• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Israel Vs Palestine - the hard facts

Status
Not open for further replies.

Sanitas

Active member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
459
Reaction score
81
Location
The world.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
The website below provides accurate, modern statistics on the Israel/Palestine conflict. Most of the stats shocked me, but all of the presented info is cited and I could find no flaw in the way it was presented. Check it out!

If Americans Knew - what every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is one of the world’s major sources of instability. Americans are directly connected to this conflict, and increasingly imperiled by its devastation.

It is the goal of If Americans Knew to provide full and accurate information on this critical issue, and on our power – and duty – to bring a resolution.

The website

I haven't been active on DP in quite some time, but when I stumbledupon and ultimately read this, I immediately thought of posting this to the forum.
 

digsbe

Truth will set you free
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
20,235
Reaction score
14,250
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Honestly, I find the link to be blatantly biased with terms like "Current Illegal Settlements on the Other’s Land." They are trying to shape opinion based on statistics and leave out the facts that Hamas is a terrorist organization and has vowed to destroy Israel along with the death caused by Hamas or resulting firm Israeli defensive operations necessary to protect Israelis from Hamas aggression. The facts are beyond dry statistics and half truths.
 

Degreez

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Messages
3,216
Reaction score
1,021
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Honestly, I find the link to be blatantly biased with terms like "Current Illegal Settlements on the Other’s Land."
Well there are currently illegal settlements on occupied land. Do you disagree with any part of that?
They are trying to shape opinion based on statistics and leave out the facts that Hamas is a terrorist organization and has vowed to destroy Israel along with the death caused by Hamas or resulting firm Israeli defensive operations necessary to protect Israelis from Hamas aggression. The facts are beyond dry statistics and half truths.
And you forget the history of Hamas and how Israel supported them:
Analysis: Hamas history tied to Israel - UPI.com
Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years.

Israel "aided Hamas directly -- the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization)," said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic Studies.

Israel's support for Hamas "was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative," said a former senior CIA official.
 

CaptainCourtesy

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
156,720
Reaction score
53,491
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The website posted in the OP, is nothing but an anti-Israel site, chock full of misrepresentations and inaccuracies, and rather than painting a full picture of the situation in the ME, paints a completely biased position. Most of what it does is demonize Israel by misrepresenting information. Whenever information from the site is posted at DP, laughter usually ensues, as demonstrating it's invalidity to whatever is being discussed is rather easy.
 

mbig

onomatopoeic
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
10,350
Reaction score
4,989
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
The website below provides accurate, modern statistics on the Israel/Palestine conflict. Most of the stats shocked me, but all of the presented info is cited and I could find no flaw in the way it was presented. Check it out!

If Americans Knew - what every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine
'IfAmericansknew' is an Infamous and Wildly bigoted anti-Israel site.
All of us familiar with the ongoing debate know the site and it's bigoted owner (Alison Weird) quite well, tho unfortunately you take this obviously biased site at face value.

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=35&x_article=896
"....Headed by Alison Weir, If Americans Knew is characterized by harsh anti-Israeli charges.
Weir and her organization parrot discredited claims that Israel attacks Palestinians with "mysterious poison gas," (Link) called Israel an "apartheid nation," describe Palestinian violence as a "legitimate right and ... moral duty" (Link) and even refer to the founding of Israel as the start of a "holocaust."
("I listened to old people who described the start of this holocaust – over fifty years ago, at the end of an earlier one," Weir writes.)

This, along with the fact that Weir describes the partisan al-Jazeera and the virulently anti-Israel Washington Report on Middle East Affairs as some of "the best online sources" on the Middle East and Israel, raises serious doubts about the ability of her organization to credibly comment on American media coverage of the Israeli-Arab conflict.
[........]
Weir's pseudoscientific study and absurd conclusions are not so surprising in light of her history of distortion. For example, she claims that "Israel has a record of attacking its neighbors - mounting massive invasions of surrounding territory in 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1982."

"...Weir, like most propagandists, neglects to mention this context. On her Web site, she even absurdly refers to the 1967 war as a "Pearl Harbor-like surprise attack on Egypt," a laughable assertion that no sober-minded historian would take seriously. Her assertion ignores the fact that before Israel's preemptive strike, Egypt expelled UN peacekeepers meant to separate the two sides, provocatively massed its troops on its border with Israel, threatened to destroy the country, and, in an act of war, illegally blockaded the Israeli port of Eilat..."

But even more preposterous is Weir's assertion that Israel "attacked" and "invaded" surrounding countries in 1948. During the 1948 War of Independence, it was Israel that was illegally attacked and invaded by its neighbors, which sought to destroy the nascent Jewish state. This attack by the Arab countries and the Palestinians was a violation of United Nations Resolution 181 (the Partition Resolution) and the UN Charter. Israel managed to fight off the attackers, but did not "invade" the attacking countries.

Other falsehoods by Weir and If Americans Knew include: the claim that Israeli soldiers "regularly targeted children"; that Israelis mistaken identity attack on the U.S.S. Liberty was deliberate; that "in 1948, Israel declared its 'independence' on 78% of Palestine" (when in fact the country declared independence only over the land allotted to it by the United Nations – about 10% of historic Palestine or 55% of Palestine without TransJordan);..."

Sanitas said:
I haven't been active on DP in quite some time, but when I stumbledupon and ultimately read this, I immediately thought of posting this to the forum.
That's what happens when you 'stumpleupon' and have predisposition to one side.
 
Last edited:

CaptainCourtesy

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
156,720
Reaction score
53,491
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
'IfAmericansknew' is an Infamous and Wildly bigoted anti-Israel site.
All of us familiar with the ongoing debate know the site and it's bigoted owner (Alison Weird) quite well, tho it's unfortunately a revelation to you.

CAMERA: Study of New York Times Coverage Severely Flawed


That's what hapens when you 'stumpleupon' and have predisposition to one side.

Yeah, it's a pretty ridiculous site. NO ONE around here DARES use it as a source, as it usually evokes laughter and ridicule in regards to the "information" that it presents. And notice the quotes around "information".
 

Degreez

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Messages
3,216
Reaction score
1,021
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
The website posted in the OP, is nothing but an anti-Israel site, chock full of misrepresentations and inaccuracies, and rather than painting a full picture of the situation in the ME, paints a completely biased position. Most of what it does is demonize Israel by misrepresenting information. Whenever information from the site is posted at DP, laughter usually ensues, as demonstrating it's invalidity to whatever is being discussed is rather easy.

So refute these "misrepresentation and inaccuracies". It's just as laughable if someone were to use... CAMERA:
In 2005, Donald Wagner, Executive Director of the Center for Middle Eastern Studies and Associate Professor of Religion and Middle Eastern Studies at Northpark University, accused the organization of "extremist pro-Israel propaganda" and argued that "Israel and its friends at CAMERA claimed "there were no new settlements" while "not only did the settler population double, so too did new settlement construction in the 108 new 'settlement outposts' established between the end of 1992 and 2000"
 

mbig

onomatopoeic
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
10,350
Reaction score
4,989
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
So refute these "misrepresentation and inaccuracies". It's just as laughable if someone were to use... CAMERA:
CAMERA cites specific Misstatements of fact/Whoppers!.. you post a mere opinion.
and without even a link.

But who is 'Donald Wagner' you cite?
Actually its "Rev" Donald I found as a 'sabeel' speaker.
http://kcsabeelconference.cjme.org/speakers.htm
He's as frequent WRMEA author//// IOW, a circlular defense.

Rev. Don Wagner, a cofounder of Evangelicals for Middle East Understanding, is professor of religion and Middle Eastern studies at North Park University, Chicago. Among his books are his most recent, Dying in the Land of Promise: Palestine and Palestinian Christianity from Pentecost to 2000, and Anxious for Armageddon-which deals with Christian Zionism and alternative ways of understanding scripture and the Christian tradition.

Conference workshop topic: "Understanding Christian Zionism"

Background article: "Speaking the Truth" (Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, May/June 2006)

Background article: "Neocons, Christian Zionists Assessed" (Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, January/February 2004)
 
Last edited:

CaptainCourtesy

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
156,720
Reaction score
53,491
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
So refute these "misrepresentation and inaccuracies". It's just as laughable if someone were to use... CAMERA:

Nice attempt at a diversion. From what I see, the OP is about the website ifamericansknew, not about CAMERA.
 

mac

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
22,499
Reaction score
4,266
Location
DC Metro
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
I always wonder about Americans who judge Isreal in a bad light. This is a nation that lives under constant threat of attack, both overt and terrorist. Imagine living in a nation where going to the grocery store might result in death by suicide bomber. Or say, you're enjoying a nice bbq in your back yard and suddenly a mortar lands in it and blows up your entire family.

