It is now illegal to film Police Officers while on duty

[Ikari]

Its not fund raising. The three bolded sections are all I need to realize your not even reading what I state and taking it into consideration, that I deal with statistics on what we do on a regular basis. So, whatever, believe what you want to.

Might want to check outside, I heard the cops are in your neighborhood today.

It is part fund raising for sure. I have already given you all the evidence that supports such claim. Furthermore, you did not elaborate on your "statistics", so one has to assume that you couldn't answer the questions. The fines which comes with things like photo enforcement from the vans are very light and will not cause behavioral modification. Nor is there any indication that they actually cause any amount of behavioral modification.

I have given logical argument. All you've said is "Nuh uh...I've seen the statistics." That's it. Nothing beyond that meek and meager "counter-argument". As I said, it's completely obvious that you won't see past anything the State tells you to see past. You can't even entertain the notion that the 10's of millions of dollars some States rake in every year from photo enforcement is nothing short of fund raising. You were already demonstrated wrong on the signs and the photo vans, so now we're supposed to take your word about these "statistics" you've "seen" but cannot comment on? The one who is blind here is not me.

 

[Tucker Case]

There is a thing called a "YELLOW LIGHT" it tells people that the red light is coming and they should prepare. This means slowing down appropriately, which yellow lights give individuals plenty of time to do.

Just a point about this. Chicago has the fastest yellow lights I've ever seen. The lights practically blink from green to yellow to red in the time it takes to check your rearview mirror. This is probably why Chicago has seen an increase in rear end collisions since installing the red light cams.

Anecdotally, there is less hard braking in the suburbs that have these cameras than there is in the city itself.

 

[Caine]

Just a point about this. Chicago has the fastest yellow lights I've ever seen. The lights practically blink from green to yellow to red in the time it takes to check your rearview mirror. This is probably why Chicago has seen an increase in rear end collisions since installing the red light cams.

Anecdotally, there is less hard braking in the suburbs that have these cameras than there is in the city itself.

Probably because Aggressive driving folks in the City aren't driving safely?

Dunno, sounds pretty simple to me.

"In the city" one has less space to get to a high speed, thus needing less time to slow down in response to a yellow light.

Long yellow light cycles would actually encourage people to see if they can get through before the light changes when the average speed travel is low.

 

[Ikari]

Probably because Aggressive driving folks in the City aren't driving safely?

Dunno, sounds pretty simple to me.

But the cameras make them drive safely!

 

[Caine]

But the cameras make them drive safely!

Never said that, I said they encourage some folks to drive more safely.

 

[Ikari]

So it's behavior modification which doesn't really work all that well? Is this the modification to the argument then?

 

[Tucker Case]

Probably because Aggressive driving folks in the City aren't driving safely?

Dunno, sounds pretty simple to me.

"In the city" one has less space to get to a high speed, thus needing less time to slow down in response to a yellow light.

Long yellow light cycles would actually encourage people to see if they can get through before the light changes when the average speed travel is low.

Not really. Its not that hard to get up to the speed limit in Chicago. I'm not sure if you've ever been here or driven here, but I can tell you with certainty that it isn't hard. These lights are so fast that if you are traveling at 30 miles per hour you have to brake very hard in order to stop at the intersection. Especially if the light switches while you are checking your mirrors (which you are supposed to do regularly) or while a city bus is in front of you blocking your view of the light (pretty friggin' common).

Or it could be like the light at Belmont and the Expressway where the Expressway's overpass is completely blocking the streetlight (there's also a red light camera there) so that you don't see that there is even a light at that intersection until you are about 30 ft from the intersection.

I actually avoid that particular intersection altogether due to all the rear end collisions there.

Don't forget, this is Chicago I'm talking about here. Corruption is the name of the game.

I'm not saying that red light cameras are bad in general, just that Chciago is not worried about safety.

Granted, this means that the research listed earlier shouldn't be extrapolated to all places with red light cameras.

 

[Caine]

So it's behavior modification which doesn't really work all that well? Is this the modification to the argument then?

