Israel's butchering of Lebanon = a complete military failure (1 Viewer)

[Symmetrical_Argument]

Yesterday in the last day before the ceasefire, Hizbollah launched over 200 rockets into Israel. This shows that after a month of trying to defeat Hizbollah, by bombing appartment blocks & UN posts, Israel's war in Lebanon has been a total waste of time & inhumane failure militarily.
Surprise surprise, Israel have managed to prove in the last month what anyone with an IQ over 10 already knew, that you can't get rid of a few terrorists mostly in dug outs & tunnels & banana plantations scattered across hundreds of square miles of rural areas, by bombing civilians in city appartment blocks.
1100 Lebanese mostly civilians dead. Many of them still rotting under collapsed apartment blocks & still Hizbollah are able to launch over 200 rockets into Israel in one day. The infra structure of Lebanon, a pro western country who's economy had been in recovery, is now in ruins. The Western business people who were helping their economy recover have been driven away.
How did Israel ever think they could rid a country of terrorists by bombing it ?
It was as crass & callous & as strategically inept as if the UK had bombed Ireland when the IRA were setting off bombs in the UK.
In the end the solution predictably has been a diplomatic one, rather than a military one comprising mass murder being committed by Israeli F16 pilots.
Of course one can argue Israel has achieved one objective, namely Hizbollah have agreed to a ceasefire, but not until Israel themselves agreed to the ceasefire, something Israel could have done two or three weeks ago & in the process could have saved hundreds of lives.

 

[Jay R]

In the end the solution predictably has been a diplomatic one,

Aww, and you were doing so well up until this. :roll:

The 'solution' is of course nothing of the sort, Lebanon is incapable of preventing Hizbollah (Iran/Syria by proxy) from operating as it wishes in it's territory, and the UN force is simply there to watch the terrorist group rearm ready for the next round. The fact of the matter is that this resolution is Mr Mackay policy from Koffi and the UN, "War is bad, m'kay?" :rofl

I would never patronise the Israelis with such hypocrisy, everyone in the UN council chamber knows that Israel was perfectly within it's rights to make war on Lebanon, they all know that they would not hesitate to do the same if it was their nation under attack. And history will bear this out, there have been resolutions in the past that have been ignored, there have been ceasefires and even periods of peace in the past, to no avail (save the pause for rearmament), and once again the international community in it's infinite wisdom has advocated avoiding true resolution in favour of delaying the bloodshed for another day, drawing out the disaster that is the Middle-East conflict ever longer. And why? Simply because they lack the confidence to take a side. Hezbollah made war on Israel, Hezbollah is Lebanon by virtue of the fact that it is not challenged by the Lebanese people, they must be taken in to be in accord with it.

It is endemic of a culture of appearances before actions in all politicians today, Blair and Bush did not stand up and say Israel is perfectly justified not because they don't think that, rather they don't want people to think that they think it, both at home and in the international community. The UN did not condemn Hezbollah as terrorist, a proxy for other nations or even as the cause of the conflict, not because it does not know that to be true, but rather because it does not wish to be forthright with such facts for fear of polarising the issue, ironically that polarisation would have been for the benefit of the region. If at the start of the conflict the Lebanese had condemned Hezbollah and chosen to side with Israel against it's own terrorist minority and the US and EU given such an operation their complete support then we could be talking about a terrorist minority pushed out into Syria following a historic co-operation between a modern Arab nation and the Jewish state. The present impasse in the international community is a significant factor allowing terrorism to thrive, while the nation states avoid choosing an allegiance terrorist groups are hijacking a power traditionally the preserve of state actors (the making of war) for their own ends (Ends clearly established as those of a minority, even within Islam).

What I'm saying is that avoiding conflict is no 'solution', as you put it. Granted it means that you don't have to fight a war, but at the same time it guarantees that your children will have to.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

I don't see the problem.. The animals attacked them with rockets and the Isaelis responded. They caused a lot more devistation then the animals did.. They win. No in 2 weeks you can not wipe these animals out. It may take two years or two decades. The objest is to pound them and those that assist them into utter and total subbmission continiously until there just isn't enough of them to be a problem. This includes the civilians that aid them and the other countries such as Syria and Iran. These countries need to be leveled, and started again. Is there contribution tot he global fabric worth the cost of the destruction they bring?

 

[Volker]

I would never patronise the Israelis with such hypocrisy, everyone in the UN council chamber knows that Israel was perfectly within it's rights to make war on Lebanon, they all know that they would not hesitate to do the same if it was their nation under attack.

They knew it?
Why should anyone in the UN security council even agree with this nonsense?

It is endemic of a culture of appearances before actions in all politicians today, Blair and Bush did not stand up and say Israel is perfectly justified not because they don't think that, rather they don't want people to think that they think it, both at home and in the international community.

Yes, they care so much all the time, what people think about them.
This must be true especially for Tony Bla who plans to step back next year.

What I'm saying is that avoiding conflict is no 'solution', as you put it. Granted it means that you don't have to fight a war, but at the same time it guarantees that your children will have to.

Israel could have easily avoided this conflict.

They can lower the risk of a next conflict by leaving Lebanon and the chances are not bad that they do so within 10 days.

They can lower the risk of a next conflict by solving the Chebaa farms and the Golan Heights problem.

They can lower the risk of a next conflict by becoming serious negotiation partner to the Palestinians.

 

[Volker]

I don't see the problem.. The animals attacked them with rockets and the Isaelis responded. They caused a lot more devistation then the animals did.. They win.

Ironically, Mr. Olmert actually tried to turn this in a win.
Probably this is the best thing to do to keep his own folks in line.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Ironically, Mr. Olmert actually tried to turn this in a win.
Probably this is the best thing to do to keep his own folks in line.

There is only one way to beat the terrorist. Thats to kill them ALL. It is a battle of attrition. They will not stop until there numbers have been desimated to the point were it is just not possible to continue. There is no barganing with them, your only slowingthe inevitable.

 

[Volker]

There is only one way to beat the terrorist. Thats to kill them ALL.

Look at this again.

How did Israel ever think they could rid a country of terrorists by bombing it ?
It was as crass & callous & as strategically inept as if the UK had bombed Ireland when the IRA were setting off bombs in the UK.

The IRA stopped, the ETA stopped (I hope it lasts) and the same goes to terrorists in Italy (Brigate Rosso), France (Action Directe), West Germany (RAF) and Belgium (CCC). None of these countries has been bombed because there were terrorists there.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Look at this again.


The IRA stopped, the ETA stopped (I hope it lasts) and the same goes to terrorists in Italy (Brigate Rosso), France (Action Directe), West Germany (RAF) and Belgium (CCC). None of these countries has been bombed because there were terrorists there.

Your talking about 2 totally different types of people and terrorist with comlpetely seperate ideals.We are fighting a group today that are completely and fundamentally opposed to our exsistence. If we left them alone they would still be opposed to our exsistence. They are willing to die in large numbers to kill only a few, and are willing to kill mass amounts of innocent people to prove there point

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Killing for your cause is easy... Dying for it is a whole nother apple. Giving ones life in a suicide attack is again a different animal. Fighting for a cause is one thing, a belief is another...

 

[Volker]

Your talking about 2 totally different types of people and terrorist with comlpetely seperate ideals.

This is true, these are 2 totally different types. The approaches will be adapted to adress this, I guess, but to bomb a country does not sound reasonable to me.

 

[Volker]

Killing for your cause is easy... Dying for it is a whole nother apple. Giving ones life in a suicide attack is again a different animal. Fighting for a cause is one thing, a belief is another...

None of these are easy.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

None of these are easy.

If you fire rockets into my country reason goes out the window pretty fast. I have to protect myself. And to do that against a people willing to kill as many people as it takes to annihilate you can only be done in one way... And that is to dessimate them. Until that happens you'll only have pauses before attacks occur over and over again,

 

[Voidwar]

This is true, these are 2 totally different types. The approaches will be adapted to adress this, I guess, but to bomb a country does not sound reasonable to me.

Sure it does, when its your Hezbollah buddies doing it . . .:roll:

The Lebanese are paying the price of their ongoing complicity and collaboration.

Walk peacefully into your parliament house with a Hezbollah member, and you are guilty.

