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Italy in recession as Europe stalls

Westphalian

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Italy's reversion to recession, coupled with its high debt levels, adds further strain the struggling Eurozone. Can the EU cope with Brexit, populism, and the systemic risks of Italy to the Eurozone?


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/31/business/italy-recession-europe-slowdown.html

Italy has officially slipped into recession, and Europe as a whole is essentially at an economic standstill, raising anxieties that the world is on the verge of a significant slowdown.

The timing could not be worse. The lousy performance of the Italian economy, reported on Thursday, is likely to aggravate relations between the European Commission and Italy’s populist government, which has pursued spending policies widely regarded as irresponsible. Leaders on the Continent are already dealing with Britain’s messy exit from the European Union.
 
Italy's reversion to recession, coupled with its high debt levels, adds further strain the struggling Eurozone. Can the EU cope with Brexit, populism, and the systemic risks of Italy to the Eurozone?


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/31/business/italy-recession-europe-slowdown.html

Italy has officially slipped into recession, and Europe as a whole is essentially at an economic standstill, raising anxieties that the world is on the verge of a significant slowdown.

The timing could not be worse. The lousy performance of the Italian economy, reported on Thursday, is likely to aggravate relations between the European Commission and Italy’s populist government, which has pursued spending policies widely regarded as irresponsible. Leaders on the Continent are already dealing with Britain’s messy exit from the European Union.

Some day it may get as bad as Russia.
 
Classic and totally inane whataboutism :(.

And rife with implausibility. It takes a long and concerted effort to match Russia in fiscal ineptness.
 
And rife with implausibility. It takes a long and concerted effort to match Russia in fiscal ineptness.

Italy is in its third recession in 10 years and even then, does not match Russia's decline and problems.
 
Italy is in its third recession in 10 years and even then, does not match Russia's decline and problems.

Russia's GDP is about the same as Italy's GDP. Go figure :2razz:
 
Italy is in its third recession in 10 years and even then, does not match Russia's decline and problems.
Italy is always in and out of recession. The problem with journalists these days is they don't look at history nor print positives.

Sent from my Honor 8X using Tapatalk
 
And rife with implausibility. It takes a long and concerted effort to match Russia in fiscal ineptness.

Rogue Valley:

Russia is decreasing its national debt now while the USA is ballooning its debt. The national debt per capita in US dollars:

Russia $1395 per capita (2016), USA $ 62,324 per capita (2017).

Russia's national debt is about 16.3 % of GDP per annum and is falling while the US national debt is about 76.5 % of GDP per annum and is rising.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
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Please don't ever accuse me of whataboutism again.


The thread is about ITALY, but it's immediately been turned into one about Russia. Indeed, as Evilroddy alludes, the comments about Russia are not based on any sensible understanding but rather reflect the usual blind and ignorant prejudice.
 
Please don't ever accuse me of whataboutism again.


The thread is about ITALY, but it's immediately been turned into one about Russia. Indeed, as Evilroddy alludes, the comments about Russia are not based on any sensible understanding but rather reflect the usual blind and ignorant prejudice.

You have tainted practically every thread about Mother Russia with whataboutism.

Then you cry when it is done to you.

Yep, Italy is having issues. Yep, they will very likely flop flop a government and right itself. It happens.
 
Italy's reversion to recession, coupled with its high debt levels, adds further strain the struggling Eurozone. Can the EU cope with Brexit, populism, and the systemic risks of Italy to the Eurozone?


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/31/business/italy-recession-europe-slowdown.html

Italy has officially slipped into recession, and Europe as a whole is essentially at an economic standstill, raising anxieties that the world is on the verge of a significant slowdown.

The timing could not be worse. The lousy performance of the Italian economy, reported on Thursday, is likely to aggravate relations between the European Commission and Italy’s populist government, which has pursued spending policies widely regarded as irresponsible. Leaders on the Continent are already dealing with Britain’s messy exit from the European Union.

Fiscal problems around the world are worse than what is generally reported, even in the US. I believe a worldwide financial collapse similar to what almost happened in 2008 will likely be the opening for the anti-Christ to assume major power over the world markets in possible fulfillment of Biblical prophecy. There are other indications in the Bible that the US could possibly be decimated in fiery destruction at the outset of the coming tribulation.
 
Rogue Valley:

Russia is decreasing its national debt now while the USA is ballooning its debt.

While the US statement is true and the Russia statement is true, you neglect to mention that living conditions and wages in Russia are falling, or that the pension age has been increased.

Why do you do this all the time? Only tell half the story?
 
Yep, Italy is having issues. Yep, they will very likely flop flop a government and right itself. It happens.


Thanks for your informative analysis :roll:.


Because Italy's long history of changing governments has not righted its economic problems in the past, so your whole premise is risible.
 
While the US statement is true and the Russia statement is true, you neglect to mention that living conditions and wages in Russia are falling, or that the pension age has been increased.

Why do you do this all the time? Only tell half the story?

Rogue Valley:

Living conditions and real wages/incomes are also decreasing in the United States and in Italy. Life-expectancy, literacy and real income are all down in America and income polarity is way up as concentration of wealth in America is hollowing out the American middle class. So I am not stating only half the story at all. Life in Russia is harder and harsher for most Russians than life in Italy or America is for their citizens. But that is due to the collapse of the Soviet Union and the follow-on economic collapse which gripped Russia from the mid-1980's until recently. Mr. Putin has reversed that collapse and is slowly improving things for run of the mill Russians. His methods are corrupt and oligarch-oriented but they are producing results which are nonetheless real. If you want to argue that he could have improved the Rusdian economy and the lives of most Russians more by making different choices, then I'm right there with you. But he still has improved things and compared to the mess that is Italian politics and fiscal responsibility Mr. Putin's Russia has not faired poorly. Compared to the US fiscal insanity in the post Cold War period the Russian strong-man and thug-in-chief has done well. He could have done far better however, and that is where legitimate criticism should be directed against the Putin Regime. That and it's militarism and deteriorating human rights record.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Since the thread about Italy has been hijacked by blatant Whataboutism, I think this summary captures most of you:

https://irrussianality.wordpress.com/2018/07/25/resilient-russia/


There is a particular breed of Russia watcher who likes to predict the country’s imminent collapse. For such ‘experts’, Russia is perpetually on the brink of social unrest, instability, and possibly even revolution. The apparent popularity of President Vladimir Putin and the seeming strength of the Russian state are just facades hiding a seething cauldron of discontent which is likely to boil over the moment that the state opens up the lid by relaxing the forces of repression. The ‘Putin regime’, in other words, is doomed. It’s just a matter of time.

You’ve no doubt read this sort of thing. It’s pretty common. So too is another type of analysis which maintains that Russia is stuck in terminal economic decline. The only way out of this is ‘deep structural reform’, but the ruling regime is incapable of carrying out such reform, as it would undermine the interests of the oligarchic clans which prop it up. Barring regime change, the only way Russia can do is down.

The fact that the Putin regime stubbornly refuses to collapse or even show any tangible signs of serious weakness doesn’t deter pundits from repeating these ideas.
 
Rogue Valley:

Living conditions and real wages/incomes are also decreasing in the United States and in Italy. Life-expectancy, literacy and real income are all down in America and income polarity is way up as concentration of wealth in America is hollowing out the American middle class. So I am not stating only half the story at all. Life in Russia is harder and harsher for most Russians than life in Italy or America is for their citizens. But that is due to the collapse of the Soviet Union and the follow-on economic collapse which gripped Russia from the mid-1980's until recently. Mr. Putin has reversed that collapse and is slowly improving things for run of the mill Russians. His methods are corrupt and oligarch-oriented but they are producing results which are nonetheless real. If you want to argue that he could have improved the Rusdian economy and the lives of most Russians more by making different choices, then I'm right there with you. But he still has improved things and compared to the mess that is Italian politics and fiscal responsibility Mr. Putin's Russia has not faired poorly. Compared to the US fiscal insanity in the post Cold War period the Russian strong-man and thug-in-chief has done well. He could have done far better however, and that is where legitimate criticism should be directed against the Putin Regime. That and it's militarism and deteriorating human rights record.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

You're way out of touch.

https://www.debatepolitics.com/euro...ountry-s-course-hits-12-year-high-russia.html
 
Thanks for your informative analysis :roll:.


Because Italy's long history of changing governments has not righted its economic problems in the past, so your whole premise is risible.

The concept that Italy will swap governments and crawl out of the hole is "risible"?

It is what Italy tends to do.

And it tends to work.
 
The concept that Italy will swap governments and crawl out of the hole is "risible"?

It is what Italy tends to do.

And it tends to work.



:shock::shock:


I feel like this is a parallel universe of insanity.


Do you know anything about Italy's economy?
 
The European Union will have to come to terms with the North-South polarity and disparity which is increasing in Europe. The union is working far better for the states in the northern part of the union than the states in the southern part of the union in economic terms. The loss of national currencies has removed the tool of monetary policy from the member states. The larger economies of the big northern states and their smaller satellite state economies are being better served by the monetary policies of the European Union, which tailors its interventions to better serve the larger economies of the north. The southern states are thus not so well served, have no monetary mechanisms to control their money supply and languish with moribund economies, great debt, high debt service fees and more economic and political instability. The union is working reasonable well for France, Germany and Poland and the smaller northern satellite economies near those three major players but is not working well for Portugal and European states along the Mediterranean basin (with the exception of France).

What is needed is an equalisation payment mechanism which redistributes regional weath from the 'have' member states to the 'have not' member states in order to bolster the southern states' economies and deliver them from the seemingly permanent stagnation which they find themselves in as part of the European project. It the EU is to be a commonwealth designed to lift up the lives of all Europeans as much as possible then the north-south regional disparity must be addressed somehow or economic stagnation and failure will be the lot of the south and the union will likely fracture.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
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Please don't ever accuse me of whataboutism again.


The thread is about ITALY, but it's immediately been turned into one about Russia. ...............~
That kinda tends to happen when a Russian vomits forth on practically any European country and in the process shows to be totally clueless about any European country.

The ignorant are subjected to suggestions of going home and sweeping the doorstep they might know (although even that is doubted).
 
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