Ive already stated there is little to nothing the government can do to change some people's desire to do what the **** they want to do.

Even with public hangings people still killed others......

The fact that it works on a good deal of other people is enough for me.

 

[Ikari]

Ive already stated there is little to nothing the government can do to change some people's desire to do what the **** they want to do.

Even with public hangings people still killed others......

The fact that it works on a good deal of other people is enough for me.

That "fact" has not been substantiated in any way. And for particular locals, proper counter-example has been given.

 

[Caine]

Not really. Its not that hard to get up to the speed limit in Chicago. I'm not sure if you've ever been here or driven here, but I can tell you with certainty that it isn't hard. These lights are so fast that if you are traveling at 30 miles per hour you have to brake very hard in order to stop at the intersection. Especially if the light switches while you are checking your mirrors (which you are supposed to do regularly) or while a city bus is in front of you blocking your view of the light (pretty friggin' common).

Following too closely.

Or it could be like the light at Belmont and the Expressway where the Expressway's overpass is completely blocking the streetlight (there's also a red light camera there) so that you don't see that there is even a light at that intersection until you are about 30 ft from the intersection.

We have one like that on Arrowwood. Its pretty chitty civil engineering if you ask me.

I actually avoid that particular intersection altogether due to all the rear end collisions there.

Sad part is I'd be willing to bet most of those crashes occurr between folks who know the intersection.

Don't forget, this is Chicago I'm talking about here. Corruption is the name of the game.

So Ive heard.

I'm not saying that red light cameras are bad in general, just that Chciago is not worried about safety.

Well, didn't they ban handguns? lol

 

[Psychoclown]

Just a point about this. Chicago has the fastest yellow lights I've ever seen. The lights practically blink from green to yellow to red in the time it takes to check your rearview mirror. This is probably why Chicago has seen an increase in rear end collisions since installing the red light cams.

Anecdotally, there is less hard braking in the suburbs that have these cameras than there is in the city itself.

I read an article in the Tribune stating that Chicago had the legal limit for the quickest yellow lights. While most suburbs have far longer yellow lights, leading to many suburbanites who are unused to Chicago's quick lights to get nailed. Now, this is going only on my own memory and experience, but I don't recall Chicago always having such quick yellow lights. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the lights were changed shortly after Chicago embraced these cameras.

 

[Psychoclown]

LOL. You just showed the perfect example of drivers blaming their bad driving habits on cameras.

Stopping suddenly because of Cameras actually means stopping suddenly because the light turned red.

There is a thing called a "YELLOW LIGHT" it tells people that the red light is coming and they should prepare. This means slowing down appropriately, which yellow lights give individuals plenty of time to do.

Blaming a Camera on idiot driving practices just goes to show you probably need some driving refreshers.

Whether or not it's because of bad driving habits (aren't nearly all if not all accidents due to someone driving improperly?), there is clearly a correlation between increased rear end collisions and these cameras. Which really undermines the argument that they are there to reduce accidents.

 

[Tucker Case]

Following too closely.

Who said that the busses were actually being followed when they are blocking the light? Not every light in the city is an overhead one. A bunch of them are only on the side of the road, right where the bus will stop to let people on and off.

Not only that, but they'll try to run you off the road when they decide to merge into your lane without using a turn signal. And they are probably the worst offenders for blowing red lights in the city. But don't get me started on how ****ed up the driving of bus drivers is around here. Beteween them and the cab drivers, I've come to the conclusion that being functionally retarded is a job requirement in order to get hired as a professional driver in this city.

We have one like that on Arrowwood. Its pretty chitty civil engineering if you ask me.

We've got loads of them. Each one gets equipped with the red light camera because stupid politicians blame people's driving habits for their ****ty choices to hire incompetent civil engineers (who are probably their cousin or something).

Sad part is I'd be willing to bet most of those crashes occurr between folks who know the intersection.

I'm not sold on that. As psychoclown pointed out the burbs have a normal length yellow light. A good proportion of the crashes that occur here are people from the 'burbs not being used to the yellow lights, let alone knowing which intersections to avoid. Hell, my friends and I have conversations about the ****tiest intersections and lights in the city.