Look what happened to America following 9/11. Look at our reaction to 1 terrorist attack on our soil....imagine what we'd be like if 9/11 were a common occurrence.
 

Gardener

free market communist
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
26,657
Reaction score
15,927
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The website below provides accurate, modern statistics on the Israel/Palestine conflict. Most of the stats shocked me, but all of the presented info is cited and I could find no flaw in the way it was presented. Check it out!

If Americans Knew - what every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine



The website

I haven't been active on DP in quite some time, but when I stumbledupon and ultimately read this, I immediately thought of posting this to the forum.

Congratulations. You found a hate site.
Thanks for sharing.
 

Shayah

יותר מקו
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
865
Reaction score
388
Location
תל אביב
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Centrist
The website posted in the OP, is nothing but an anti-Israel site, chock full of misrepresentations and inaccuracies, and rather than painting a full picture of the situation in the ME, paints a completely biased position. Most of what it does is demonize Israel by misrepresenting information. Whenever information from the site is posted at DP, laughter usually ensues, as demonstrating it's invalidity to whatever is being discussed is rather easy.
Indeed. This is a very well known anti-Israel propaganda website.
 

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
20,135
Reaction score
6,384
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
The website below provides accurate, modern statistics on the Israel/Palestine conflict. Most of the stats shocked me, but all of the presented info is cited and I could find no flaw in the way it was presented. Check it out!

If Americans Knew - what every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine



The website

I haven't been active on DP in quite some time, but when I stumbledupon and ultimately read this, I immediately thought of posting this to the forum.

Why not just go all the way and recommend on the electronic intifada website?
 

CaptainCourtesy

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
156,720
Reaction score
53,491
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Then how can you call it a diversion? Unless, of course, you cannot refute anything from IfAmericansKnew.

It was a diversion because instead of addressing the OP, you turned your attention to another website. Your initial sentence was pretty silly. Regardless of your position, Degreez, I doubt you could perceive ifamericaknew as anything but an anti-Israeli propaganda site. Refuting it is like refuting a holocaust denial site.
 

Degreez

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Messages
3,216
Reaction score
1,021
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
It was a diversion because instead of addressing the OP, you turned your attention to another website. Your initial sentence was pretty silly. Regardless of your position, Degreez, I doubt you could perceive ifamericaknew as anything but an anti-Israeli propaganda site. Refuting it is like refuting a holocaust denial site.

I was addressing a post that someone made about the OP... you know... what you usually do on discussion boards.

Basically you are telling me you cannot refute anything on IfAmericansKnew. Otherwise, anyone can play this "oh your source is complete biased crap" game where there is no room for discussion.
 

CaptainCourtesy

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
156,720
Reaction score
53,491
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I was addressing a post that someone made about the OP... you know... what you usually do on discussion boards.

Basically you are telling me you cannot refute anything on IfAmericansKnew. Otherwise, anyone can play this "oh your source is complete biased crap" game where there is no room for discussion.

No, I'm telling you the entire site is propaganda and not worthy of discussion. Proving to you that 2+2 does not equal 5 is something that I should not need to do. If you think the site is valid, then I feel bad for you.
 

Degreez

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Messages
3,216
Reaction score
1,021
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
No, I'm telling you the entire site is propaganda and not worthy of discussion. Proving to you that 2+2 does not equal 5 is something that I should not need to do. If you think the site is valid, then I feel bad for you.

OK, then I can do the same for any pro-Israel site that anyone tries to use as a source. It's pathetic that you cannot back up your claim that IfAmericansKnew misrepresents information and posts inaccuracies.
 

Shayah

יותר מקו
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
865
Reaction score
388
Location
תל אביב
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Centrist
Jeepers. Even a chipmunk could determine it is a highly biased website
 

CaptainCourtesy

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
156,720
Reaction score
53,491
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
OK, then I can do the same for any pro-Israel site that anyone tries to use as a source. It's pathetic that you cannot back up your claim that IfAmericansKnew misrepresents information and posts inaccuracies.

Actually, it's pathetic that you give the impression that you would give a site that is so clearly a propaganda site, validity. Refuting information on it would be a no-brainer, but if you give the site validity, I have no intention of wasting my time explaining to someone why 2+2 does NOT equal 5. Believe it if you want, Degreez. Doesn't make it any more accurate.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom