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Israeli troops manhandle EU diplomats delivering aid to Palestinians [W:9]

TheDemSocialist

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video@: [/FONT][/COLOR]Israeli troops manhandle EU diplomats delivering aid to Palestinians - YouTube

Its time for Western countries including the US to say to Israel if you dont abide by international law and international standards we are going to cut your aid.

look here they are surrounded by enemies threating to blow them off the map on a daily they have rocket attacks and suicide bombers on a regular bases do you blame them to being maybe to aggressive and overly cautious
 
look here they are surrounded by enemies threating to blow them off the map on a daily basses they have rocket attacks and suicide bombers on a regular bases do you blame them to being maybe to aggressive and overly cautious

Yes EU diplomats bringing aid are their enemies... :roll:
Still even if they are " surrounded by enemies threating to blow them off the map on a daily basses" does that justify them violating international law, international norms, and also treaties they have signed on to?
 
Yes EU diplomats bringing aid are their enemies... :roll:
Still even if they are " surrounded by enemies threating to blow them off the map on a daily basses" does that justify them violating international law, international norms, and also treaties they have signed on to?

do you not think the half a dozen or so terrorist groups could disguises them selves as EU diplomats? weapons are constantly being smuggled into the west banks hidden in so called aid to be used to kill Israeli children
 
do you not think the half a dozen or so terrorist groups could disguises them selves as EU diplomats?
In EU marked vehicles with EU papers and EU criteria? No.

weapons are constantly being smuggled into the west banks hidden in so called aid to be used to kill Israeli children
And i know.

But you never answered my question: Still even if they are " surrounded by enemies threating to blow them off the map on a daily basses" does that justify them violating international law, international norms, and also treaties they have signed on to?
 
I support manhandling EU diplomats.
 
a. I don't see you posting about the 2 Israeli dead soldiers, that were killed in the past few days...I wonder why.
b. You present only one side of the story i.e we don't know what was the status of that area, we don't know why they were stopped, etc...
c. Judging from the presented video these soldiers, sergeants and officers haven't done anything unreasonable or something that I wouldn't do.

Fallen.
 
a. I don't see you posting about the 2 Israeli dead soldiers, that were killed in the past few days...I wonder why.
b. You present only one side of the story i.e we don't know what was the status of that area, we don't know why they were stopped, etc...
c. Judging from the presented video these soldiers, sergeants and officers haven't done anything unreasonable or something that I wouldn't do.

Fallen.

First we all know why this person did not post anything about the two soldiers killed. We will probably read a read shortly about the house that will now be used.

Regarding the EU "diplomat" a follow up story says that she may be thrown out of the country because the story may be a lie. She may have laid on the ground herself and actually have hit a soldier.
 
I don't see you posting about the 2 Israeli dead soldiers, that were killed in the past few days...I wonder why.

First we all know why this person did not post anything about the two soldiers killed. We will probably read a read shortly about the house that will now be used.

Moderator's Warning:
Cut out the baiting and trolling and stop derailing this thread. You don't get to decide what people do or don't post. That goes for everyone here, no matter what side of the fence you sit on in relation to the I/P situation. If you don't agree with what someone is posting then debate them on the topic and the topic only. Remember we are in the ME Forum and a stricter ruleset is in place. Please also feel free to start your own thread about the Israeli Soldiers who were killed rather than complaining that someone else has not.
 
video@: [/FONT][/COLOR]Israeli troops manhandle EU diplomats delivering aid to Palestinians - YouTube

Its time for Western countries including the US to say to Israel if you dont abide by international law and international standards we are going to cut your aid.

You know what would be really great? If instead of all the drama and fanfare that's often associated with situations like this, that those who apparently are so concerned with the welfare of those they are trying to assist, would actually do something constructive instead of acting like idiots.

Here. How it all started.

 
video@: [/FONT][/COLOR]Israeli troops manhandle EU diplomats delivering aid to Palestinians - YouTube

Its time for Western countries including the US to say to Israel if you dont abide by international law and international standards we are going to cut your aid.

What western countries other than the US give aid to the state of Israel? And why would the US cut their aid to Israel because some funny EU diplomats came here and said "hey let's attack Israeli soldiers all of a sudden and see what happens"? In fact the US wouldn't give a ****.

Another tip, stop using Russia Today, it's the no.1 anti-Western propaganda source out there and it really casts away any credibility you think you might have when you're opening such threads.
 
You know what would be really great? If instead of all the drama and fanfare that's often associated with situations like this, that those who apparently are so concerned with the welfare of those they are trying to assist, would actually do something constructive instead of acting like idiots.

Here. How it all started.



Thats not how this "all started." This video shows what happened after " The reporter also saw them yanking French diplomat Marion Fesneau-Castaing out of the truck carrying the supplies before driving it away. “They dragged me out of the truck and forced me to the ground with no regard for my diplomatic immunity..." After this "Video footage showed Ms Fesneau-Castaing later striking an Israeli border policeman on his chin." Israel accuses EU diplomats of

So in other words Israel stopped the van and said it was "illegal" they then yanked everyone out of the van drove it away, French lady got pissed and hit the Israeli soldier.. The EU diplomats were not the provocateurs, they were simply trying to deliver aid, to a town that was recently demolished.
 
What western countries other than the US give aid to the state of Israel?
Germany provides military aide. I beleive.

And why would the US cut their aid to Israel because some funny EU diplomats came here and said "hey let's attack Israeli soldiers all of a sudden and see what happens"? In fact the US wouldn't give a ****.
Thats not the only reason. Other reasons include not respecting international law, internatinoal norms, and various treaties Israel has signed, and their use of chemical weapons since now the US is all about chemcial weapon use.


Another tip, stop using Russia Today, it's the no.1 anti-Western propaganda source out there and it really casts away any credibility you think you might have when you're opening such threads.
Na ill keep using it.
 
Thats not how this "all started." This video shows what happened after " The reporter also saw them yanking French diplomat Marion Fesneau-Castaing out of the truck carrying the supplies before driving it away. “They dragged me out of the truck and forced me to the ground with no regard for my diplomatic immunity..." After this "Video footage showed Ms Fesneau-Castaing later striking an Israeli border policeman on his chin." Israel accuses EU diplomats of

So in other words Israel stopped the van and said it was "illegal" they then yanked everyone out of the van drove it away, French lady got pissed and hit the Israeli soldier.. The EU diplomats were not the provocateurs, they were simply trying to deliver aid, to a town that was recently demolished.

Not really, no. It all started with rock throwing from the French diplomat's side towards the Israeli border police. The truck was filled with tents and the diplomat's side are at fault with trying to make an illegal outpost in an area which was declared as a closed military zone. Israel is now considering filing a complaint against the French diplomat.

Germany provides military aide. I beleive.

You do seem to believe a lot of things, and it just so happens that all of them are wrong, including this.

TheDemSocialist said:
Thats not the only reason. Other reasons include not respecting international law, internatinoal norms, and various treaties Israel has signed, and their use of chemical weapons since now the US is all about chemcial weapon use.

Yeah well Israel never used chemical weapons nor does it "not respect international law".

TheDemSocialist said:
Na ill keep using it.

Shocking really.
 
Thats not how this "all started." This video shows what happened after " The reporter also saw them yanking French diplomat Marion Fesneau-Castaing out of the truck carrying the supplies before driving it away. “They dragged me out of the truck and forced me to the ground with no regard for my diplomatic immunity..." After this "Video footage showed Ms Fesneau-Castaing later striking an Israeli border policeman on his chin." Israel accuses EU diplomats of

So in other words Israel stopped the van and said it was "illegal" they then yanked everyone out of the van drove it away, French lady got pissed and hit the Israeli soldier.. The EU diplomats were not the provocateurs, they were simply trying to deliver aid, to a town that was recently demolished.

They are right you know DemSoc, stay away from RT. They exploit every gap they can and use those against us.

But this other Irish source should be more neutral. I understand that poor Israelis are stuck to fight wars against various Islamic fractions, that they are surrounded with foes (just like us in fact), and may engage in something like this under pressure (not to mention stress!).

But this is no reason to make a norm to stay out of international norms.
 
video@: [/FONT][/COLOR]Israeli troops manhandle EU diplomats delivering aid to Palestinians - YouTube

Its time for Western countries including the US to say to Israel if you dont abide by international law and international standards we are going to cut your aid.

Extremely embarrassing behavior. Regardless of the justification I cannot fathom how this behavior was tolerated. I swear sometimes the blinders there seem extraordinarily thick. Though just to clarify I believe only the United States provides military assistance there is no other form of aid that is disbursed by the US or others.
 
Germany provides military aide. I beleive.


Thats not the only reason. Other reasons include not respecting international law, internatinoal norms, and various treaties Israel has signed, and their use of chemical weapons since now the US is all about chemcial weapon use.



Na ill keep using it.

You really shouldn't use RT as a transparent news source. It's useful for gaining a window onto the narratives that emanate from Moscow but it is a joke as an independent journalistic outlet.
 
Not really, no. It all started with rock throwing from the French diplomat's side towards the Israeli border police. The truck was filled with tents and the diplomat's side are at fault with trying to make an illegal outpost in an area which was declared as a closed military zone. Israel is now considering filing a complaint against the French diplomat.
A rock? I was told just in an earlier post that it started by a french diplomat slapping a soldier.


You do seem to believe a lot of things, and it just so happens that all of them are wrong, including this.
Israel Seeks German Arms-Aid Deal | Defense News | defensenews.com
Germany Sells Israel More Dolphin Subs
German aid to Israel's war machine is an invitation to abuse human rights | The Electronic Intifada

Yeah well Israel never used chemical weapons
Yes they have
" Israel was widely criticized after its use of white phosphorus in Operation Cast Lead in 2009 caused the civilian deaths.... In 2009, Human Rights Watch claimed that Israel’s use of white phosphorus shells over densely populated areas of Gaza during Operation Cast Lead was evidence of war crimes."
Israel Claims Syria Used Chemical Weapons, But Israel Has Used White Phosphorus

"Israel’s recent use of white phosphorus bombs in densely populated areas of Gaza violated the rules of war, according to report issued by a leading human rights organization last week. The 71-pages-long Human Rights Watch (HRW) report, entitled “Rain of Fire: Israel’s Unlawful Use of White Phosphorous in Gaza,” states that even before the group’s researchers were able to enter Gaza, they had watched from adjacent perimeter areas in Israel as white phosphorus bombs exploded in the air over densely-packed residential areas in the Gaza Strip."
Report excoriates Israel's use of white phosphorous in Gaza | The Electronic Intifada

nor does it "not respect international law".
I wonder what settlements are then?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/01/w...aeli-settlement-policy-violates-law.html?_r=0
"Presenting their findings in Geneva after a nearly six-month inquiry for the United Nations Human Rights Council, a panel of three judges, led by Christine Chanet of France, presented its view that Israel’s settlements violated the Geneva Conventions, which prohibit a state from transferring its own civilian population into territory it has occupied."

Or the UN Charter of holding people without trial and indefinitely which not only violate the UN Charter but the Geneva Convention
Israel: Stop Jailing People Without Charge or Trial | Human Rights Watch
"Israel’s practice of jailing West Bank Palestinians inside Israel violates the Geneva Conventions, which prohibit an occupying power from detaining members of the occupied population outside the occupied territory. "

Or the act of "collective punishment", and not allowing the right to return to the local population after war.



Shocking really.
Im not here to appease your feelings of what a "qualified source" is.
 
A rock? I was told just in an earlier post that it started by a french diplomat slapping a soldier.

And even before she did the Palestinian and European 'activists' have been hurling rocks at the Israeli border police as they have been doing on a daily basis for decades now.


Hah, the Electronic Intifada, are you going to cite Hamas' website too at some point because that will be hilarious. You must.
And no, there is no German military aid to Israel, Germany has been selling stuff to Israel just as it does to many other countries, it does not however send military aid as you have claimed above.
Face it you lied, and we both know that wasn't a firsty there eh?

