It’s time to admit Hillary Clinton is an extraordinarily talented politician

[bubbabgone]

LET'S THINK CLEARLY
...

The FBI is conducting a Security review.


White House press secretary Josh Earnest said Thursday that President Obama
won't interfere with 'any criminal investigation' like the one Hillary Clinton faces
over classified documents in her private emails.

That little bastard said what?​

 

[Fearandloathing]

Experience, yes, I'm gonna guess so. Some more than others. Some in different ways than others.


Good policy/bad policy arguments dont really matter in this context. Per the example I gave earlier, I think Ronald Reagan is a scumbag, I think his policies were terrible for America, and much of the world, especially in Latin America. However, I cant deny that he was a skilled politician. Politics is essentially the process of convincing people and/or institutions to carry out policies that you are in favor of and/or influence legislative policies, and is also the art/process of getting in power and or remaining in power if you deem that is an action you want to take.

Lame, just ****ing lame.

Thank you for demonstrating there are none. accomplishments, she never did anything Americans can be proud of.

You had your chance, and failed with that insulting bull**** about policy......

 

[moth33]

Will she use her power well? At least, better than Trump? I think so...

Power In The Public Eye – Power Poll

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Yes, she is an extraordinarily talented politician. This is a fact.

That does not make her an extraordinarily good person.
And it remains to be seen what kind of President she makes.

I think she will go down in history as the worst President in relation to her predecessor, who will go down in history as an 'OK' President.

 

[MorrisDay]

Yes, she is an extraordinarily talented politician. This is a fact.

That does not make her an extraordinarily good person.
And it remains to be seen what kind of President she makes.

I think she will go down in history as the worst President in relation to her predecessor, who will go down in history as an 'OK' President.

I think she will be the next President and the U.S. will continue down the same path of decline we've been on for the last 8 years. With HROD in charge we may reach the bottom.

 

[eohrnberger]

Will she use her power well? At least, better than Trump? I think so...

Power In The Public Eye – Power Poll

:lamo Goes to a 'rate a candidate' web site and then draws a conclusion based on their confirmation bias, and then believes we should believe it. :lamo

 

[Lafayette]

Yes, and so? BFD, what harm was done?

And, how about the incident of 5 million emails that were "lost" when a similar investigation was started in the Bush2 administration. I'll bet Cheney has them all on a USB-key in a safe a mile underground with the hole filled.

Moveover, how about the same sort of "crime" during the Bush2 administration? See Bush White House email controversy

Excerpt:

The Bush White House email controversy surfaced in 2007 during the polemic involving the dismissal of eight U.S. attorneys. Congressional requests for administration documents while investigating the dismissals of the U.S. attorneys required the Bush administration to reveal that not all internal White House emails were available.

Conducting governmental business in this manner is a possible violation of the Presidential Records Act of 1978, and the Hatch Act. Over 5 million emails may have been lost. Greg Palast claims to have come up with 500 of the Karl Rove emails, leading to damaging allegations. In 2009, it was announced that as many as 22 million emails may have been lost.

The administration officials had been using a private Internet domain, called gwb43.com, owned by and hosted on an email server run by the Republican National Committee, for various communications of unknown content or purpose.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone ...
________________________________________

 

[roguenuke]

That's right.
That's what this guy

says and he's not kidding.


Itâ€[emoji769]s time to admit Hillary Clinton is an extraordinarily talented politician - Vox

You've herd the expression making a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
Apt in more ways than one here.

He couches his reasons in the most loving ways.

Like ...
He says Hillary is relentless rather than ambitious.
He mentions the server and Goldman Sachs in passing ... but doesn't use the word "lie" or "liar" or Clinton Foundation or Benghazi.
He talks about how she rose to the nomination ... but doesn't mention that every Democrat except Bernie essentially sat it out because they knew it was supposed to be her turn.
He mentioned Hillary's unspoken deal with the Party establishment. No argument from me there but I'm not sure that's a National plus this year.
He said you can't attribute her success to her husband ... but she's using the same Clinton machine and friendly journalists ... like Ezra ... and would she be where she is if there never was a Bill.
And that's true of other politicians who found themselves at the top courtesy of their families.


But this piece goes to show you what a lovely picture the right word choices can make at the right keyboard.
We'll be getting more just like it.

[side note - Ezra Klein has written for several outlets but this was in VOX and one of the VOX editors has that string of tweets endorsing ... wait for it ... violence at Trump rallies.]

On the Bill thing, is not choosing a spouse for political reasons something that could be considered a good political decision? At the time Bill was elected, the nation wasn't quite ready for a woman to be President. But her name became well known for him being President and she was not regarded as just another First Lady, uninvolved in politics. She was seen as very much involved, possibly even making some of the decisions. This could be seen as a very shrewd political move. People like familiarity.


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[roguenuke]

She's a talented party machine administrator. I wouldn't say she's a talented politician. She just got given a serious run for her money by a 74 year old version of Doc from Back to the Future.

One of the things Hillary doesn't seem to have us charisma. She is otherwise a very talented politician but she isn't very charismatic. On the other hand, Sanders and even Obama have charisma, at least more than her. They can appeal especially to younger people better than she can. And Bill has loads of charisma which is actually why marrying him could be seen as a very good move on Hillarys part. He provides her with a good, likable personality that people can bridge to her.


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[bubbabgone]

On the Bill thing, is not choosing a spouse for political reasons something that could be considered a good political decision? At the time Bill was elected, the nation wasn't quite ready for a woman to be President. But her name became well known for him being President and she was not regarded as just another First Lady, uninvolved in politics. She was seen as very much involved, possibly even making some of the decisions. This could be seen as a very shrewd political move. People like familiarity.


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I believe Bill & Hill were wedded the year before Bill became Arkansas A.G and he had already begun a political career in DC years earlier.
So while I'm not completely sure what you're suggesting, if it's that identifying a skilled and ambitious person and marrying them to advance your own ambitions is a smart political move, then you get no argument from me.
But that doesn't change the fact that she very likely wouldn't be where she is without Bill, his skills, his background, his machine, and his marriage.

 

[bubbabgone]

You wanted a war with Iran and are mad that Bin Laden is dead I know. But that is nuts.

Lol...due tell. What was "her roll in killing Bin Ladin"? Gasping at a video screen?

Let's be serious here.
We've all seen that iconic photo in the situation room the night the Seals killed Bin Laden



because the Seals killed Bin Laden.

But this is what we would have seen if they hadn't ...

 

[roguenuke]

I believe Bill & Hill were wedded the year before Bill became Arkansas A.G and he had already begun a political career in DC years earlier.
So while I'm not completely sure what you're suggesting, if it's that identifying a skilled and ambitious person and marrying them to advance your own ambitions is a smart political move, then you get no argument from me.
But that doesn't change the fact that she very likely wouldn't be where she is without Bill, his skills, his background, his machine, and his marriage.

Not necessarily. I think she would have found someone else very much like Bill to advance her own ambitions. And it's their marriage. As I said Bill is very charismatic, unlike Hillary, but he also comes off much of the time as laid back and too bright. Not saying he isn't smart only that he can be perceived that way due to his demeanor. Hillary on the other hand comes off as shrewd and calculating. Even in the 90s many saw her as running the Presidency while Bill slept with other women.

And all politicians have and need connections. You do not survive in politics without some sort of connections. Some few are able to make it to office with little to none, but that is rare.


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[TheDemSocialist]

Lame, just ****ing lame.

Thank you for demonstrating there are none. accomplishments, she never did anything Americans can be proud of.

You had your chance, and failed with that insulting bull**** about policy......

:lamo As usual everything must be littered about discussion if you agree with policy or not agree with policy. Thats really not what this discussion is about at all... But continue on.

 

[faithful_servant]

Leader and politician are not mutually exclusive. Politicians are often time leaders. The President of the USA is one of the, if not the highest political office in the land. Political offices are occupied by politicians. The President is also considered the "leader" of the country as well.

I never said that they were, in fact I said the exact opposite. What they are though, are separate skillsets and trying to substitute one for the other has caused great harm to this country. We've filled positions of leadership with people who lack leadership skills, but are strong politicians. What we need are leaders who have political skills, but what we've gotten are politicians with poor leadership skills.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

I never said that they were, in fact I said the exact opposite. What they are though, are separate skillsets and trying to substitute one for the other has caused great harm to this country. We've filled positions of leadership with people who lack leadership skills, but are strong politicians. What we need are leaders who have political skills, but what we've gotten are politicians with poor leadership skills.

To be a good politician you essentially need to have strong leadership skills.

 

[Fishking]

Libya was a humanitarian crisis that Hillary did not create and she was not alone in her disappointment at the outcome. Hillary was one of the voices that favored of the mission that killed Bin Laden and stuck her neck out for the outcome which was far from certain. Why bother asking for accomplishments when you really don't care? You just don't like Democrats and wish that dunce GW Bush was still President I'm sure.

"disappointment at the outcome"?! You mean that crap hole that it turned into after they created a power vacuum? I mean, how stupid is she?

 

[iguanaman]

"disappointment at the outcome"?! You mean that crap hole that it turned into after they created a power vacuum? I mean, how stupid is she?

If only it was Hillary's idea to oust Ghadaffi you might have a point. Libya was a humanitarian crisis that was first addressed by the Europeans and Nato. How clueless can you be?

 

[faithful_servant]

To be a good politician you essentially need to have strong leadership skills.

Nope. We have legislature's across this country that are filled to the brim with politicians who are crappy leaders. All politicians have to do is create an image of success to keep getting re-elected, leaders have to actually have success to continue being leaders.

 

[Fearandloathing]

:lamo As usual everything must be littered about discussion if you agree with policy or not agree with policy. Thats really not what this discussion is about at all... But continue on.

Get off it

I asked you to list FIVE accomplishments of Hillary Clinton that Americans can be proud of. You failed to list one and created a bull**** snowman about "policy"

You can't even point to where it was Hillary's own policy and not her carry Obama's water.

Not one!

Now you're going to add in a whole bunch of made up **** about "policy" that cannot be verified blah, blah, blah.

You're the same as Trump supporters, all smoke and ****ed up mirrors

 

[bubbabgone]

Not necessarily. I think she would have found someone else very much like Bill to advance her own ambitions. And it's their marriage. As I said Bill is very charismatic, unlike Hillary, but he also comes off much of the time as laid back and too bright. Not saying he isn't smart only that he can be perceived that way due to his demeanor. Hillary on the other hand comes off as shrewd and calculating. Even in the 90s many saw her as running the Presidency while Bill slept with other women.

And all politicians have and need connections. You do not survive in politics without some sort of connections. Some few are able to make it to office with little to none, but that is rare.


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I don't think we're far off from each other on this.
I'm just saying she wouldn't be where she is without Bill.
To me, whether she could have hooked up with someone else that served the same purpose is beside the point.
Shrewd and calculating only worked for her because she had someone to get her into a position she could exploit.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Nope. We have legislature's across this country that are filled to the brim with politicians who are crappy leaders. All politicians have to do is create an image of success to keep getting re-elected, leaders have to actually have success to continue being leaders.

State politicians and national politicians are two incredibly different levels of politics.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Get off it

I asked you to list FIVE accomplishments of Hillary Clinton that Americans can be proud of. You failed to list one and created a bull**** snowman about "policy"

You can't even point to where it was Hillary's own policy and not her carry Obama's water.

Not one!

Now you're going to add in a whole bunch of made up **** about "policy" that cannot be verified blah, blah, blah.

You're the same as Trump supporters, all smoke and ****ed up mirrors

And I've told you in my analysis of someone being a skilled politician opinions of ones policies does not matter.

 

[Fearandloathing]

And I've told you in my analysis of someone being a skilled politician opinions of ones policies does not matter.

I DID NOT ASK about policies or anything else you're babbling about.

I asked you to name five accomplishments of Hillary that Americans can be proud of.

Then I dropped to one.

Clearly, despite you talking around it and throwing out misty straw men, you CANNOT list even one.

Therefore you, by default, concede she has done nothing of the time.

UNLESS you have that suggestion, just one little thing Hillary has accomplished that Americans can be proud of, your posts are a waste of everyone's time and you, by your actions, reveal yourself to be dishonest in offering up policy-wonk googly gook instead.

 

[faithful_servant]

State politicians and national politicians are two incredibly different levels of politics.

With the same set of problems... Being politicians first and leaders second among the worst of them.

 

[roguenuke]

I don't think we're far off from each other on this.
I'm just saying she wouldn't be where she is without Bill.
To me, whether she could have hooked up with someone else that served the same purpose is beside the point.
Shrewd and calculating only worked for her because she had someone to get her into a position she could exploit.

Everyone needs others. Most people, especially politicians (most anyway) have someone else to help them gain popularity somehow, whether they provide knowledge when needed, money, being a persons father, or other.




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