It's all Cheney/Bush's fault

[apdst]

Sort of right. Do you think the Booms were there during Bush? Clinton? Bush I? When were they ever actually there?

You question is irrelevant. The fact is, there was boom that hadn't been deployed. Why? Because Krewe Obama ordered all oil burning stopped. Why? Why did Obama do the opposite of everything that everyone said he should do? Did he want this spill to get out of hand, or is he just a dumb ****?

 

[apdst]

To be truthful, I think it's partly Obama/Bush/BP's fault. 50%=BP. 30%=Obama. 20%=Bush. Also, I'm a fan of Obama, so don't go screaming about how conservative or anti-Obama I am.

BP: The sinking of the well was their fault, and so was their various failure to cap the sink. If they can spend billions building wells, hiring employees, and give enormous bonuses to their top people, then they can spend billions saving thousands of animal's lives. They should have acted quickly, honestly, and thoroughly

Obama: He limited the federal government's role in the cleanup. He blamed it all on BP, and made the government lie back and watch. At least, they should have helped in the cleanup. Also, the saying of "Plug the dam hole" is not so moralistic.

Bush: He let the oil companies and pretty much every part of the corporate world loose and unregulated. It's partly his fault that BP is so laid back, unregulated, and unorganized.

So, here is my opinion

Show us some examplea of how deregulation of the oil companies under Bush's administration caused this well to blow out. Thanks in advance.

 

[UtahBill]

There was an honest action plan. Your boy Obama ignored it and allowed the worst ecological disaster in US history to take place. I'm sure you're just as excited as he is at the oppurtunity to use this for political gain. Now, you can put people out of work, stop fishing which we know you treehuggers hate fishermen almost as much as oilfield hands, pass cap-n-trade, push the green agenda, etc. This is a great day for the treehuggers, eh?

Stupid, stupid, stupid....as soon as you say "your boy Obama" you identify yourself as too biased to see the light. Obama had no more input to this disaster than Bush did when Katrina hit.

The primary reason failures like this occur is human error. I worked in Navy Nuclear Power, govt owned research nuclear power, and civilian nuclear power. In the Navy, your attitude better be correct or you get people killed....yourself included. There was very little patience with someone having a lackdaisical approach to the job.
In Idaho, at the INEL (now called INEEL), I worked at 2 of the test reactors there. Some things happened that were a direct result of such an attitude. One case, I warned that something was being installed using poor practices. They said it would be OK. It wasn't OK. The $hit hit the fan.
Another case, we had a trainee operator get told to do something that he said was wrong, and he was correct. The operator did it himself, after the trainee warning him not to. The $hit hit the fan, the trainee corrected the situation, and told our bosses that the operator needs to be fired or retrained. Neither happened. The trainee quit, said he wasn't working at a nuclear facility that allow a casual approach to the job.
Similar examples are very likely to be found in the oil industry. When management allows the casual approach, you can expect the $hit to hit the fan...
At the civilian reactor, we had a couple dangerously stupid people hired as techs based on being relatives to someone else.
One was retrained, and was still stupid, and was eventuallly let go, after several years. Another was hired as a helper, trained in house to be an electrician, helped with his training all the way, and ended up a "journeyman". Other electricians who were trained elsewhere saw him for what he was right off, and some refused to work with him.

Some jobs are too sensitive for pollitics, and they need federal level administrators that are not afraid to go in the field and fire people who desperately need to be fired....

 

[Chappy]

An honest plan that said that if anything bad happens then we're all up **** creek, would never have been approved, even by Bush's MMS. But, of course, BP didn't offer an honest plan, instead they offered a dishonest plan. They lied. And Bush's MMS said *wink, wink* looks good! As evidence I offer you the news footage of the pristine Alabama gulf coast white sand beaches, pristine no more! There's no way to explain all that oil rolling up with the tide except by concluding that BP's containment strategy didn't work and there's plenty of historical evidence that it could never of worked. This is Bush's legacy, plain and simple, something for your great grandchildren to remember him by.

 

[RightinNYC]

An honest plan that said that if anything bad happens then we're all up **** creek, would never have been approved, even by Bush's MMS. But, of course, BP didn't offer an honest plan, instead they offered a dishonest plan. They lied. And Bush's MMS said *wink, wink* looks good!

With such a bold statement, I'm sure you must have compelling evidence proving that this was a proximate cause of the leak.

As evidence I offer you the news footage of the pristine Alabama gulf coast white sand beaches, pristine no more! There's no way to explain all that oil rolling up with the tide except by concluding that BP's containment strategy didn't work and there's plenty of historical evidence that it could never of worked.

....oh. Guess not.

 

[apdst]

Stupid, stupid, stupid....as soon as you say "your boy Obama" you identify yourself as too biased to see the light. Obama had no more input to this disaster than Bush did when Katrina hit.

