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Israelis permitted to have 3,000 year memory, Palestinians permitted 60 year memory (1 Viewer)

robin

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Time and time again we see this theory. It's OK for Israelis to hark back a hundred and fifty generations ago in their claim to the land of Israel. However the Palestinians and the other arabs booted off the land 60 years ago are just supposed to forget it.

Here's what Einstein thought of rampant zionists:
Incidently, It's remarkable how differently two Jewish cosmologists can see things isn't it ?

http://www.globalwebpost.com/farooqm/study_res/einstein/nyt_letter.html

"Letters to the New York Times
December 4, 1948

New Palestine Party
Visit of Menachem Begin and Aims of Political Movement Discussed

TO THE EDITORS OF THE NEW YORK TIMES:

Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the “Freedom Party” (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.

The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin’s political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.

Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Begin’s behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement.

The public avowals of Begin’s party are no guide whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.

Attack on Arab Village

A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants — 240 men, women, and children — and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin.

The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party.

Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destruction of free trade unions. In their stead they have proposed corporate unions on the Italian Fascist model.

During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute.

The people of the Freedom Party have had no part in the constructive achievements in Palestine. They have reclaimed no land, built no settlements, and only detracted from the Jewish defense activity. Their much-publicized immigration endeavors were minute, and devoted mainly to bringing in Fascist compatriots.

Discrepancies Seen

The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a “Leader State” is the goal.

In the light of the foregoing considerations, it is imperative that the truth about Mr. Begin and his movement be made known in this country. It is all the more tragic that the top leadership of American Zionism has refused to campaign against Begin’s efforts, or even to expose to its own constituents the dangers to Israel from support to Begin.

The undersigned therefore take this means of publicly presenting a few salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of urging all concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism.

(signed)

Isidore Abramowitz, Hannah Arendt, Abraham Brick, Rabbi Jessurun Cardozo, Albert Einstein, Herman Eisen, M.D., Hayim Fineman, M. Gallen, M.D., H.H. Harris, Zelig S. Harris, Sidney Hook, Fred Karush, Bruria Kaufman, Irma L. Lindheim, Nachman Maisel, Symour Melman, Myer D. Mendelson, M.D., Harry M. Orlinsky, Samuel Pitlick, Fritz Rohrlich, Louis P. Rocker, Ruth Sager, Itzhak Sankowsky, I.J. Schoenberg, Samuel Shuman, M. Znger, Irma Wolpe, Stefan Wolpe

New York, Dec. 2, 1948"
 
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"Permitted"? What complete nonsense.

If the people who now call themselves Palestinians have any history beyond 60 years, it is up to them to prove it. Who were their leaders? Where is their art and literature that is distinctly Palestinian? Why don't they speak a distinct Palestinian language?

THis may be difficult to grasp for such an obviously bigoted person such as yourself, but the reason Palestinian history only goes back this short time is that there were no people who called themselves Palestinian before this time. It's really that straightforward. Culturally, they are Arabs and did not distinguish themselves as "Palestinian" until there was a political motivation for doing so. THAT is the reason there is no history beyond this short time.
 
Re: Israelis permitted to have 3,000 year memory, Palestinians permitted 60 year memo

Gardener said:
THAT is the reason there is no history beyond this short time.
Oh fine then. Just scrub the word "Palestinian" from my sentence which says "the Palestinians and the other arabs booted off the land 60 years ago".
Happy now ?
 
Moderator's Warning:
Mr. Bach... Please read the rules of this forum. Articles are not to be posted/pasted in their entirety. Post a snippet of the opening paragraph and provide a URL link that points to the entire article. It is also incumbant upon you to provide copyright credit where and when applicable.
 
Re: Israelis permitted to have 3,000 year memory, Palestinians permitted 60 year memo

JSBach said:
Oh fine then. Just scrub the word "Palestinian" from my sentence which says "the Palestinians and the other arabs booted off the land 60 years ago".
Happy now ?