Another problem that the suburbanites aren't used to is that in Chicago, when one direction's light goes red, the other direction goes green simultaneously. There's absolutely no delay. In the burbs, there is a 1 or 2 second delay before the other direction goes green. So idiots form the burbs often start going simply because the light in front of them is green, while there is still some guy who's view of the light was blocked by a bus on the side of the road who can't stop in time.

Well, didn't they ban handguns? lol

Yeah. And crime rose for about 10 years afterward, but they ignore those years. :lol:


Seriously though, if Chicago really was worried about safety, they'd change the lights so the switch from red to green in one direction didn't occur simultaneously with the change from green to red in the other direction. Granted it is other people's bad driving habits that are at fault (gunning it off the line and such) but doing that would actually prevent more accidents than the cameras do.

 

[Tucker Case]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the lights were changed shortly after Chicago embraced these cameras.

Nah, they've been like this my whole life. The cameras have only been here for a couple of years. Its just proof that, at least where Chicago is concerned, safety is not the priority of those red light cameras. Only an idiot would actually believe what our politicians tell us.

Unfortunately, we've got a lot of idiots in this town.

 

[Caine]

Meh, I dunno then. Never been to Chicago except to the airport on a flight from NC to Mexico. Somehow we managed to go up to Chicago and back down to Texas... seemed kinda stupid.

Anyways I dunno if I was there fore more than like 1 hour at most.

 

[deltabtry]

I can't see this holding up to constitutional muster, after all it's the tax payer who is the F'en boss here, and we should start acting like we are instead of accepting whatever the government wants to shove down out throats.

 

[Psychoclown]

Nah, they've been like this my whole life. The cameras have only been here for a couple of years. Its just proof that, at least where Chicago is concerned, safety is not the priority of those red light cameras. Only an idiot would actually believe what our politicians tell us.

Unfortunately, we've got a lot of idiots in this town.

Anyone who believes the words of a Chicago politician is probably also investing in oceanfront property in Arizona. Either that or helping a deposed Nigerian prince smuggle his fortune out of the country.

 

[Tucker Case]

Meh, I dunno then. Never been to Chicago except to the airport on a flight from NC to Mexico. Somehow we managed to go up to Chicago and back down to Texas... seemed kinda stupid.

I'm surprised they didn't swing you on over to LA for a bit just to keep things consistently baffling.

Anyways I dunno if I was there fore more than like 1 hour at most.

If you could completely get rid of the politics and most of the weather we get, it's a great city.

Great food, good people (the one's that aren't idiots), awesome professional sports (Aside from the Cubs, but I'm no Cubs fan), entertainment, etc.

The politics is what causes the stupidity with the street lights. Think of it this way, all of my buddies that are Chicago cops (and being Irish, that's quite a few) can't stand the way the city does things with regards to traffic signals. It makes their jobs harder.

 

[The Giant Noodle]

I'm surprised they didn't swing you on over to LA for a bit just to keep things consistently baffling.



If you could completely get rid of the politics and most of the weather we get, it's a great city.

Great food, good people (the one's that aren't idiots), awesome professional sports (Aside from the Cubs, but I'm no Cubs fan), entertainment, etc.

The politics is what causes the stupidity with the street lights. Think of it this way, all of my buddies that are Chicago cops (and being Irish, that's quite a few) can't stand the way the city does things with regards to traffic signals. It makes their jobs harder.

I live near Ohare. I dont like CHicago. The traffic is crap. The parking is INSANE! $35 for 10 hours to park. Sometimes its even more. People here are not friendly. Cubs fans are superficial yuppie ass-hats. The job market is poor. The crime rate is about average. Winters are BRUTAL. The cost of living is crazy-high too. The taxes are very high on everything. Heck, my friend pays $14,000 a year on property taxes! ANd he doesnt even live in a upper class area. If my father didnt live here I would move away in heartbeat.

 

[Tucker Case]

I live near Ohare.

Hey, so do I! Howdy neighbor! :2wave: