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Israeli army: Gaza war troops to be disciplined

donsutherland1

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Today, The Washington Post provided an article that revealed that Israel will be disciplining a number of soldiers involved with the Operation Cast Lead effort. The details highlight the reality that Israel has a robust system for assessing the conduct of its troops and that it takes seriously its obligations under the Laws of War.

The Israeli military announced Tuesday that its top lawyer had indicted a staff sergeant on manslaughter charges and a lieutenant colonel for deviating from authorized protocol during Israel's 2009 military operation in the Gaza Strip.

A third soldier, a captain, was disciplined for not having exercised appropriate judgment during the military operation, which came in response to sustained cross-border rocket attacks by Palestinian militants.
washingtonpost.com
 

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Today, The Washington Post provided an article that revealed that Israel will be disciplining a number of soldiers involved with the Operation Cast Lead effort. The details highlight the reality that Israel has a robust system for assessing the conduct of its troops and that it takes seriously its obligations under the Laws of War.

washingtonpost.com

Yeah, and all that will happen is that they will be reprimanded with no further consequences for their horrid actions. Then it will be back to business as usual.
 

mpg

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Yeah, and all that will happen is that they will be reprimanded with no further consequences for their horrid actions. Then it will be back to business as usual.
for manslaughter? we'll see
 

alexa

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3 people for the Gaza war is nothing. That is the sort of thing you could expect in any war or even more. While the war was going on and after I heard of a lot more, so not impressed.
 

donsutherland1

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3 people for the Gaza war is nothing. That is the sort of thing you could expect in any war or even more. While the war was going on and after I heard of a lot more, so not impressed.
Alexa,

The investigation extends beyond three persons. The article adds:

Israel's military advocate general also announced that it has launched a criminal investigation into the circumstances surrounding Israeli aerial strikes that -- according to a United Nations report on the Gaza operation -- killed 23 members of one family.

Additional persons of an unstated number are subject to investigation with respect to that incident.
 

Hoplite

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I'll believe it when I see it. My faith in Israel at the moment is at an all-time low. Cast Lead was basically Israel getting revenge on Gaza.
 

RyrineaHaruno

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I am with Hoplite on this I will beleive it when I see the results of these so called trails of war crimes.
 

Gardener

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My faith in Israel at the moment is at an all-time low.
and considering you haven't yet made a statement here even remotely fair to the Jewish state, that's saying a lot.
 

Hoplite

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and considering you haven't yet made a statement here even remotely fair to the Jewish state, that's saying a lot.
They broke international law, consistently flout their power in the region, dont honor agreements they sign, I calls it like I sees it.
 

ido_

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They broke international law, consistently flout their power in the region, dont honor agreements they sign, I calls it like I sees it.
Perhaps, but so did the Arabs in the region and you seem to have faith in them.
 

Hoplite

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Perhaps, but so did the Arabs in the region and you seem to have faith in them.
Unless I've been sleep posting, I havent commented on the Arabs in the region.
 

Hoplite

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Just curious. Why would that be?
Because, frankly, I dont need to. There is no requirement that I automatically counter-balance ever criticism or praise I make of anything or anyone.

If you're going to automatically assume that because I criticize Israel I support Hamas, that's your own shortcoming. Dont make your intellectual inflexibility my problem.
 

CaptainCourtesy

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Because, frankly, I dont need to. There is no requirement that I automatically counter-balance ever criticism or praise I make of anything or anyone.

If you're going to automatically assume that because I criticize Israel I support Hamas, that's your own shortcoming. Dont make your intellectual inflexibility my problem.
Firstly, drop the attitude. Your defensiveness is YOUR problem. Don't try to shove it off on me. Secondly, you made a statement, so I asked a question. If you do not want to answer, just say so. No need to project your own issues, out. Lastly, my only issue with anyone only criticizing one side is the potential for their own shortsightedness in acknowledging that both sides have contributed to the problem. Now, you can either respond or not to what I have said, here, but keep your attitude to yourself.
 

donsutherland1

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Cast Lead was basically Israel getting revenge on Gaza.
Please provide a link to the Israeli government's having stated that Cast Lead was intended to retaliate for Gaza's rocket attacks rather than bring an end to them. The former notion would be an example of revenge. The latter would be self-defense. A statement by the Prime Minister or Defense Minister or Knesset resolution would suffice.
 
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Hoplite

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Firstly, drop the attitude. Your defensiveness is YOUR problem. Don't try to shove it off on me. Secondly, you made a statement, so I asked a question. If you do not want to answer, just say so. No need to project your own issues, out. Lastly, my only issue with anyone only criticizing one side is the potential for their own shortsightedness in acknowledging that both sides have contributed to the problem. Now, you can either respond or not to what I have said, here, but keep your attitude to yourself.
I apologize, I'm used to have to being defensive around here and it's rare that someone approaches me with a genuine inquiry.

But what I said previously still stands, simply because I criticize one side doesn't necessarily mean I support or dont criticize the other side or acknowledge that a particular problem has multiple causes or contributors. I dont feel it necessary to counter-balance every opinion I give with equal criticism of other factors or contributors to a problem.

Please provide a link to the Israeli government's having stated that Cast Lead was intended to retaliate for Gaza's rocket attacks rather than bring an end to them. The former notion would be an example of revenge. The latter would be self-defense. A statement by the Prime Minister or Defense Minister or Knesset resolution would suffice.
This is a pure value judgement from me, my evidence is circumstantial.

Israel seemed to have no care or desire to avoid collateral damage during the war, they fired on UN targets several times, civilian casualties were extremely high, they used weapons in settings that were restricted, they half-assed at best any information released and expected us to believe the most ridiculous stories.

On top of that, any fool studying history would have told them that Cast Lead was a terrible idea. Boots on the ground almost never stop an insurgency and a wide-scale military invasion doesn't fare much better. Simply throwing one's military power at a region where an insurgency is occurring is not an intelligent way to deal with the problem, as Israel should have known. We learned it in Vietnam and we should be re-learning it in Iraq and Afghanistan currently.

The United Nations sent a factfinding team to Israel to investigate and concluded that the IDF was indeed responsible for acts that constitute war crimes including firing on known civilian targets, UN relief vehicles and buildings, use of white phosphorous in populated areas (which is illegal), and use of human shields and torture.
United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In my opinion, this was Israel cracking down on Gaza for the sake of revenge, not to solve an actual problem. I dont think Israel specifically told the IDF to go after civilians, but I do think the IDF didnt particularly care or make it clear to it's soldiers that civilians were to be avoided.

Cast Lead did NOTHING to solve the problem. It hasnt stopped Hamas nor has it stopped the attacks
 

Apocalypse

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This is a pure value judgement from me, my evidence is circumstantial.

Israel seemed to have no care or desire to avoid collateral damage during the war, they fired on UN targets several times, civilian casualties were extremely high, they used weapons in settings that were restricted, they half-assed at best any information released and expected us to believe the most ridiculous stories.

On top of that, any fool studying history would have told them that Cast Lead was a terrible idea. Boots on the ground almost never stop an insurgency and a wide-scale military invasion doesn't fare much better. Simply throwing one's military power at a region where an insurgency is occurring is not an intelligent way to deal with the problem, as Israel should have known. We learned it in Vietnam and we should be re-learning it in Iraq and Afghanistan currently.

The United Nations sent a factfinding team to Israel to investigate and concluded that the IDF was indeed responsible for acts that constitute war crimes including firing on known civilian targets, UN relief vehicles and buildings, use of white phosphorous in populated areas (which is illegal), and use of human shields and torture.
United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In my opinion, this was Israel cracking down on Gaza for the sake of revenge, not to solve an actual problem. I dont think Israel specifically told the IDF to go after civilians, but I do think the IDF didnt particularly care or make it clear to it's soldiers that civilians were to be avoided.

Cast Lead did NOTHING to solve the problem. It hasnt stopped Hamas nor has it stopped the attacks
1) Israel has done a lot to minimize the civilian casualties. It has dropped leaflets warning of incoming attacks and attacked areas, it has announced a humanitarian time zone (3 hours per day) during which no attacks will be carried out (unless there is a direct threat) and during which the Strip was supplied with humanitarian aid. Furthermore and unbelievably so, Israel has gone as far as phoning people's homes and telling them of incoming attacks, or asking them not to move from their locations.
That pretty much kills the opinion that Israel didn't care about civilian casualties, and by the way, for what its worth, the IDF places the civilian casualties at 295, unlike the UN which places it at ~950, so if you wish to go with the UN figures go with them, but take notice that they lack the means to tell whehter the civilian-clothed individual lying dead on the floor is a member of a terrorist organization or a regular civilian.

2) As to the Goldstone report, it came from the United Nations Human Rights Council, a body inside the UN with clear and absolute bias towards the Israeli state. It has made more resolutions against the Israeli state than it has made against any other state in the world.
Besides that the comittee has also declared its opinion before the investigation has even begun, stating that Israel has committed war-crimes.
The comittee was recognized as biased by Israel, the US and others, and the majority of the Western world did not support it in the vote in the UN.

3) Finally, as to Cast Lead's results, I agree with your statement that any fool who'd study history will tell Israel that the operation was a terrible idea. Because he's a fool.
The decrease in rockets was huge. The operation was initiated in December 2008, and has ended around mid January 2009.
The amount of rockets launched at Israeli civilians during 2008 is put at ~3200. In 2009 it's 708, and in 2010, so far, only 160.
This above all proves that Cast Lead was efficient and necessary, even if the silence and partial-security for the citizens of Southern Israel is only temporary.
 

kaya'08

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and considering you haven't yet made a statement here even remotely fair to the Jewish state, that's saying a lot.
And you refuse to criticise it. You are really in no position to judge.
 

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Yeah, and all that will happen is that they will be reprimanded with no further consequences for their horrid actions. Then it will be back to business as usual.
Peace needs building blocks of mutual respect. One element of displaying respect, is to discipline Soldiers/Militia/Police who use excess on whatever side of the conflict.
The Indictment of Israeli soldiers for excesses in Cast Lead is a step toward establishing the basis of respect necessary for Peace.
The Israeli public is not calling for justice against Israeli’s for excesses, because the Israeli public is well aware of the excesses by the Palestinians of shooting rockets and mortars, etc.
It is for the Israeli leaders to show leadership beyond the Public Opinion polls, and elections, to form the basis of Trust and Respect for Peace. A Basis that many Israeli leaders could emphasize more is disciplining Israeli excesses

Israel Video & Transcript: Netanyahu on CNN’s Larry King | Enduring America

It is difficult for the Palestinians to come to a peace table and ask for small instances of justice. The small instances should precede peace talks, so there is a history of Israel and Palestinians addressing small issues that can build trust and respect. President Carter’s book probably has a number of small instances by which Israel could take the lead in small instances of opportunities of increased justice to begin a start.
 

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And you refuse to criticise it. You are really in no position to judge.
You are not telling the truth.

I have said more than once that I do not support the expansion of settlements, for instance.

My rejecting all the over-the-top propaganda of those who simply repackage all the Muslim Brotherhood type rhetoric on the subject in order to indulge in 24/7 demonization does not mean I have no reservations as to how Israel conducts its affairs.
 

kaya'08

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You are not telling the truth.

I have said more than once that I do not support the expansion of settlements, for instance.

My rejecting all the over-the-top propaganda of those who simply repackage all the Muslim Brotherhood type rhetoric on the subject in order to indulge in 24/7 demonization does not mean I have no reservations as to how Israel conducts its affairs.
Well im glad you said that, but when i see you conducting more realistic politics in regards to impartiality on this topic and looking at both sides of the argument, all the while abandoning your "over-the-top propaganda" against any side other than Israel, then i will believe you.
 

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3 people for the Gaza war is nothing. That is the sort of thing you could expect in any war or even more. While the war was going on and after I heard of a lot more, so not impressed.

If Israel was interested in peace, Israel would set up an agency or mechanism to redress grievances from Israeli government employees against Palestinians. Similar to the US Civil Rights Act that gave attorney fees to winning litigants, and the Civil Rights branch of the Justice Department that carried out suits to correct injustices.

Even just a Fairness Complaint department with the authority to suspend Israeli government employees for up to three days, for instances of unfair or uncivil treatment of Palestinians, would give Palestinians a feeling of increased respect. More intervention is needed against Israeli government workers who treat Palestinians unfairly. But Large punishments are not necessary, just more frequent justice, of some kind. Interruption is a key factor in behavior change. Many long prison sentences are imposed, throughout the world, that achieve their intended purpose within the first two weeks, or less.

Does Israel desire peace? Where is the work for redress of viable grievances?

Cutting through the confusion about Israel/Palestine > Palestine > Redress Information & Analysis


"Amnesty International's latest annual report indicates, too, that torture of Palestinian detainees by Israel's General Security Service is rife. Practices allegedly used include beatings, placing detainees in "stress" positions designed to cause them pain and discomfort, and forced sleep deprivation. Despite the 1999 court ruling, Israel still allows torture in cases where it is deemed "necessary," Amnesty noted."


http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article11366.shtml


" report by the Israeli human rights organisation Yesh Din said that 90 percent of Palestinian complaints filed to police against Israelis have been closed without charges being filed. Israel has denied the accuracy of the report.

According to the report, Palestinians were also prevented from filing complaints against Israeli settlers for various reasons, including the absence of police in localities where they should be or their refusal to accept the complaints. In some cases, according to Yesh Din, Israel’s civil administration applied pressure on citizens to deter them from filing complaints. "


http://www.irinnews.org/report.aspx?reportid=61854


"but Israeli media said the incident occurred when the officers arrested the man for motorcycle theft in late December.

According to the Israeli daily newspaper Haaretz, the victim testified an officer sodomized him with a gun barrel. He said one officer urinated on him while others placed bananas and cream on his head. He also said the officers also hurled cigarette butts and ashes at him and the officers all punched and kicked him, Haaretz reported.

The officers are from the Tel Aviv area, Haaretz said"



http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/01/10/israel.police.investigation/index.html


..
 
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Gladiator

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There are many instances of small insults to Palestinians, at the hands of Israeli Government Officers, but hter is no mechanism for dealing with small instandces of disrespect.

"Most cases involve a "small dose" of ill-treatment such as a slap, a kick, an insult, a pointless delay at checkpoints, or degrading treatment. These acts have become an integral part of Palestinian life in the Occupied Territories. From time to time, however, cases of severe brutality occur. "

B'Tselem - Beating and Abuse of Palestinians by the Israeli Security Forces


Israel has little interest in giving Palestinians fair play, and are not interested in setting up an agency to handle small Palestinian complaints

Becasue there is no basis for respect for the Palestinians to begin peace talks.




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