Yes they have
" Israel was widely criticized after its use of white phosphorus in Operation Cast Lead in 2009 caused the civilian deaths.... In 2009, Human Rights Watch claimed that Israel’s use of white phosphorus shells over densely populated areas of Gaza during Operation Cast Lead was evidence of war crimes."
Israel Claims Syria Used Chemical Weapons, But Israel Has Used White Phosphorus

White Phosphorous is, as I have already stated in an earlier thread and must repeat now, not a chemical weapon and is not recognized as an unconventional weapon by the international community. It is being used routinely by all advanced armies in the world, including that of the US. Next.

I wonder what settlements are then?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/01/w...aeli-settlement-policy-violates-law.html?_r=0
"Presenting their findings in Geneva after a nearly six-month inquiry for the United Nations Human Rights Council, a panel of three judges, led by Christine Chanet of France, presented its view that Israel’s settlements violated the Geneva Conventions, which prohibit a state from transferring its own civilian population into territory it has occupied."

Or the UN Charter of holding people without trial and indefinitely which not only violate the UN Charter but the Geneva Convention
Israel: Stop Jailing People Without Charge or Trial | Human Rights Watch
"Israel’s practice of jailing West Bank Palestinians inside Israel violates the Geneva Conventions, which prohibit an occupying power from detaining members of the occupied population outside the occupied territory. "

Or the act of "collective punishment", and not allowing the right to return to the local population after war.

Not to derail this thread from its topic, but Israel has ceased creating new settlements ages ago. It builds within existing settlements and constructs new buildings in East Jerusalem, an area Israel has annexed during the '67 war and not occupied. Also, no collective punishment and there is no violation of international laws regarding the Palestinians so called right of return.

Im not here to appease your feelings of what a "qualified source" is.

And yet here I am, again, utterly shocked.
 
And even before she did the Palestinian and European 'activists' have been hurling rocks at the Israeli border police as they have been doing on a daily basis for decades now.
They were throwing rocks from their truck?
Are we moving the situations around now?


Hah, the Electronic Intifada, are you going to cite Hamas' website too at some point because that will be hilarious. You must.
Way to pick out on source amongst the various others that back it up.. But yea whatever.

And no, there is no German military aid to Israel, Germany has been selling stuff to Israel just as it does to many other countries, it does not however send military aid as you have claimed above.
Lets see here what do you call something that is "fully funded" by another country? Isnt that aid???
"Both submarines contracted under the 2005 deal are still under construction in Germany, with first deliveries planned for 2012. They will join Israel's three-Dolphin fleet, operational since 2001; two of the Dolphins were fully funded by Germany, and costs for the third were shared evenly by the two countries."http://www.defensenews.com/article/20100118/DEFFEAT04/1180309/Israel-Seeks-German-Arms-Aid-Deal


Face it you lied, and we both know that wasn't a firsty there eh?
Nope no i didnt see above.



White Phosphorous is, as I have already stated in an earlier thread and must repeat now, not a chemical weapon and is not recognized as an unconventional weapon by the international community. It is being used routinely by all advanced armies in the world, including that of the US. Next.
" Article 1 of Protocol III of the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons defines an incendiary weapon as 'any weapon or munition which is primarily designed to set fire to objects or to cause burn injury to persons through the action of flame, heat, or combination thereof, produced by a chemical reaction of a substance delivered on the target'. The same protocol prohibits the use of said incendiary weapons against civilians (already forbidden by the Geneva Conventions) or in civilian areas. The convention also defines weapons which are not to be considered to be incendiary weapons. Examples are: (i) Munitions which may have incidental incendiary effects, such as illuminants, tracers, smoke or signalling systems; (ii) Munitions designed to combine penetration, blast or fragmentation effects with an additional incendiary effect."
White phosphorus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

when used on civilians is violation of the geneva convention.



Not to derail this thread from its topic, but Israel has ceased creating new settlements ages ago. It builds within existing settlements and constructs new buildings in East Jerusalem, an area Israel has annexed during the '67 war and not occupied.
Settlements beign built in general on a occupied population infact by law is a violation of international law
And also dont mind that the legalized three in April of 2012 which were even illegal by Israeli standards?
Israel Legalizes 'Outpost' Settlements - The Daily Beast
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/25/w...s-3-west-bank-settlements.html?pagewanted=all

And also continue to expand many..

