Israel (1 Viewer)

[davideyoung]

Depite a petition, Israel vows to continue killings

Xinhua - English

Where do you stand on this issue?

 

[Tashah]

Depite a petition, Israel vows to continue killings

Xinhua - English

Where do you stand on this issue?

I have no moral or ethical qualms about killing high-value enemy targets in a war environment with open hostilities.

When the misdeeds of a particular Palestinian militant surpass a certain threshhold, their dossier is placed on a list of high-value targets. Israeli intelligence services place a high premium on harvesting as much information as possible on these HVTs. The list is reviewed periodically, with some dossiers being added while others are removed. Terrorist and criminal activity is well documented and supplanted with both analog and digital audio/video files. When intelligence discovers a convergence of circumstances, a request is filed to initiate a counterterrorist operation. The HVT now becomes a CTT (Critical Time Target). A 'black-operation' request must pass up a chain of officials until it reaches the desk of the PM.

It should be noted that Palestinian factions also target Israeli HVTs, reaching all the way to Israeli Knesset and Cabinet members.

To my knowledge, it is perfectly legal under international law to target enemy military commanders/members and government officials. That said, I would hope that these counter-terrorism black-operations will be suspended as long as the Olmert/Abbas ceasefire endures.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Depite a petition, Israel vows to continue killings

Xinhua - English

Where do you stand on this issue?

No problem whatsoever. They are targeting militants, the same people that essentially are firiing or have fired rockets at them. If these people are enemies of the state or danger to isreal they need to be handled.

 

[WI Crippler]

Its good I think.

Let the people who are actually fighting figure out who their enemy is. And then allow them to take their enemy out.

 

[Vader]

Its good I think.

Let the people who are actually fighting figure out who their enemy is. And then allow them to take their enemy out.

I agree. Militants are fair game. Frankly, I am surprised that the Mossad hasn't arranged for the Palestinian PM to die an unexplained death.

 

[Volker]

This decision is based on the idea that there is an international armed conflict there, similar to a war situation. They argue that in international conflicts this targeting people of the opposite side is backed by international law.

This is not the situation we have there. To me it looks like they used this construction to find an excuse for a tactic which is not backed by international law.

 

[BudLizard101]

I agree. Militants are fair game. Frankly, I am surprised that the Mossad hasn't arranged for the Palestinian PM to die an unexplained death.

The palestinians are doing a good job of that themselves... they almost got him yesterday(or was it befroe yesterday?). Ahh well, the quicker, the better.

 

[Tashah]

This decision is based on the idea that there is an international armed conflict there, similar to a war situation. They argue that in international conflicts this targeting people of the opposite side is backed by international law.

The Geneva Conventions say nothing of 'international conflicts'. They address legal and illegal military actions when a 'state of war' exists between combatant nations.

This is not the situation we have there. To me it looks like they used this construction to find an excuse for a tactic which is not backed by international law.

This is exactly the situation we have. War. Rockets, artillery, tanks, mortars, assault rifles, RPGs, IEDs, combatants, deaths, casualties. If this isn't war Volker, what is?

Targeting the enemy in war is indeed legal. This includes government officials, military commanders, and enemy combatants.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

We must let loose the pit-bull that is Israel and allow them to tear out the throat of radical Islam!!! For to long have we and them showed restraint towards an enemy which declares daily that their goal is the very destruction of our nations and above all else they seek the conclusion of the final solution!

Well in the words of FDR:

"we do not accept and we will never permit this Nazi shape of things to come,"

And in the words of JFK:

"We dare not forget today that we are the heirs of that first revolution. Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans—born in this century, tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace, proud of our ancient heritage—and unwilling to witness or permit the slow undoing of those human rights to which this Nation has always been committed, and to which we are committed today at home and around the world."[SIZE=-2]3[/SIZE] Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.[SIZE=-2]4[/SIZE] This much we pledge—and more.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Israel also has to balance its best interests and perhaps its very existence against the UN "judges" of international law most of whom are decidedly anti-Israel and pro-Palestine. How many of us would be inclined to follow a 'law' that ensured that many of our people would be terrorized, injured, maimed, killed? And how many of our own people do we allow to be terrorized, injured, maimed, killed before we decide the most ethical course of action is to take out those who terrorize, injure, maim, and kill us by whatever means is necessary to do that?

 

[cherokee]

As long as the hamas, hezbolla, or any other dumba$$ Arab/Muslim group who believe suicide bombings are OK I support any and all targeting of these people.

When these rejects want peace and grow the hell up they will get it, until then the hell with them……..and any who support them.....:2wave:

 

[Volker]

The Geneva Conventions say nothing of 'international conflicts'. They address legal and illegal military actions when a 'state of war' exists between combatant nations.

The Geneva Conventions may not say so, but the reason of this court decision does.

This is exactly the situation we have. War. Rockets, artillery, tanks, mortars, assault rifles, RPGs, IEDs, combatants, deaths, casualties. If this isn't war Volker, what is?

In Iraq there is a war, In Palestine there is not.

Targeting the enemy in war is indeed legal. This includes government officials, military commanders, and enemy combatants.

I think, you see this different when it came to Rehawam Ze’ewi.

 

[AlbqOwl]

I think if you were an Israeli parent afraid to go to the market for fear of being blown to bits, afraid to go to work because some Palestinian militia group is shelling the road, or afraid to allow your kids to play outside the bomb shelter because rockets are being fired randomly into your neighborhood, you would say it was war.

 

[Volker]

I think if you were an Israeli parent afraid to go to the market for fear of being blown to bits, afraid to go to work because some Palestinian militia group is shelling the road, or afraid to allow your kids to play outside the bomb shelter because rockets are being fired randomly into your neighborhood, you would say it was war.

Maybe this was so in Sderot or in the North during the Lebanon war.
This does not sound like daily life there.

 

[BudLizard101]

Maybe this was so in Sderot or in the North during the Lebanon war.
This does not sound like daily life there.

What do you know about Israeli life? Stop pretending like you are an expert in everyfield of the ME. ALL you know is that your anti-Israeli sites tell you. It's getting boring. Had I wanted to know what a antisemite wanted to say, I would go one of the many terrorist owned sites(english.aljazeera.net/HomePage , ÇáãÑßÒ ÇáÝáÓØíäí ááÅÚáÇã , and many many more). Not to mention that all they preach is hate and lies... kinda of like you.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Maybe this was so in Sderot or in the North during the Lebanon war.
This does not sound like daily life there.

It is pretty much part of daily life for those Israelis who live in northern Israel. On most days one or more rockets are fired into Israel from Gaza or southern Lebanon. But the liberal anti-Israel media doesn't really keep us informed of that do they.

From today's gleaning of various media outlets, here's a word from one of our Canadian friends:

Israel, Palestine & the Big Lie of Moral Relativism
By David Warren

Earlier this week, our press briefly dwelled on the Israeli refusal to allow the elected Palestinian prime minister, Ismail Haniya of Hamas, to enter Gaza, with a reported $30 million of foreign donations for his terror movement. Shocking behaviour on the part of Israel! An outrageous overreaction to the modest toll of Israeli citizens, mangled by the daily bombardment of rockets fired from the Gaza territory. (Alert to over-literal readers: I am employing the rhetorical figure of "sarcasm", and may again.)

More HERE: RealClearPolitics - Articles - Israel, Palestine & the Big Lie of Moral Relativism

 

[Volker]

It is pretty much part of daily life for those Israelis who live in northern Israel. On most days one or more rockets are fired into Israel from Gaza or southern Lebanon.

They have cease fires in the North and the South, I would be rather surprised if there are rockets flying.

But the liberal anti-Israel media doesn't really keep us informed of that do they.

I don't know about your media, I think, Palestine is pretty much in the focus of the news here.

 

[AlbqOwl]

They have cease fires in the North and the South, I would be rather surprised if there are rockets flying.

I don't know about your media, I think, Palestine is pretty much in the focus of the news here.

You're in Germany? If you agree with your countrymen that I banter with a lot on another forum, you are probably more in sympathy with the Palestinians than the Israelis and your media also reflects that. Our media has a lot re the Israelis/Palestinians etc. and it too is large sympathetic to the Palestinians. You have to hunt for anything that shows the Israeli side of it.

Here is one:

JERUSALEM – The Israeli Defense Forces has been instructed by the government here not to open fire or take any action against militants who are discovered launching rockets into the Jewish state, senior military officials told WND today.

The officials said Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's security cabinet changed the IDF's rules of engagement after a cease-fire went into effect Nov. 26. Now, if Palestinians in the Gaza Strip are caught launching rockets at Jewish cities, the Israeli military is forbidden to respond, the military officials said.

Previously, the IDF used artillery units and aerial strikes against militants discovered in the process of launching rockets.

Since the truce was agreed to last week, about 20 rockets have been launched from Gaza into Jewish cities nearby.
MORE HERE:
WorldNetDaily: Israel allowing rocket attacks on Jews?

Personally, if I was in charge of Israel, I would send in the fighters and tanks and clear out the whole bunch, reclaim the ground for Israel, and advise Lebanon it will do the same mile by mile into their country until the rocket attacks stop.

 

[Volker]

You're in Germany?

Yes, I am.

If you agree with your countrymen that I banter with a lot on another forum, you are probably more in sympathy with the Palestinians than the Israelis and your media also reflects that. Our media has a lot re the Israelis/Palestinians etc. and it too is large sympathetic to the Palestinians. You have to hunt for anything that shows the Israeli side of it.

No, we get the Israeli side of it, too, on n-tv for instance they are kinda fair.
Their correspondent used to post a lot at n-tv forum in the past.

 

[Tashah]

This article is about Gaza and your stupid warmongering dribble is about Lebanon.

Moderator's Warning:

If I were you Herr Volker, I would be very careful not to let my Basement personage leach topside. Don't imagine for a moment that I have forgotten.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Yes, I am.

No, we get the Israeli side of it, too, on n-tv for instance they are kinda fair.
Their correspondent used to post a lot at n-tv forum in the past.

Perhaps. I'm not there and you are. But you didn't seem to know about the 20 odd rockets that Palestinians have fired into Israel since the November 26 cease fire. So they must not be informing you of that.

 

[BudLizard101]

I can't tell you, if they did, but I would expect, it was in the news.

How much more one sided can you get. heh

Somehow you know EVERY palestinian death and exactly what(according to anti-Israeli media) happened, but as soon as something bad happens to Israel, you don't even know about it.

 

[Volker]

Perhaps. I'm not there and you are. But you didn't seem to know about the 20 odd rockets that Palestinians have fired into Israel since the November 26 cease fire. So they must not be informing you of that.

I can't tell you, if they did, but I would expect, it was in the news.

I checked the internet archive and they have it there. I realized that the n-tv Middle East correspondend came back to debate on our forum there.

 

[Vader]

How much more one sided can you get. heh

Somehow you know EVERY palestinian death and exactly what(according to anti-Israeli media) happened, but as soon as something bad happens to Israel, you don't even know about it.

He can't help it, BudLizard, he's from a country famous for the genocidal destruction of its indigenous jewish population. In addition to that, he's a follower of the great brainwashers paradise called Islam. As such, he was trained from the womb to hate all jews and to dispise all non-muslims.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Unfair to Volker guys. He has been straightforward and courteous and your attempts to smear him are entirely uncalled for. He is no more responsible for the Holocaust than you are for slavery in the USA or the Salem witch burnings. As the USA has evolved into a country worthy of respect, Germany also has much to commend it. So just cool it, okay?

Far better for us to be able to discuss our disagreements and know than neither of us has to be evil.