• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

It angers me when coaches completely lose their balls on 4th down

Last week I think the Patriots only runs were a Brady sneak and 3 kneeldowns in the 2nd half. Forever disproving the adage that "you have to have balance" or "you have to run" to win the game. No, you don't have to do anything. You attack the opponent where he is weakest. Belichick realized pretty quickly that trying to run against one of the league's best run defenses was futile.

And he has the quarterback and the receivers to make that happen. He might not have one top wide receiver but he has a good number of them who can all get a catch and a touch down. And that's even without his Tight ends and running backs who can run and can catch if and when they need to.
 
Agree with OP. The Hawks are my team but they got almost totally dominated on both sides of the ball. I can't believe we were only down 19 pts at halftime. The Packers clenched defeat from the jaws of victory last night and surely were the end of their own season.

Props to my Haws for never giving up. Need better pass protection on the outside and better discipline WRT penalties before we're ready for Phoenix though.
 
Actually think that Ron is starting to get it

Carolina Panthers' 'Riverboat Ron' Rivera backing decisions with big data | CharlotteObserver.com

RiverBoatRon.trademark.330.png

See, but he got that name because he went for it on 4th down a couple of times when he should have!! But he still punts when he shouldn't, he still goes for it on 4th and inches with the same 2 plays every time. It's all very predictable. As you said about the Pats, they attack the opponent when they find a weak spot - the Panthers will continue forcing issues that are shown not to work.

I feel bad bringing it up, because I think it was in his first year as head coach, but there are two games in particular that really made me question Ron Rivera's ability to coach a team. I think it was 2011 (maybe 2012), and the Panthers had a lead against the Saints. They were up 1 or 2 points, and they had the ball near mid-field. On 3rd on short, they tried the usual QB sneak from shotgun, Newton fumbled, recovered, and did not get the first down. On 4th and short, rather than go for it (statistically speaking he should have), he punted.

This worked out well for him, luckily, as he pinned the Saints into their own 1 yd line. They had no time outs, I don't think, and about 1 minute to get 60 yds for a long field goal. The Panthers proceed to play a cover 2 defense, and as I recall, we blitzed our best CB (Gamble) off the corner!! So we only have 2 deep, our RCB gets burned and our safety couldn't make the play - it was either Julio or Roddy, I can't remember who, but a 40 or 50 yd first play. Of course the Falcons kicked the field goal to win.

Then, like two weeks later, they were in a similar situation vs the Bears. Except this time, the Bears had the ball with like 4 minutes. The Panthers literally played the softest coverage I have ever seen. I think Brandon Marshall caught like 4-5 8 yd little slant/hook routes in a row. So not only did the Bears easily drive down the field, but since the defense was soft, they didn't get burned and it bled the clock out. The Bears kicked a FG with little time left and won the game.

I like Ron, but I think he's got a long way to go. I don't think Cam is utilized as effectively as possible (he's not Aaron Rogers so quit having him try to play like Aaron Rogers!!). Meh, I get frustrated thinking about it.

And my Hornets are a ****ing mess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
See, but he got that name because he went for it on 4th down a couple of times when he should have!! But he still punts when he shouldn't, he still goes for it on 4th and inches with the same 2 plays every time. It's all very predictable. As you said about the Pats, they attack the opponent when they find a weak spot - the Panthers will continue forcing issues that are shown not to work.

I feel bad bringing it up, because I think it was in his first year as head coach, but there are two games in particular that really made me question Ron Rivera's ability to coach a team. I think it was 2011 (maybe 2012), and the Panthers had a lead against the Saints. They were up 1 or 2 points, and they had the ball near mid-field. On 3rd on short, they tried the usual QB sneak from shotgun, Newton fumbled, recovered, and did not get the first down. On 4th and short, rather than go for it (statistically speaking he should have), he punted.

This worked out well for him, luckily, as he pinned the Saints into their own 1 yd line. They had no time outs, I don't think, and about 1 minute to get 60 yds for a long field goal. The Panthers proceed to play a cover 2 defense, and as I recall, we blitzed our best CB (Gamble) off the corner!! So we only have 2 deep, our RCB gets burned and our safety couldn't make the play - it was either Julio or Roddy, I can't remember who, but a 40 or 50 yd first play. Of course the Falcons kicked the field goal to win.

Then, like two weeks later, they were in a similar situation vs the Bears. Except this time, the Bears had the ball with like 4 minutes. The Panthers literally played the softest coverage I have ever seen. I think Brandon Marshall caught like 4-5 8 yd little slant/hook routes in a row. So not only did the Bears easily drive down the field, but since the defense was soft, they didn't get burned and it bled the clock out. The Bears kicked a FG with little time left and won the game.