Dealing with willful ignorance and antisemitism is really not the source of happiness for me.

Get a real education, and not just one based upon your perusal of internet propaganda sites.
 
Re: Israelis permitted to have 3,000 year memory, Palestinians permitted 60 year memo

Gardener said:
Dealing with willful ignorance and antisemitism is really not the source of happiness for me.

Get a real education, and not just one based upon your perusal of internet propaganda sites.
Wow you underpin your argument with such powers of reason by crying 'anti semite'.
You forgot the other mindless cliches: 'liberal, Jew hating, left wing'... bla bla bla bla bla bla. Incidently I never realised Einstien was into propaganda.
Gee if only I was as edumackated as you LOL
 
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Re: Israelis permitted to have 3,000 year memory, Palestinians permitted 60 year memo

Tashah said:
Moderator's Warning:
Mr. Bach... Please read the rules of this forum. Articles are not to be posted/pasted in their entirety. Post a snippet of the opening paragraph and provide a URL link that points to the entire article. It is also incumbant upon you to provide copyright credit where and when applicable.
Yes miss ;-)
 
Re: Israelis permitted to have 3,000 year memory, Palestinians permitted 60 year memo

JSBach said:
Wow you underpin your argument with such powers of reason by crying 'anti semite'.
You forgot the other mindless cliches: 'liberal, Jew hating, left wing'... bla bla bla bla bla bla. Incidently I never realised Einstien was into propaganda.
Gee if only I was as edumackated as you LOL


You are obviously not a liberal.

Just an ordinary antisemite.

I have read enough of your postings to determine that.
 
Re: Israelis permitted to have 3,000 year memory, Palestinians permitted 60 year memo

JSBach said:
Time and time again we see this theory. It's OK for Israelis to hark back a hundred and fifty generations ago in their claim to the land of Israel. However the Palestinians and the other arabs booted off the land 60 years ago are just supposed to forget it.

Here's what Einstein thought of rampant zionists:
Incidently, It's remarkable how differently two Jewish cosmologists can see things isn't it ?

http://www.globalwebpost.com/farooqm/study_res/einstein/nyt_letter.html

Must I point out to yet another poster the flaw in using Einstein as an authority on Israel. This is the Argumentum ad verecundiam (argument or appeal to authority) logical fallacy. Just because Einstein (a brilliant physicist) said something about politics, an area he had no expertise in, does not cause it to augment a position any more than an average person's opinion.

More basically, you offer no evidence that Palestinians were 'booted off' their land. A small percentage were forced to leave (about 50,000 in the towns of Lydde and Ramle), but most of the rest chose to leave due to their awareness of the impending Arab nations' attack on Israel. Also the right of return has been in effect since UN Resolution 194, though Palestinians have refused to honor article 11, effectively nullifying it.
 
Re: Israelis permitted to have 3,000 year memory, Palestinians permitted 60 year memo

CaptainCourtesy said:
Must I point out to yet another poster the flaw in using Einstein as an authority on Israel. This is the Argumentum ad verecundiam (argument or appeal to authority) logical fallacy. Just because Einstein (a brilliant physicist) said something about politics, an area he had no expertise in, does not cause it to augment a position any more than an average person's opinion.
This is not true. Mr. Einstein was a very political person, actively engaged in parties and organizations. He helped to establish the German Democratic Party, for instance. This party was in the government coalition in the early Weimar Republic and can be seen as one of two precursor parties of the Liberal Democratic Party, which make it to 14 % in the polls nowadays in Germany.

CaptainCourtesy said:
More basically, you offer no evidence that Palestinians were 'booted off' their land. A small percentage were forced to leave (about 50,000 in the towns of Lydde and Ramle), but most of the rest chose to leave due to their awareness of the impending Arab nations' attack on Israel.
You offer no evidence for what you say here, too.

CaptainCourtesy said:
Also the right of return has been in effect since UN Resolution 194, though Palestinians have refused to honor article 11, effectively nullifying it.
There are laws in Israel to regulate immigration, the right to return is clearly not given because of these laws.
 
Re: Israelis permitted to have 3,000 year memory, Palestinians permitted 60 year memo

Volker said:
This is not true. Mr. Einstein was a very political person, actively engaged in parties and organizations. He helped to establish the German Democratic Party, for instance. This party was in the government coalition in the early Weimar Republic and can be seen as one of two precursor parties of the Liberal Democratic Party, which make it to 14 % in the polls nowadays in Germany.

Being a 'political person' does not denote expertise, therefore, his political position is no more valuable than yours or mine. JSBach (and many others) use this article as evidence against the formation of Israel. Invoking Einstein's name to make this more relevant is illogical.

You offer no evidence for what you say here, too.

I've posted links on this before. It's very late here...I'll post them tomorrow after I get some sleep. :yawn: Sorry about not posting them immediately...not like me. :3oops:

There are laws in Israel to regulate immigration, the right to return is clearly not given because of these laws.

I believe that the right of return and Resolution 194 would supercede those laws if the Palestinians complied with Article 11 (live peacefully with their neighbors), though I'll have to take a closer look.
 
Re: Israelis permitted to have 3,000 year memory, Palestinians permitted 60 year memo

CaptainCourtesy said:
Being a 'political person' does not denote expertise, therefore, his political position is no more valuable than yours or mine. JSBach (and many others) use this article as evidence against the formation of Israel. Invoking Einstein's name to make this more relevant is illogical.
This is a letter, it is not a scientific analysis about politics in the Middle East. I'm pretty sure, he was expert enough to understand this topic. To have well-known persons to sign letters is to get more attention for the issue.

CaptainCourtesy said:
I've posted links on this before. It's very late here...I'll post them tomorrow after I get some sleep. :yawn: Sorry about not posting them immediately...not like me. :3oops:
No problem, we discussed the topic before and only to come to the conclusion, that there are different schools of historians who say different things.

CaptainCourtesy said:
I believe that the right of return and Resolution 194 would supercede those laws if the Palestinians complied with Article 11 (live peacefully with their neighbors), though I'll have to take a closer look.
Israel ignored the UN General Assembly Resolution 3236, which calls for a right to return of the Palestinians, so why should they care for Resolution 194?
 
Re: Israelis permitted to have 3,000 year memory, Palestinians permitted 60 year memo

CaptainCourtesy said:
Being a 'political person' does not denote expertise, therefore, his political position is no more valuable than yours or mine. JSBach (and many others) use this article as evidence against the formation of Israel. Invoking Einstein's name to make this more relevant is illogical.


I might point out, too, that Einstein is demonstrably JEWISH. Virulent haters throughout the internet use one tactic quite commonly, which is to choose Jewish voices to support their agenda of attacking the Jewish state, and by doing so they hope to avoid notice of their underlying antisemitism. These haters inevitably bring forth the (what is extremely tiny) number of orthodox Jews who are against Zionism or quote nutjobs like Israel Shahak in order to try to substantiate their point of view. This represents a certain call to authority, but one based upon ethnicity, and is a very transparant ruse easily identified by anyone who studies the rhetorical arsenal employed by those motivated by their hatred.

It isn't that the Jewish people HAVE a long, 300 year history, they have been PERMITTED to have that history. The fact that there were once thriving Jewish communities throughout the Arab world to the tune of a million people and now there are scant thousands due to persecution and harassment means nothing because there is only one type of refugee -- that which serves the purpose of the hatred. Any person with a fair mind and who has actually studied the history of this conflict would recognize that there were more Jewish refugees from Arab lands than there were Arab refugees from what is now Jewish lands, and so if one is to talk about refugees, one needs to talk about ALL of the refugees, and not just the ones that serve the rhetorical purposes of the bigoted point of view.
 
