like the better, more noble choice.

 

[liblady]

Maybe it won't be the poorly thought out crap that she usually posts.

don't bet on it.

 

[Redress]

Maybe it won't be the poorly thought out crap that she usually posts.

Moderator's Warning:

Do not do this.

 

[liblady]

I don't even like Glenn Beck. Too hysterical. Anyway, the concern is that doctors will be encouraged to push end of life decisions that, frankly, cost less. More than once, Obama has seemed to suggest that giving up on life for elderly people was just the better, more responsible decision. I'm sure you remember this;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJYvaLS-xOw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

His comments make us less than confident that the government won't try to insert itself into these discussions and make one option sound like the better, more noble choice.

that's YOUR misinterpretation of what obama said. the discussion would be between the doctor and the patient, correct? what gov't employee will be involved in that discussion? WHAT will be discussed, exactly? wouldn't doctor patient privilege apply, anyway? HOW then will gov't insert themselves into the conversation, as you claim?

 

[tacomancer]

that's YOUR misinterpretation of what obama said. the discussion would be between the doctor and the patient, correct? what gov't employee will be involved in that discussion? WHAT will be discussed, exactly? wouldn't doctor patient privilege apply, anyway? HOW then will gov't insert themselves into the conversation, as you claim?

Sure, they will be in a black suit, sitting in the back of the office with a clipboard, sunglasses, and a surely expression while the doctor very careful goes over your options trembling the whole time :lol:

 

[X Factor]

So, government VA hospitals are euthanizing old people?

I think she's referring to an end of life workbook the VA has used for returning soldiers.

The Death Book for Veterans Ex-soldiers don't need to be told they're a burden to society.

See what you miss when you only watch MSNBC. :2razz:

 

[Redress]

I think she's referring to an end of life workbook the VA has used for returning soldiers.

The Death Book for Veterans Ex-soldiers don't need to be told they're a burden to society.

See what you miss when you only watch MSNBC. :2razz:

Have you read the VA workbook? I am guessing not, since it is about as inoffensive as you can get. In fact it points out reasons why you may want all those expensive treatments.

 

[tacomancer]

I think she's referring to an end of life workbook the VA has used for returning soldiers.

The Death Book for Veterans Ex-soldiers don't need to be told they're a burden to society.

See what you miss when you only watch MSNBC. :2razz:

1. I don't watch any televised news, except for the local stuff and generally only that for the weather. You also brought this up without knowing how I get my news So cut the crap and try to be honest in this discussion, otherwise the only person you are hurting in this debate is yourself.

2. This website you linked has conspiracy crap like flouridation. Do you have a real source?

 

[X Factor]

that's YOUR misinterpretation of what obama said. the discussion would be between the doctor and the patient, correct? what gov't employee will be involved in that discussion? WHAT will be discussed, exactly? wouldn't doctor patient privilege apply, anyway? HOW then will gov't insert themselves into the conversation, as you claim?

You're asking me to speculate so I will. If a doctor wants to be paid for these wellness checks, he could have a checklist he's required go through with the patient before he'll be reimbursed, just as with Medicare there are criteria for reimbursement. Incidentally, that video I linked is not the only one where Obama's preference seems to be in not going the extra step for the elderly. If I remember, I'll look for others later.

 

[liblady]

You're asking me to speculate so I will. If a doctor wants to be paid for these wellness checks, he could have a checklist he's required go through with the patient before he'll be reimbursed, just as with Medicare there are criteria for reimbursement. Incidentally, that video I linked is not the only one where Obama's preference seems to be in not going the extra step for the elderly. If I remember, I'll look for others later.

and therein lies the problem, from you and others (barb, specifically) calling something a death panel , which is in no way truthful, to your "speculation" about a conversation between a doctor and a patient, you and barb have shown your partisanship, and it's not pretty. in fact, it's ignorant and petty and copmpletely uncalled for. you're in good company.

 

[tacomancer]

and therein lies the problem, from you and others (barb, specifically) calling something a death panel , which is in no way truthful, to your "speculation" about a conversation between a doctor and a patient, you and barb have shown your partisanship, and it's not pretty. in fact, it's ignorant and petty and copmpletely uncalled for. you're in good company.

At this point its not even speculation, its pretty much an outright lie.

 

[Barbbtx]

sure they are, and i'll bet barb's got proof.

I never said that.


Jim Towey: The Death Book for Veterans - WSJ.com
The circumstances listed include ones common among the elderly and disabled: living in a nursing home, being in a wheelchair and not being able to "shake the blues." There is a section which provocatively asks, "Have you ever heard anyone say, 'If I'm a vegetable, pull the plug'?" There also are guilt-inducing scenarios such as "I can no longer contribute to my family's well being," "I am a severe financial burden on my family" and that the vet's situation "causes severe emotional burden for my family."
When the government can steer vulnerable individuals to conclude for themselves that life is not worth living, who needs a death panel?
One can only imagine a soldier surviving the war in Iraq and returning without all of his limbs only to encounter a veteran's health-care system that seems intent on his surrender