I like Ron, but I think he's got a long way to go. I don't think Cam is utilized as effectively as possible (he's not Aaron Rogers so quit having him try to play like Aaron Rogers!!). Meh, I get frustrated thinking about it.

And my Hornets are a ****ing mess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I laughed when you guys signed Lance Stephenson lol...
 
I completely agree - the team that is down should in theory start taking more risks. The problem in this case is that the team that was up took so few risks after getting up, that it ended up costing them the game. They played not to lose and it came back and bit em in the ass.
You could see it in their eyes when they came out to start the second half. Please dont screw up...please oh please dont screw up. It was the same look the guy had on his face when he muffed the onside kick. That has to come from somewhere...and I believe it comes from the head coach.

That is why I am so glad the Broncos got rid of John Fox. Good technical coach but he plays not to lose (which usually means you lose in big games).
 
I laughed when you guys signed Lance Stephenson lol...

We are a study in how you can have talent and lose when you live and die by the worst shot in the game - the long two. Our line ups:

1) Kemba - Shoots the 3 at an ok clip (maybe slightly below avg rate)
2) Henderson - Doesn't shoot the 3
3) MKG - Doesn't shoot the 3
4) Cody - Doesn't shoot the 3
5) Big Al - Doesn't shoot the 3

Holy ****! How do we score or space the floor? Nothing is more frustrating than watching them try to dump it down to Al, the teams collapse on him, so he either forces it up, or kicks it out to a guy who is standing at the 3-point line, pump fakes (because he can't shoot it), and tries the most predictable dribble-drive ever.

6) Brian Roberts - Decent 3-point shooter
7) PJ Hairston - Could be a great 3-point shooter. Is a rookie and inconsistent.
8) Lance - I think he's shooting 18% from three this year?
9) Marvin Williams - Meh. Not the worst PF 3-point shooter.
10) Bismack Biyombo - Need I say more?
11) Gary Neal - Streaky

So on the entire team of 11 playable guys, we have 5 guys who can somewhat shoot a 3-pointer, and 3 of them come off the bench! In my opinion, that's the entire problem with the team. Well, not the entire problem, but definitely the biggest problem.
 
We are a study in how you can have talent and lose when you live and die by the worst shot in the game - the long two. Our line ups:

1) Kemba - Shoots the 3 at an ok clip (maybe slightly below avg rate)
2) Henderson - Doesn't shoot the 3
3) MKG - Doesn't shoot the 3
4) Cody - Doesn't shoot the 3
5) Big Al - Doesn't shoot the 3

Holy ****! How do we score or space the floor? Nothing is more frustrating than watching them try to dump it down to Al, the teams collapse on him, so he either forces it up, or kicks it out to a guy who is standing at the 3-point line, pump fakes (because he can't shoot it), and tries the most predictable dribble-drive ever.

6) Brian Roberts - Decent 3-point shooter
7) PJ Hairston - Could be a great 3-point shooter. Is a rookie and inconsistent.
8) Lance - I think he's shooting 18% from three this year?
9) Marvin Williams - Meh. Not the worst PF 3-point shooter.
10) Bismack Biyombo - Need I say more?
11) Gary Neal - Streaky

So on the entire team of 11 playable guys, we have 5 guys who can somewhat shoot a 3-pointer, and 3 of them come off the bench! In my opinion, that's the entire problem with the team. Well, not the entire problem, but definitely the biggest problem.

Speaks to how, when constructing a roster, your players have to mesh well and complement each other, it's not enough just to stockpile talent. Stephenson has always struck me as a bit overrated - accumulating triple doubles doesn't necessarily make you a star option on offense. Also I'm amazed at the MKG selection so high a couple years ago - i was basically doing cartwheels that draft because I wanted the Wizards to take Beal, after there was a lot of MKG talk.
 
Well sure. As a liberal, you would object to conservative play calling. :2razz:



I'm joking. I actually agree. It looked to me like they just didn't believe the Seahawks could comeback and played very lackluster in the last 5 minutes or so.
I don't think anyone thought they were going to come back.
 
Speaks to how, when constructing a roster, your players have to mesh well and complement each other, it's not enough just to stockpile talent. Stephenson has always struck me as a bit overrated - accumulating triple doubles doesn't necessarily make you a star option on offense. Also I'm amazed at the MKG selection so high a couple years ago - i was basically doing cartwheels that draft because I wanted the Wizards to take Beal, after there was a lot of MKG talk.

Man, no doubt. I do like MKG a lot, and he shows flashes of being a really good player... but damn, Beal is awesome. Lillard was another guy in the draft, right? But there was no way the Bobcats would have taken him since they were grooming Kemba. Not to mention, John Wall is becoming an absolute stud. He's been good, but he's becoming ridiculous lately.

Speaking of that, did you see Steph Curry's steal, no-look pass the other night? How the **** did he do that?
 
Back
Top Bottom