Couple of facts about Israel

1. Israel became a state in 1312 B.C., two millennia before Islam.

2. Arab refugees from Israel began calling themselves "Palestinians" in 1967, two decades after (modern) Israeli statehood in 1948.

3. After conquering the land in 1272 B.C., Jews ruled it for a thousand years and maintained a continuous presence there for 3,300 years.

4. The only Arab rule following conquest in 633 B.C. lasted just 22 years.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem was the Jewish capital. It was never the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even under Jordanian rule, (East) Jerusalem was not made the capital, and no Arab leader came to visit it.

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the bible, but not once is it mentioned in the Qur'an.

7. King David founded Jerusalem; Mohammed never set foot in it.

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem; Muslims face Mecca. If they are between the two cities, Muslims pray facing Mecca, with their backs to Jerusalem.

9. In 1948, Arab leaders urged their people to leave, promising to cleanse the land of Jewish presence. 68% of them fled without ever setting eyes on an Israeli soldier.

10. Virtually the entire Jewish population of Muslim countries had to flee as the result of violence and pogroms.

11. Some 630,000 Arabs left Israel in 1948, while close to a million Jews were forced to leave the Muslim countries.

12. In spite of the vast territories at their disposal, Arab refugees were deliberately prevented from assimilating into their host countries. Of 100 million refugees following World War 2, they are the only group to have never integrated with their co-religionists. Most of the Jewish refugees from Europe and Arab lands were settled in Israel, a country no larger than New Jersey, USA.

13. There are 22 Muslim countries, not counting Palestine. There is only one Jewish state.

14. Fatah and Hamas constitutions still call for the destruction of Israel.
Israel ceded most of the west bank and all of Gaza to the Palestinian authority, and even provided it with arms.

15. During the Jordanian occupation, Jewish holy sites were vandalized and were off limits to Jews. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian holy sites are accessible to all faiths.

16. Out of 175 United Nations Security Council resolutions up to 1990, 97 were against Israel; out of 690 general assembly resolutions, 429 were against Israel.

17. The U.N. was silent when the Jordanians destroyed 58 synagogues in the old city of Jerusalem. It remained silent while Jordan systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives, and it remained silent when Jordan enforced apartheid laws preventing Jews from accessing the temple mount and western wall.

18. Arabs started all five wars against Israel, and lost every one of them
 
Another thread dedicated to the support of suicide bombers and a backwards society whilst bashing Isrealites? How droll.

1) If you are going to use history to prove the rights of Palestinians to the land, then use all of history, which clearly shows the true rights of the land, and not just the select points.

2) Unless you are referring to Palestinia/Syriana then there is no such thing as "Pasletine."

3) Palestinians have been ruled by Romans, Persians, and Arabs throughout history. They have never been owners and have always been second class citizens. The best treatment and true freedom that they could have hoped for was under Israeli rule and protection as other Muslmis now enjoy, however, they sought to find support from the very individuals who would oppress them and use them to wage a fabricated wars based on the manifestation of hate.

As this has occurred for the last 60 years....we have the westerners in Europe and America who sit on the sideline criticizing every move, but not really understanding anything. Some even make threads on web sites. For perspective on this, one only needs to look at the UN reaction towards Israel over the last couple decades. They conveniently dismiss acknowledgement, as they criticize Israel's willingness to protect itself, that it was the UN that gave the land back to Jews in the first place.
 
Re: Israelis permitted to have 3,000 year memory, Palestinians permitted 60 year memo

The Balfour agreement states in regard to making Palestine or whatever you want to call it, an Israeli state:
"The provision of it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

The zionists were having none of this. The letter that Einstien signed shows the civil rights of some arabs were more than prejudiced. Their right to not be murdered by racist psycopathic zionists such as Menachim Begin, Israels equivalent of Zarqawi or Bin Laden, was prejudiced.
The annexation of Palestine by the zionists bares much resemblance to Hitler's racist annexation of the Sudetanland. The philosophy there being: There are some ethnic Germans there, so anyone else there can GTF out of it !
Any American that agrees with this form of taking things by force should be prepared to hand their property/land back to the Indians.
We have those zionists zealots to thank for starting the reciprocal violence in 1948.
 
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Re: Israelis permitted to have 3,000 year memory, Palestinians permitted 60 year memo

JSBach said:
Any American that agrees with this form of taking things by force should be prepared to hand their property/land back to the Indians.

And once again..you are being selective about your use of history to show ownership. How far back are you going?

1) Is your feeble stage built around the notion that that land belongs to Muslims, because Israel took it back in 1948?

2) Or is your feeble stage built around the notion that that land belongs to the Brits before the UN gave it back to the Jews?

3) Or is your feeble stage built around the notion that that land belongs to the Turks before the Brits took it?

4) Or is your feeble stage built around the notion that that land belongs to the Arabs before the Turks took it?

5) Or is your feeble stage built around the notion that that land belongs to the Persians before the Arabs took it?

6) Or is your feeble stage built around the notion that that land belongs to the Romans before the Persians took it and allowed Jews to return to the land?

7) Or is your feeble stage built around the notion that that land belongs to the Greek before the Romans took it and eventually declared Israel to be stricken from the land and renamed it as they celebrated the expulsion of Jews?

8) Or is your feeble stage built around the notion that that land belongs to the Babylonians before the Greek took it?

Now we are getting to a part of history where we are seeing the beginnings. Some historians regard it as part of a wave of migration of semitic-speaking peoples out of the Arabian Peninsula, while others suggest that they had been there ever since the original Semitic emigration from Africa. Of course, we are talking roughly around 1200 BC. Where in history did you want start with regards of Palestinian ownership?

As far as your feeble attempts to declare that America belongs to the Native Americans....where was this great Indian government that owned this land and was taken by force? You assume that a simple mentioning of the pioneering of America by Europeans and the later slaughtering of Indians by the U.S. Army passes as some sort of creedance to your distortions of history. There was no American government before the European colonist or pioneer showed up and there was no force of siezure by Jews in 1949. Both are legacies of Europe (England specifically) and today Europe is doing it's best to wash its hands.

JSBach said:
Thank you Israel for starting the cycle of reciprocal violence in 1948.

So.....not thank you to the UN or the Brits in 1949...but thank you to Israel? I believe the accusations of "anti-Semite" were in order.
 
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JSBach said:
Incidently, It's remarkable how differently two Jewish cosmologists can see things isn't it?
A cheap shot Mr. Bach. Nevertheless...

Although Jewish, Einstein was never overtly religious. He was an assimilated German Jew. As others here have pointed out, it is disingenuous and illogical to assume or claim that Einstein's genius in the physical sciences confers an über-status upon him in political or social science. Doing so would be akin to claiming that Carl Sagan must have been a political savant because he excelled in Comparative Planetology. Do you understand this Mr. Bach?

Your argument also implicitly assumes that Einstein was beyond miscalculation or mistake. Perhaps you are unaware, but Einstien was not a good mathemetician and assigned this facet of his work to assistants. He made his share of mistakes such as the Cosmological Constant. Additionally, he also failed to grasp certain aspects of physics such as the reality of quantum-wave-functions. Not even Einstein is infallible.

Mr. Bach. Simply because two people share a discipline does not mandate that they must exist in perfect symmetry and harmony. Per your OP, you are being intellectually dishonest in using Einstein as an indisputable scythe against Israel. You also assume that he would today re-sign this manifesto that is over half a century old.

JSBach said:
It's remarkable how differently two Jewish cosmologists can see things isn't it?
Do you really want to travel here Mr. Bach? Your sentiment grants neither cosmologist individuality simply because they are both Jewish. This bondage in turn implies that Jewish ethnicity somehow trumps intellectual honesty and independence. Your subtle cheap-shot here actually reveals more about you than me Mr. Bach.
 
Re: Israelis permitted to have 3,000 year memory, Palestinians permitted 60 year memo

JSBach said:
Their right to not be murdered by racist psycopathic zionists such as Menachim Begin, Israels equivalent of Zarqawi or Bin Laden, was prejudiced.
The annexation of Palestine by the zionists bares much resemblance to Hitler's racist annexation of the Sudetanland. .


emperor09.jpg


Feel the hate, my young apprentice.......
 
Re: Israelis permitted to have 3,000 year memory, Palestinians permitted 60 year memo

Tashah said:
Your argument also implicitly assumes that Einstein was beyond miscalculation or mistake. Perhaps you are unaware, but Einstien was not a good mathemetician and assigned this facet of his work to assistants. He made his share of mistakes such as the Cosmological Constant.
Additionally, he also failed to grasp certain aspects of physics such as the reality of quantum-wave-functions. Not even Einstein is infallible.
Really Tashah to try and demene the greatest intellect since Newton so as to supposedly undermine his concerns about the behaviour of some zionists is preposterous if not laughable.
No one is infallible so by your logic no one can be quoted LOL
I quoted Einstien becuase he had the well informed view of someone that supported the idea of the state of Israel, actively took part in it and who obviously had an incomparable intellect.
Just because he had Marcel Grossman point him in the right direction of the Italian geometers to help him form General Relativity and he abandoned the cosmological constant, when he should have kept it, how by your warped logic does that invalidate in anyway whatsoever his concern over this:
"Attack on Arab Village
A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants — 240 men, women, and children — and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem."

Clearly there can be such a high degree of assymetry between Jewish cosmologists as to be mildly disturbing !
Were it not for the fact Einstien signed something that must be acutely embarassing to you, I don't think you would have been so quick to pick holes in him.
Please remember, just as I am concerned about Arab civilians I am also concerned about Jewish civilians.
In fact labels are meaningless to me. Whilst Einstien showed space and time are relative, I've no doubt he believed as I do there are absolute rights and absolute wrongs. Humanitarianism is universal and not prejudiced by man made nationalistic labels. An Arab that loses his home to a zionist has as much right to be aggrieved as a jew that loses his home to a Nazi.
Of course I could use the argument that with you being an even more fallible Jewish cosmologist than Einstien, your arguments are therefore even more worthless, but I'll refrain from resorting to your tack, because the tack of fallible Jewish cosmologist must be worthless :smile:
Oh what fun set theory, circular arguments and contradiction can be :2razz:
 
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Re: Israelis permitted to have 3,000 year memory, Palestinians permitted 60 year memo

You still aren't getting it. I've said it, Gardener said it, Tashah said it. The point here is that just because Einstein signed the letter isn't any more meaningful than if anyone else, not an expert in in politics, signed it. THAT is what is meant by the appeal to authority logical fallacy. It is akin to saying that because Steven Hawking says that Brittany Spears music is terrible, that this opinion is more valuable because Steven Hawking said it.

I will speak for myself. I am not poking holes in Enstein's brilliance. Just that his political views are no more valuable than anyone else's just because he's Einstein.
 
Re: Israelis permitted to have 3,000 year memory, Palestinians permitted 60 year memo

Volker said:
This is a letter, it is not a scientific analysis about politics in the Middle East. I'm pretty sure, he was expert enough to understand this topic. To have well-known persons to sign letters is to get more attention for the issue.

Yes, I absolutely agree with the attention piece, here. Perhaps we can agree that that is the purpose of identifying Einstein's opinion in this matter, not to lend more creedance to it because of 'expertise'.

No problem, we discussed the topic before and only to come to the conclusion, that there are different schools of historians who say different things.

I thought that was you and I, Volker, but I wasn't sure (it really was late when I was typing, yesterday). Now I remember, our Efraim Karsh vs. Benny Morris discussion, where we agreed to disagree.

Israel ignored the UN General Assembly Resolution 3236, which calls for a right to return of the Palestinians, so why should they care for Resolution 194?

From UN Resolution 3236:
Reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return

The key word here is Reaffirms, which specifically refers to the section of UN Resolution 194 that I identified. The Palestinians have not complied with this section.
 
Re: Israelis permitted to have 3,000 year memory, Palestinians permitted 60 year memo

CaptainCourtesy said:
Yes, I absolutely agree with the attention piece, here. Perhaps we can agree that that is the purpose of identifying Einstein's opinion in this matter, not to lend more creedance to it because of 'expertise'.
Yes, this is how I see things, too.

CaptainCourtesy said:
I thought that was you and I, Volker, but I wasn't sure (it really was late when I was typing, yesterday). Now I remember, our Efraim Karsh vs. Benny Morris discussion, where we agreed to disagree.
Yes, this is what I mean ;)

CaptainCourtesy said:
The key word here is Reaffirms, which specifically refers to the section of UN Resolution 194 that I identified. The Palestinians have not complied with this section.
Ok, so if Resolution 3236 refers to Resolution 194, Article 11, than let's check this one.

11. Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible;
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/1c...c758572b78d1cd0085256bcf0077e51a!OpenDocument

It makes a difference of people, who left the country and want to come back and live in peace with their neighbors. They should be entitled to so according this Resolution.

Another group are people, who left and did not want to come back. Here the resolution talks about compensation.

Both groups exists. The first one is not allowed to return by Israel, the second one did not get compensations by Israel.

That's why the UN issued another resolution 26 years later.
Another 32 years later Israel still does not comply and shows no intention to do so in the future.

If you say, the Palestinians have not complied, there is not much to comply with so far for them connected to this article.
 
Admittedly, there were cases, where Palestinians married into families to get a passport to Israel only to blow them themselves up at a crowded place a few weeks later.

There is no compensation I have heard of for Jewish people from Arabian countries, too.
 
Re: Israelis permitted to have 3,000 year memory, Palestinians permitted 60 year memo

If I'd quoted anyone else that had signed the letter you'd say they were liberals or Jew Haters or anti semites or left wing bla bla bla.
Because instead I mentioned Einstien, you are unable to issue forth with the those usual mindless cliches becuase he was Jew and an expert in the field of zionism and the proposition of the state of Israel, so instead you say he made a few mathematical mistakes so that undermines the letter or that he was remote aloof and naive as an academic, or that he was a German Jew. Tashah is an ashkenazy Jew, so what. Or are we also to focus on and make a big issue out of which sub variants of the racial or religious type of branding someone is.
Talk about clutching at straws :roll:
It just goes to show how little real ammunition you have to justify the case that attacking Arabs villages and slaughtering civilians is inexcusable and a crime against humanity commited by zionists. In fact we all know that no decent human being could possibly justify such behaviour, unless they are the same type of animal as Himmler, Zarqawi or Menachim Begin.
That is the real issue here, not who signed the letter.
Your picking on Einstien is a diversionary tactic by focusing on a side issue, when the real issue is the contents of the letter. If I'd said in my first post that here's what 'Muhamed Zarqawi thought of rampant zionists' you'd have a legitimate beef about whose signature is on the letter.
The other issue is the Israelis like to hark back 3000 years as a basis to lay claim to land but expect the Arabs that were booted off their lands are supposed to forget about it after 60 years.
According to GY's post, he'll be happy to give his home/land back to the Indians.
You are as dissingenous as bigotted Muslims. In fact when I've gone to Muslim forums and expressed my disgust at the Muslim terrorists I've been hounded off the site. You people here appear to be just as dishonest about human rights violations commited by your side as they are about violations commited by their side.
Which goes to show the only fact you aren't all jumping up and down burning American flags and either justifying or denying Muslim attrocities, is purely down to an accident of birth. In other words, you must be in the same category of sheeplike non free thinking animals as they are.
 
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