The primary reason failures like this occur is human error. I worked in Navy Nuclear Power, govt owned research nuclear power, and civilian nuclear power. In the Navy, your attitude better be correct or you get people killed....yourself included. There was very little patience with someone having a lackdaisical approach to the job.
In Idaho, at the INEL (now called INEEL), I worked at 2 of the test reactors there. Some things happened that were a direct result of such an attitude. One case, I warned that something was being installed using poor practices. They said it would be OK. It wasn't OK. The $hit hit the fan.
Another case, we had a trainee operator get told to do something that he said was wrong, and he was correct. The operator did it himself, after the trainee warning him not to. The $hit hit the fan, the trainee corrected the situation, and told our bosses that the operator needs to be fired or retrained. Neither happened. The trainee quit, said he wasn't working at a nuclear facility that allow a casual approach to the job.
Similar examples are very likely to be found in the oil industry. When management allows the casual approach, you can expect the $hit to hit the fan...
At the civilian reactor, we had a couple dangerously stupid people hired as techs based on being relatives to someone else.
One was retrained, and was still stupid, and was eventuallly let go, after several years. Another was hired as a helper, trained in house to be an electrician, helped with his training all the way, and ended up a "journeyman". Other electricians who were trained elsewhere saw him for what he was right off, and some refused to work with him.

Some jobs are too sensitive for pollitics, and they need federal level administrators that are not afraid to go in the field and fire people who desperately need to be fired....

Obama didn't have any say about stopping the burning and refusing to allow the sand berms to be built?

 

[apdst]

An honest plan that said that if anything bad happens then we're all up **** creek, would never have been approved, even by Bush's MMS. But, of course, BP didn't offer an honest plan, instead they offered a dishonest plan. They lied. And Bush's MMS said *wink, wink* looks good! As evidence I offer you the news footage of the pristine Alabama gulf coast white sand beaches, pristine no more! There's no way to explain all that oil rolling up with the tide except by concluding that BP's containment strategy didn't work and there's plenty of historical evidence that it could never of worked. This is Bush's legacy, plain and simple, something for your great grandchildren to remember him by.

BP's containment strategy was halted by the government. And, that, is a fact. It's time for the Obama apologists to accept the fact that Obama cocked things up from the git-go.

 

[frazier991]

Well said-I think the issue is more complex than people make it-thanks for your input.

 

[Boo Radley]

You question is irrelevant. The fact is, there was boom that hadn't been deployed. Why? Because Krewe iObama ordered all oil burning stopped. Why? Why did Obama do the opposite of everything that everyone said he should do? Did he want this spill to get out of hand, or is he just a dumb ****?

That's not what your link said. It talked about Booms not on sight, and it is unclear who was responsible for it being onsight. In case you forgot, this is the link we're discussing.:

Despite plan, not a single fire boom on hand on Gulf Coast at time of oil spill | al.com

If you wnat to move to another one, let me know so I can get up on that one.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Are you kidding all of us? The lease was approved in March 2009 (which I documented, and clearly lay that on the Bush Administration). The actual drilling began in October 2009. If you think the lease was approved later, contrary to my cite, kindly provide a cite to back your claim.

So what? Are you suggesting when Obama wanted to cut the coast guards oil mitigation program, or when the administration wanted to give deepwater an award, or passed its latest safety inspection, that it was bush's fault?


jeesh.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Bush's full throated support for the oil industry led to the April 2010 BP catastrophe because he put them in charge of the regulation, duh!

“The cozy relationships between the Bush administration’s agency leadership and the industry is clear.” — Speaker Pelosi¹​

You do realize that BP was more cozy with the Obama administration right?

 

[RightinNYC]

You do realize that BP was more cozy with the Obama administration right?

On that note:

The top recipient of BP-related donations during the 2008 cycle was President Barack Obama himself, who collected $71,000.

It's also worth noting that Obama is BP's all time largest recipient of donations, having already taken in 60% more than Bush did in his eight years in office.

[BP's] registered lobbyists include a number of former federal government and high-ranking political campaign officials, including longtime political operative Tony Podesta, former congressional chief of staff Bob Brooks, former congressional legislative director David Pore and vice presidential aide Michael S. Berman

Tony Podesta runs the Podesta group, a lobbying firm he founded with his brother John Podesta:

John Podesta was the fourth and final White House Chief of Staff under President Bill Clinton from 1998 until 2001. He is currently President of the Center for American Progress, a liberal think tank in Washington, D.C, and is also a Visiting Professor of Law at the Georgetown University Law Center. Podesta was co-chairman of the Obama-Biden Transition Project.

Is this proof that Obama was tainted by BP or otherwise acted inappropriately? Of course not.
Is it evidence that the claim of a Bush/BP relationship is hilariously overblown? Yup.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

BP also was to support cap and trade and other environmentalist agendas that Obama was to push, they were the "oil company" obama touted as being behind green legislation.

 

[Chappy]

…

…
Is it evidence that the claim of a Bush/BP relationship is hilariously overblown? Yup.

Nonsense. It's evidence that Bush was already fully paid for, lock, stock and oil barrel, and these were purely “maintenance” fees.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Nonsense. It's evidence that Bush was already fully paid for, lock, stock and oil barrel, and these were purely “maintenance” fees.

lol, if someone yells for you to get out of the street because a truck is barreling down on you, do you retort with "nonsense" as well? :lamo

 

[American]

Just looking for input here. My liberal friends tell me that the BP oil leak is Dick Cheney's fault. Is this true? Anybody well read on the subject from both sides of the issue would be appreciated.

How Obama decided to expand offshore oil drilling - KansasCity.com

If you read this article, you will see the mindset of the Obama administration.....and likely that of previous administrations. "WE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM." So I don't blame Obama or Bush or Clinton or any president for not knowing something would go wrong. I blame Obama for what he focused on once the accident happened. He focused on BP, instead of the potention damage, i.e., helping the governors of the coastal states get ready for the oil coming ashore. That SHOULD have been his priority first.

 

[RightinNYC]

Nonsense. It's evidence that Bush was already fully paid for, lock, stock and oil barrel, and these were purely “maintenance” fees.

And so long as you make up your own theory for what happened re: that one graph, I guess we can just pretend that none of the other things mentioned in my post ever happened, right?

 

[Chappy]

And so long as you make up your own theory for what happened re: that one graph, I guess we can just pretend that none of the other things mentioned in my post ever happened, right?

Better than pretending, we can definitively declare that none of the other things mentioned in your post have any relevancy to the thread topic that the Gulf spill crisis is indeed all Cheney/Bush's fault.

 

[RightinNYC]

Better than pretending, we can definitively declare that none of the other things mentioned in your post have any relevancy to the thread topic that the Gulf spill crisis is indeed all Cheney/Bush's fault.

You know what else is irrelevant? "The news footage of the pristine Alabama gulf coast white sand beaches, pristine no more!"

I've been asking you over and over for evidence to support your claims and you've yet to offer anything of value.

 

[Chappy]

Contaminated beaches are definitely relevant evidence of a failed containment plan; a plan approved under the previous administration's watch. Hence, Cheney/Bush's fault.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Contaminated beaches are definitely relevant evidence of a failed containment plan; a plan approved under the previous administration's watch. Hence, Cheney/Bush's fault.

That's retarded.


Why hasn't Obama lifted the jones act that would have allowed the dutch skimmers offered on day 3 in?


The failure of the 1994 plan falls on all three administrations including the current one.

 

[Chappy]

1994 plan? … Oh, I see the difficulty now … you're talking about something irrelevant to whether this is Cheney/Bush's fault instead of the BP response plan.

But, of course, how did BP ever come to start drilling in the first place when their plans were so transparently ineffectual? It was one of attitude.

“… [A]dvances in technology have made it possible to conduct oil exploration in the OCS that is out of sight, protects coral reefs and habitats, and protects against oil spills.” — July 14, 2008, President George W. Bush announcing the rescinding of an executive order issued by his father back in 1990¹​

But, certainly, there is enough blame for many presidents to shoulder, including Obama; perhaps, the only president of recent memory who escapes blame is Jimmy Carter, who tried to curb America's oil hunger to stay within our own production capacity.

“All Cheney/Bush's fault” is too strong. Their's was an attitude of laissez-faire capitalism that is now thoroughly discredited, on Wall Street, in Detroit, and, now, the Gulf. The "something for nothing crowd" thought that "Government was the problem;" it wasn't. It was the solution born of experience from past misfortunes that untended capitalism inevitably is destructive both of others and of self.

No longer should regulators be told to stand down and let the industry moguls do their magic. These days, “mogul magic” is washing up on beaches all over the Gulf Coast. And long after the residue of this ecological catastrophe is carted away, the stain of guilt we as an oil-addicted society must bear, will linger on for many decades to come in pictures of brown pelicans unable to fly, to move, to survive.

 

[RightinNYC]

Contaminated beaches are definitely relevant evidence of a failed containment plan; a plan approved under the previous administration's watch. Hence, Cheney/Bush's fault.

If you think this is a logically supportable conclusion, there's not much else I can say.

 

[upsideguy]

How do you figure? Do you really think BP was incapable of coming up with some bull**** "action plan" in order to get this entirely routine paperwork approved?

That is the whole point.... there was no diligence. The environment at the MMS moved from being a regulatory agency to an oil industry employment center. There was NO oversight. Yes, this lax regulatory environment was a product of the previous administration. They are not responsible for the leak, they are responsible for not doing their jobs to ensure a thorough review of the disaster plan.

 

[RightinNYC]

That is the whole point.... there was no diligence. The environment at the MMS moved from being a regulatory agency to an oil industry employment center. There was NO oversight. Yes, this lax regulatory environment was a product of the previous administration. They are not responsible for the leak, they are responsible for not doing their jobs to ensure a thorough review of the disaster plan.

In order for this to be true, you'd have to show that:

1) "Diligence" would have resulted in a rejection of the proposed plans, and
2) The rejection of those proposed plans would have caused BP to change its policies in such a significant way that the leak wouldn't have happened, and
3) The lack of diligence was entirely due to the Bush Administration

I very much doubt there's anything to support those claims. There's no way in hell that "action plan" paperwork was going to prevent this leak. It's like blaming Silverstein for the collapse of the Twin Towers because he didn't follow a city regulation that required him to place a fire extinguisher in each stairwell.