 

[Volker]

If you fire rockets into my country reason goes out the window pretty fast. I have to protect myself. And to do that against a people willing to kill as many people as it takes to annihilate you can only be done in one way... And that is to dessimate them. Until that happens you'll only have pauses before attacks occur over and over again,

It looks, there is another way, that's why they have a cease fire now.

 

[Volker]

The Lebanese are paying the price of their ongoing complicity and collaboration.

The Lebanese are essentially victims of an avoidable war.

 

[Symmetrical_Argument]

The Lebanese are essentially victims of an avoidable war.

You've summed it up nicely there Volker.

Killing for your cause is easy... Dying for it is a whole nother apple. Giving ones life in a suicide attack is again a different animal. Fighting for a cause is one thing, a belief is another...

That's irrelevant. Anyone with two brain cells can see that bombing city apartment blocks full of civilians simply is no way to knock out Hizbollah fighters that were mostly hiding in rural tunnels, dug outs & banana plantations, regardless of whether or not those fighters are prepared to die for their cause.
It didn't look much to me as if the heaps of dead Lebonese civilians wanted to die for some fanatical Muslim cause. They simply did not want to die.... period. They simply wanted to live, to care for their families & see them grow up, just as you or I might.
Israel's tactics have simply been those of the indiscriminate bully & the thug.
They have been the strategy of moronic bully boy generals with no intelligent strategy & politicians from a nation that likes to look down on terrorists & think it's above terrorism when in fact the last month has proved that it's as bad as them.
It's used it's high tech armoury to kill ten times as many civillians in the last month than a few idiots with Katyushas. Frankly I don't know why the Israelis bothered to buy half million dollar laser guided bombs. They might as well have used basic ones for all they cared.

 

[Voidwar]

The Lebanese are essentially victims of an avoidable war.

You say "avoidable", and betray your ignorance of Hezbollah.

Go read Hezbollah's charter, and find out why your assertion is absolutely incorrect.

 

[Volker]

It didn't look much to me as if the heaps of dead Lebonese civilians wanted to die for some fanatical Muslim cause. They simply did not want to die.... period. They simply wanted to live, to care for their families & see them grow up, just as you or I might.

This is how I see things, too.

 

[Volker]

You say "avoidable", and betray your ignorance of Hezbollah.

Go read Hezbollah's charter, and find out why your assertion is absolutely incorrect.

It is not incorrect. Don't you have an argument to work with?

 

[cherokee]

Its is a failure of sorts.......They didn’t wipeout all of the Hezbolla...

 

[cherokee]

Originally Posted by Symmetrical_Argument
It didn't look much to me as if the heaps of dead Lebonese civilians wanted to die for some fanatical Muslim cause. They simply did not want to die.... period. They simply wanted to live, to care for their families & see them grow up, just as you or I might.

If that’s the case they need to boot the son of bitches (hezbolla) out of Lebanon!
Otherwise………Deal with it!
I think I heard it called "Its time to cowboy the fook up"

 

[Voidwar]

Link
from : Hezbollah "Manifesto"

Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements, whether separate or consolidated.

 

[Volker]

Link
from : Hezbollah "Manifesto"

Yes, they wrote this, probably under the impression of the Lebanon Civil War and to distinct themselves from Amal.

This is not necessarly their policy, like we saw with the exchange in January 2004 and the current cease fire, which hopefully lasts.

 

[Voidwar]

So this is them on paper, but you claim they are lying here ?

If so, why draw up new papers with a batch of liars ?

 

[Vader]

They knew it?
Why should anyone in the UN security council even agree with this nonsense?

Yes, they care so much all the time, what people think about them.
This must be true especially for Tony Bla who plans to step back next year.

Israel could have easily avoided this conflict.

They can lower the risk of a next conflict by leaving Lebanon and the chances are not bad that they do so within 10 days.

They can lower the risk of a next conflict by solving the Chebaa farms and the Golan Heights problem.

They can lower the risk of a next conflict by becoming serious negotiation partner to the Palestinians.

Your arguments are clearly in support of terrorists and their actions. Why is that?

This whole situation exists because of Iran. Hezbollah is an Iranian construct, which needs to be wiped out. Iran's government, especially, the mullahs and the Ayetolietbowl, need to be exterminated. They are evil shitte hate-mongers who do nothing but cause strife.



You really should be ashamed of yourself for supporting terrorists and terrorism.

:roll: