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VF500

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"May" being the key word, it may also contain a policy for doctors to administer cherry flavoured enemas to patients with chicken pox.

I have a very simple mind. Why is the government bugging old people about the "end-of-their-lives" in the first place? I guess this is some of the schit Nancy Pelosi said we'd find out about after they passed the law. Would you expect people who hide under outhouses, like the ACLU, to come right out and say "We're going to give you old people the option of being quietly put to sleep or suffering with what's killing you, but we're not going to spend any money on trying to cure you." That's only a gaff Joe Biden would blurt out. BTW, a gaff is when a politician "accidently" tells the truth.

Now go feed your wallabys, Wally.
 

VF500

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OMFG. What on earth is wrong with advising doctors to talk to their patients about end-of-life options??? Death panels. Ridiculous.

I dunno. Why did they put Jack Kevorkian in jail for assisting in suicide? Communists have no problem ending people's lives. They do it all the time. Millions died under Mao from starvation. Who cared? He sure didn't. He said China has plenty of people. Is that your philosophy too? How're you gonna feel when it's you?
 

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From article in Post#19
The Obama administration will pass legislation that will allow Medicare to pay doctors to advise patients on end-of-life planning starting January 1.
[...]
The new rule authorizes Medicare to pay for yearly "wellness" visits for patients, which is simply a physical and discussion between doctor and patient about "voluntary advance care planing" to discuss end-of-life treatment.

Medicare to Revive End-of-Life Decision - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com

It authorizes PAYMENT for such a consultation. Nowhere does it require that the consultation has to favor one particular position over another.

Barbbtx said:
I don't want someone bugging me about death and how expensive my treatments are every year.
Don't schedule a consultation. Pretty simple.
Barbbtx said:
Do patients ask for the counseling or is it forced on them?
Make an appointment with your doctor - or not - like one would do if they had a hangnail.
Barbbtx said:
Are they going to ask questions like "do you sometimes feel like you are a burden to your family?"
That's between you and your doctor. No one will know - doctor/patient privilege.
Barbbtx said:
Do you sometimes feel like your life is no longer worth living? Never, sometimes, often, very often?
It could be a question a doctor might ask, but that would be between you and your doctor. Don't like the question? Tell your doctor you're uncomfortable with that line of questioning or find a new one
Barbbtx said:
I want to know that they aren't going to guide people in the direction of dying sooner rather than receiving treatments or surgeries that they need.
The legislation will PAY for that discussion between you and your doctor. If the intent was to guide you in a certain direction, they would have you consulting with a Medicare administrator rather than your doctor.



I can truly understand being skeptical, because I am, but there is nothing in this legislation that demands, requires or even hints at how YOUR doctor counsels you. It merely pays for that consultation, just like it pays for a visit to get a flu shot. Nothing more - Nothing less.
 

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The story that just won't die. Guess what has popped up again, the day after Christmas? Death panels are back in the news as of today. What Obama can't get through congress he end-runs around congress with administrative regulations. OK liberals, what's your excuse this time?

When a proposal to encourage end-of-life planning touched off a political storm over “death panels,’’ Democrats dropped it from legislation to overhaul the health care system. But the Obama administration will achieve the same goal by regulation, starting Jan. 1.

Under the new policy, outlined in a Medicare regulation, the government will pay doctors who advise patients on options for end-of-life care, which may include advance directives to forgo aggressive life-sustaining treatment.


New Medicaid rule encourages doctors to advise patients on end-of-life options - The Boston Globe

Good. I think humans need to stop playing God and allow the weak and the old die off.
 

CaptainCourtesy

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The HC bill had the doctors having the conversation every 5 yrs. Now it's every year. Are they going to ask people to help us out with the deficit by dying earlier or what? Knowing that the HC czar what's his name Berwick? is all for rationing to keep costs down, kind of makes you wonder.

Standard "the sky is falling" rhetoric. All this does is have doctors discuss options with patients, always a good thing.
 

CaptainCourtesy

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Oh, I see. So you think there's really no possible way this will ever get pushed in through a side door or "pole vault over the wall" as Nancy Pelosi said they were going to do with health care? Well then, why do the **** roaches keep bringing it back up, especially the day after Christmas when they think no one is paying any attention? You just hide and watch what your slime ball buddies have in store.

More "the sky is falling" crap. Nothing here that is based in reality. Not surprisingly.
 

Redress

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I have a very simple mind. Why is the government bugging old people about the "end-of-their-lives" in the first place? I guess this is some of the schit Nancy Pelosi said we'd find out about after they passed the law. Would you expect people who hide under outhouses, like the ACLU, to come right out and say "We're going to give you old people the option of being quietly put to sleep or suffering with what's killing you, but we're not going to spend any money on trying to cure you." That's only a gaff Joe Biden would blurt out. BTW, a gaff is when a politician "accidently" tells the truth.

Now go feed your wallabys, Wally.

The government is not bugging old people about end of life discussions, they are adding them to the list of things payed for. This is a large, unsubtle difference.

By the way, congratz on using the same partial quote of Pelosi. Dishonesty in debate is never a good idea.
 

AGENT J

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"May" being the key word, it may also contain a policy for doctors to administer cherry flavoured enemas to patients with chicken pox.


:2funny::2funny::2funny::2funny::2funny:
 

AGENT J

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OMFG. What on earth is wrong with advising doctors to talk to their patients about end-of-life options??? And to encourage them to sign Health Care Powers of Attorney? And to execute Living Wills?

Do you not understand that medicine is as much about money as it is about any other aspect of a patient's health? It is time that we faced the fact that we are going to die!!! And time we faced that prolonging a patient's suffering in the name of some twisted sense of humanity is wrong.

At $10,000 a pop, doctors and hospitals are quite happy pumping chemotherapy into dying patients' veins until the very end. It is time we as a society grew up and faced reality. We are going to die. Terminal illnesses exist. And even if we can cure every terminal illness on the planet earth, we will simply dry up and blow away.

Death panels. Ridiculous.

whats even more funny is that my dad was already advised on end-of-life options, He passed in 2004.
non-story
 

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I think counseling patients is a step forward but it's still not enough. I think we also need to pay doctors and hospital staff commissions on all patients they convince to forgo life sustaining treatments, and post signs in ICU units that remind grandma and grandpa that we can't afford to treat them, and if they are true patriots, they need to forgo life sustaining options for the good of the country...
 

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We already have laws on the books concerning end of life. Why do we need more legislation on it?



Patient Self-Determination Act

In order to protect the rights of its citizens, Congress passed the Patient Self-Determination Act in 1991. This law makes it clear that you have the right to make decisions regarding your medical care including the right to accept or refuse treatment and the right to make an advance directive. The law also requires health care facilities/agencies to discuss advance health care directives with you as you enter their system.
 

Redress

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We already have laws on the books concerning end of life. Why do we need more legislation on it?



Patient Self-Determination Act

In order to protect the rights of its citizens, Congress passed the Patient Self-Determination Act in 1991. This law makes it clear that you have the right to make decisions regarding your medical care including the right to accept or refuse treatment and the right to make an advance directive. The law also requires health care facilities/agencies to discuss advance health care directives with you as you enter their system.

That law does not provide coverage for end of life counseling, nor does it apply to individual doctors. It also does not require actual counseling, only a written summary. Your link makes all this clear, you should have read it.
 

Barbbtx

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That law does not provide coverage for end of life counseling, nor does it apply to individual doctors. It also does not require actual counseling, only a written summary. Your link makes all this clear, you should have read it.

The point is I think the 1991 law is good enough. Why are we pushing a different one to the point it was taken out of the HC bill and now is being brought back in through the back door? why is this so important to this administration that they are going to put it in no matter what? This will cost more money to an already too costly bill..................................Oh,never mind....we will save money when people are pressured into forgoing treatments. death panels.
 

Redress

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The point is I think the 1991 law is good enough. Why are we pushing a different one to the point it was taken out of the HC bill and now is being brought back in through the back door? why is this so important to this administration that they are going to put it in no matter what? This will cost more money to an already too costly bill..................................Oh,never mind....we will save money when people are pressured into forgoing treatments. death panels.

The reason for the law is end of life counseling is a good thing. As some one who has been involved in the decision on whether to pull the plug twice, it was nice the second time when we did know the wishes of the person(my father in that case, my sister in the case prior). It is something worth having covered by insurance. It has exactly jack **** to do with pressuring people into forgoing treatments, and I find your distrust of the entire medical profession distasteful.
 

CaptainCourtesy

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The point is I think the 1991 law is good enough. Why are we pushing a different one to the point it was taken out of the HC bill and now is being brought back in through the back door? why is this so important to this administration that they are going to put it in no matter what? This will cost more money to an already too costly bill..................................Oh,never mind....we will save money when people are pressured into forgoing treatments. death panels.

You were good right up until your last comment... which, again, has no basis in reality. It's nothing but your own assumption and opinion... of which you are entitled but which has no factual basis.
 

X Factor

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The reason for the law is end of life counseling is a good thing. As some one who has been involved in the decision on whether to pull the plug twice, it was nice the second time when we did know the wishes of the person(my father in that case, my sister in the case prior). It is something worth having covered by insurance. It has exactly jack **** to do with pressuring people into forgoing treatments, and I find your distrust of the entire medical profession distasteful.
Well, then you must have been really offended when Obama kept claiming doctors were just doing tests and procedures for the money. What was he said an amputation cost? $50,000?
 

CaptainCourtesy

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Well, then you must have been really offended when Obama kept claiming doctors were just doing tests and procedures for the money. What was he said an amputation cost? $50,000?

Find the quote... in context. If that's what he said and meant, I certainly would be offended.
 

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The reason for the law is end of life counseling is a good thing. As some one who has been involved in the decision on whether to pull the plug twice, it was nice the second time when we did know the wishes of the person(my father in that case, my sister in the case prior). It is something worth having covered by insurance. It has exactly jack **** to do with pressuring people into forgoing treatments, and I find your distrust of the entire medical profession distasteful.

It's the government and the socialist health care czar I don't trust.
 

tacomancer

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I don't want someone bugging me about death and how expensive my treatments are every year. Do patients ask for the counseling or is it forced on them? Are they going to ask questions like "do you sometimes feel like you are a burden to your family?"
Do you sometimes feel like your life is no longer worth living? Never, sometimes, often, very often?
I want to know that they aren't going to guide people in the direction of dying sooner rather than receiving treatments or surgeries that they need.


The new rule authorizes Medicare to pay for yearly "wellness" visits for patients, which is simply a physical and discussion between doctor and patient about "voluntary advance care planing" to discuss end-of-life treatment. Doctors will be able to provide information that will help the patient decide how aggressively they wish to be treated if and when they are too sick to decide for themselves.


Medicare to Revive End-of-Life Decision - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com

how about you actually look into it instead of asking glenn beck type scary questions.
 

CaptainCourtesy

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CaptainCourtesy

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It's the government and the socialist health care czar I don't trust.

Well, since they haven't dictated anything that you have said, you have nothing to fear. Cool... problem solved.
 

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um, barbie, i did address your post. what exactly do you think is wrong with end of life counseling?
Let's all restart this thread on Liblady's behalf. :roll:
 
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