Also, no collective punishment
What to you call buldozing homes, bombing civilian populations, checkpoints, a separation wall, a blockade, denying aid, and diverting wells and water supply?

and there is no violation of international laws regarding the Palestinians so called right of return.

Lets see here under the UDHR all persons have the right to return to their nation of origin. The Palestinians were forced to leave in the 1948 War and the 1967 War and flee to neighboring countries and refugee camps and now they are being denied the right to reenter back to their land and property.


And yet here I am, again, utterly shocked.
I could care less.
 
They were throwing rocks from their truck?
Are we moving the situations around now?

Pfft, as if we are to assume that there was only the truck there.

Way to pick out on source amongst the various others that back it up.. But yea whatever.


Lets see here what do you call something that is "fully funded" by another country? Isnt that aid???
"Both submarines contracted under the 2005 deal are still under construction in Germany, with first deliveries planned for 2012. They will join Israel's three-Dolphin fleet, operational since 2001; two of the Dolphins were fully funded by Germany, and costs for the third were shared evenly by the two countries."http://www.defensenews.com/article/20100118/DEFFEAT04/1180309/Israel-Seeks-German-Arms-Aid-Deal



Nope no i didnt see above.

Yeah that's called a sale not aid mate. Nor does it show that Germany is sending military aid to Israel, certainly at present time which is what you have implied when you said "they should cut their aid to Israel".

" Article 1 of Protocol III of the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons defines an incendiary weapon as 'any weapon or munition which is primarily designed to set fire to objects or to cause burn injury to persons through the action of flame, heat, or combination thereof, produced by a chemical reaction of a substance delivered on the target'. The same protocol prohibits the use of said incendiary weapons against civilians (already forbidden by the Geneva Conventions) or in civilian areas. The convention also defines weapons which are not to be considered to be incendiary weapons. Examples are: (i) Munitions which may have incidental incendiary effects, such as illuminants, tracers, smoke or signalling systems; (ii) Munitions designed to combine penetration, blast or fragmentation effects with an additional incendiary effect."
White phosphorus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

when used on civilians is violation of the geneva convention.

And in nowhere in that passage is it stated that it is defined as either a chemical weapon or an unconventional one.
Also, clearly Israel was never targeting civilians using it, it used it for its smokescreen purposes.

Settlements beign built in general on a occupied population infact by law is a violation of international law
And also dont mind that the legalized three in April of 2012 which were even illegal by Israeli standards?
Israel Legalizes 'Outpost' Settlements - The Daily Beast
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/25/w...s-3-west-bank-settlements.html?pagewanted=all

And also continue to expand many..


What to you call buldozing homes, bombing civilian populations, checkpoints, a separation wall, a blockade, denying aid, and diverting wells and water supply?



Lets see here under the UDHR all persons have the right to return to their nation of origin. The Palestinians were forced to leave in the 1948 War and the 1967 War and flee to neighboring countries and refugee camps and now they are being denied the right to reenter back to their land and property.

And there you are, derailing your own thread from one topic to another.
No, the refugees of the '48 war have no "right of return" and there is hence no violation in ignoring such "right".
There is no collective punishment, certainly not "bombing civilians", and the denial of aid at the time was aimed against Hamas and as such cannot be perceived as a "collective punishment" against Gaza's civilians. Likewise, the separation wall is aimed at preventing infiltration of insurgents from the WB and doesn't come to punish any civilian.
Settlements that were considered illegal by Israeli law were dismantled after a ruling from the Israeli supreme court.

I could care less.

How extraordinarily shocking that is.
 
Pfft, as if we are to assume that there was only the truck there.
Wait so there was a group of rock angry EU diplomats throwing rocks out of there trucks? I mean i would ask for proof but i know your just pulling things out of your ass...


Yeah that's called a sale not aid mate. Nor does it show that Germany is sending military aid to Israel, certainly at present time which is what you have implied when you said "they should cut their aid to Israel".
So wait when Germany fully funds something and gives it to Israel after they fully funded it that is a purchase? Tell me how much money did Israel have to pay for this fully funded deal? I mean it is fully funded by Germany....



And in nowhere in that passage is it stated that it is defined as either a chemical weapon or an unconventional one.
Also, clearly Israel was never targeting civilians using it, it used it for its smokescreen purposes.
On civilians which caused death and injury. Illegal udner the Geneva Convention.


And there you are, derailing your own thread from one topic to another.
Uhh no im not. You claimed they didnt violate international law so i am providing examples to prove that they do.
No, the refugees of the '48 war have no "right of return" and there is hence no violation in ignoring such "right".
And how do they have no right of return?

There is no collective punishment, certainly not "bombing civilians",
You have to be blind to say Israel doesnt bomb civilians. Raining down on Gaza multiple times....

and the denial of aid at the time was aimed against Hamas and as such cannot be perceived as a "collective punishment" against Gaza's civilians.
So when aid and a blockaide is on Gaza which the aid is meant to get to civilians is denied to the gazan population based on Hamas' actions what is that called?

Likewise, the separation wall is aimed at preventing infiltration of insurgents from the WB and doesn't come to punish any civilian.
Except that it does...

Settlements that were considered illegal by Israeli law were dismantled after a ruling from the Israeli supreme court.
Except at the link provided proves that they continue these practices that are illegal by Isaeli law.




How extraordinarily shocking that is.
I know!!!!
 
Wait so there was a group of rock angry EU diplomats throwing rocks out of there trucks? I mean i would ask for proof but i know your just pulling things out of your ass...

Not really, no.


Haaretz said:
The diplomats said the Israel Defense Forces manhandled them and stopped them from bringing aid and supplies to Palestinians whose homes in the hamlet of Khirbet Makhoul were demolished on Monday. Meanwhile, the IDF said the attempt to erect the tents was a "provocation," and that Palestinians attacked the soldiers at the scene.

The army said dozens of Palestinians, foreign activists and diplomats gathered near the settlement of Hemdat and the base of the IDF’s Kfir Brigade in the northern Jordan Valley on Friday afternoon, and tried to set up tents at the site where the homes were razed.

Some of those present started throwing stones toward the security forces and hitting soldiers, the IDF said, adding that it used stun grenades to disperse the crowd. Three Palestinians were detained for attacking the security forces and transferred to police, the IDF said. The area was declared a closed military zone, and the army stopped a truck bringing supplies to the site, the IDF said.

European diplomats: Israeli army manhandled us, seized Palestinian aid - Diplomacy and Defense Israel News | Haaretz

So wait when Germany fully funds something and gives it to Israel after they fully funded it that is a purchase? Tell me how much money did Israel have to pay for this fully funded deal? I mean it is fully funded by Germany....

When Israel buys from Germany three submarines for the price of one it's called a sale. When Germany would send Israel military aid you could complain about "Western countries sending aid to Israel" and how awful and evil that is. As long as the US is the only one that does that, you can't use the plural form of country. Hopefully that would be understandable enough.

On civilians which caused death and injury. Illegal udner the Geneva Convention.

No, not on civilians.
And yet you seem to have forgotten that you've just made the claim WP is an unconventional weapon and still didn't bring any proof to back it up.

Uhh no im not. You claimed they didnt violate international law so i am providing examples to prove that they do.

Uhh yes you are.
 
That leaves out what happened before the encounter. The Israelis stopping the vehicles and yanking the French diplomat out of the care.


When Israel buys from Germany three submarines for the price of one it's called a sale.
The article clearly stats that Germany paid for all of them and gave them to Israel. How you cannot read that is beyond me.

No, not on civilians.
Gaza one of the most populated and small areas on earth does not contain civilians?
OR like we said earlier white phosphorus on civilians.

And yet you seem to have forgotten that you've just made the claim WP is an unconventional weapon and still didn't bring any proof to back it up.
I called it a chemical weapon which it is.



Uhh yes you are.
Providing examples about a point you brought up is derailing the thread?
 
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