• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Israel to request $5 billion in aid [W:90]

As to who is and who is not antisemitic , the best indicator would be to look at the history of statements by any given individual.

If they never give Israel a fair shake, if they routinely demonize Israel in ways they do not demonize any other people, if they question Israel's very right to exist, if they rationalize and justify terrorism against them, or if they sympathize with various groups promising to destroy them, then yes, they are antisemitic beyond any doubt.

Translation: criticizing Israel in any way makes you an anti-Semite.
 
So, even though you know few if any of the people involved. You assume that just because they are against military aid to Israel that most of them are anti-Semetic?

Gotcha.

Thank you.

I neither know nor care to know any of the people I have ever seen express that view on an internet forum. I am confident that my conclusion about their motives is accurate--that most of them sympathize with Islamists and share their dislike of Jews.
 
I neither know nor care to know any of the people I have ever seen express that view on an internet forum. I am confident that my conclusion about their motives is accurate--that most of them sympathize with Islamists and share their dislike of Jews.

The hatred is mutual.
 
I think your "translation" of that poster's statement could hardly be less accurate.

Well, under his criteria, I don't see how anyone could honestly examine the underlying Israeli/Palestinian issues without getting smeared with an ugly allegation. You basically have to put 1000% of the blame on the Palestinians, while giving Israel a complete pass.
 
that's what you get when black or white thinking is the order of the day
and for some of our members, is it ever

The order of the day for some posters on this site is to hide their real motives by couching them in benign-sounding terms. In that respect, they are much like President Pinocchio.
 
Well, under his criteria, I don't see how anyone could honestly examine the underlying Israeli/Palestinian issues without getting smeared with an ugly allegation. You basically have to put 1000% of the blame on the Palestinians, while giving Israel a complete pass.

That is exactly what I do. Any damned Jew-hating Muslim jihadist can go straight to hell, and I hope Israel sends as many of them there as soon as is practicable. The Palestinian Arabs have never wanted peace. They chose to support Israel's Arab neighbors each time they made war on it, they came out on the short end of that gamble, and now they want to cry about it. Defeated people living in territories acquired in war do not get to dictate to the victors, and yet the Arabs in these territories keep trying. Building tunnels into Israel so terrorist squads can infiltrate and murder people or kidnap them as hostages is warlike. Ambushing and murdering Israeli soldiers and civilians is warlike. Firing rockets haphazardly into Israeli towns without having first been fired at is warlike.

The Palestinian Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank have received a number of very generous, well-meaning peace offers from Israel over the years, but they prefer war. They are damned lucky Israel is not really the diabolical nation the propaganda they poison their children with claims it is. If it were, it would long since have wiped them all out, and solved the "Palestinian problem" once and for all. When someone still wants to fight, it is only because he hasn't been hit hard enough yet. Rome struggled with Carthage for a very long time--but after the Third Punic War, Carthage never caused it trouble again.

What American leftists who hold out the crying towel for the poor "Palestianians" conveniently ignore is that Arabs in that region were attacking and killing Jews long before there was any Israel. HAMAS's charter declares it is the wing of the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine, but that terrorist organization's violence against Jews goes back much further. Hassan al-Banna's Muslim Brotherhood did not foment riots against Jews in Cairo at the end of WWII, causing vast property damage and killing innocent people, because of Israel. The Mufti of Jerusalem did not meet with Hitler in Germany, and raise an Arab SS division for him, because of Israel. They and others did these things because the most orthodox texts of Islam--shari'ah, the haddith, and the Koran itself all call for believers to show animosity toward Jews.
 
Last edited:
Translation: criticizing Israel in any way makes you an anti-Semite.

Is English your second language?

It would make sense considering you were justifying Arab attitudes calling for genocide of Jews a couple of days ago.
 
Is English your second language?

It would make sense considering you were justifying Arab attitudes calling for genocide of Jews a couple of days ago.

No, I wasn't. Which begs the question of your native language.
 
No, I wasn't. Which begs the question of your native language.

Of course you were.

When the subject became one of Arabs wishing the genocide of Jews, you did not criticize the desire for genocide in any way, shape or form but placed the responsibility for such attitudes squarely upon Israel while sympathizing with the genocidal for having such a desire -- this despite the fact Arabs were calling for genocide before there even WAS an Israel.

.
 
Of course you were.

When the subject became one of Arabs wishing the genocide of Jews, you did not criticize the desire for genocide in any way, shape or form but placed the responsibility on the attitudes on Israel while sympathizing with the genocidal for having such a desire -- this despite the fact Arabs were calling for genocide before there even WAS an Israel.

If the problem is Arabs, then Israel is in serious trouble with their 20% Arab population. Somehow you never address that issue.
 
If the problem is Arabs, then Israel is in serious trouble with their 20% Arab population. Somehow you never address that issue.

So, THAT'S why justify the desire for genocide.

Thanks for explaining that.
 
So, THAT'S why justify the desire for genocide.

I didn't give a reason because I never 'justified' it. As I said, by your reckoning, you can sneeze in Israel's direction and deserve an ugly accusation. It diminishes real bigotry when you use bigotry as a shield for every criticism leveled at Israel.
 
I don't see you whining about the $150,000,000,000 check Obama gave to the Iranians, AND guarantees them a NUKE in the future? Anti-Semitic are we?

Well, that money was their's to begin with. Not yours or mine or Uncle Sam's. It was the Iranian money we were holding hostage to get them to the table. And you're simply wrong about the nuke guarantee but you are free to believe what you wish.

Not exactly apples-to-apples in your comparison. At least, I think that's how it goes.

Compromises? Negotiations? I was taught not to look a gift-horse in the mouth. They should be grateful for anything we give them. The arrogance of the GOI never ceases to amaze me.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Thread is under mod review and there are mod actions pending on posts prior this warning. The topic here is "Israel to request $5 billion in aid". The topic is not each other and it is not the I/P conflict. The only place that I/P Specific details can be discussed is in the ME forum so I suggest that you head on over there should you wish to continue the I/P Specific discussions. Please discuss the topic only and leave all personal comments aside. Thank you.
 
Oh dear, more baloney. Most commies taking up space in this country loathe it and do not wish it well, just like B. Hussein Obama. No doubt that is why they are such devoted acolytes of B Hussein Obama, the Jew-hating Marxist son of a bitch who is currently disgracing the White House. What do you mean by "decent" of U.S. policy?

Dissent! And Obama's not a communist. I wonder where you've been.
 
Israel doesn't need our help; they are more than capable of functioning independently.

Israel to request $5 billion in aid - Israel News, Ynetnews

According to the report, Israel is interested in annual aid package of 5 billion dollars for a decade - that is 50 billion dollars. But US officials argue that the aid would be higher but less than what is requested by Israel. According to Reuters, a US official estimated that the Obama administration will compromise with Netanyahu for an amount ranging between 4 and 5 billion dollars. Before the crisis regarding the nuclear deal with Iran, Israeli and American officials discussed raising the amount of the package to 3.7 to 3.6 billion dollars.

Wait I thought we were broke? What happen to that fiscal cliff we are about to go over???

At least that's what I've been hearing for the past 7 years or so from the right.
 
Wait I thought we were broke? What happen to that fiscal cliff we are about to go over???

At least that's what I've been hearing for the past 7 years or so from the right.

yep, borrow some more billions from china to give to israel so they can build more settlements on Palestinian land
what's wrong with that?
 
yep, borrow some more billions from china to give to israel so they can build more settlements on Palestinian land
what's wrong with that?

Hey no need to worry. The deficit hawks will be all over this right? right?
 
Israel has real security needs. It is a reliable strategic ally. It is also an island of relative stability and prosperity in a highly turbulent region. I support U.S. assistance to Israel and am confident that the U.S. and Israel will find a mutually acceptable figure and Congress will adopt the required legislation with broad bipartisan support.
 
Israel has real security needs. It is a reliable strategic ally. It is also an island of relative stability and prosperity in a highly turbulent region. I support U.S. assistance to Israel and am confident that the U.S. and Israel will find a mutually acceptable figure and Congress will adopt the required legislation with broad bipartisan support.

"Mutually acceptable figure?" Like, we OWE them money like a light bill, rent or a tax? They should be grateful for ANY handout we give them.

I can just see myself now, down at the welfare office, negotiating with Uncle Sam about how much welfare I think he should pay me.

The arrogance is astounding! What is this? Extortion? Blackmail? Why should Israel have ANY say about how much we give them in hand-outs? Are politicians buying the jewish vote? What? I don't get it. We have HOMELESS veterans right here in our own country and we're worrying about paying Israel all this money and whether they find the amount acceptable or not?

Oi vey!!
 
"Mutually acceptable figure?" Like, we OWE them money like a light bill, rent or a tax? They should be grateful for ANY handout we give them.

I can just see myself now, down at the welfare office, negotiating with Uncle Sam about how much welfare I think he should pay me.

The arrogance is astounding! What is this? Extortion? Blackmail? Why should Israel have ANY say about how much we give them in hand-outs? Are politicians buying the jewish vote? What? I don't get it. We have HOMELESS veterans right here in our own country and we're worrying about paying Israel all this money and whether they find the amount acceptable or not?

Oi vey!!

No one is suggesting that the U.S. "owes" Israel or any other country money (except on the money we've borrowed). Instead, providing such assistance is an investment in strengthening an American ally. The benefits e.g., stability, that flow from that investment, help sustain and strengthen American interests. Countries provide foreign aid, not because they "owe" it or for purely altruistic reasons, but because such aid strengthens their own national interests.
 
its important as some have on this thread to make clear we are talking about military aid, specifically the F35 and Osprey.

The F35 is being developed as much by Israel as it is the US. The military industrial complex behind the F35 is dependent on Israeli computer technology, and Israeli body design refinement.

The article is misleading in regards to the F35. The F35 is under development. It is not functional. In fact the IAF is requesting more of them to work on them. Right now quite frankly the IAF pilots want nothing to do with them. They are proving to be a disaster. The list of defects and problems are so long as not to discuss.

I doubt when all is said and done the F35 will ever be used. Its a total design disaster trying to be 5 things in one and not good at any of them.

Its a disaster. The Osprey is an excellent weapon and depends on Israeli refinement as well and has direct significance for fighting terrorism.

Military assistance to Israel provides huge tax incentives and benefits to the US. The US does not send weapons to Israel unless its part of a process whereby Israel
refines the weapon, sends the refinement back to the US who in turn can then turn around and sell a version of that refinement to other countries.

Its not one way aid. Israel is in effect a branch of the US military development process. Its misleading to call it aid. True aid is one way.

Nothing the US sends to Israel militarily is unilateral in benefit. Its not how the US operates.

Actual financial aid to Israel ended years ago.

The continuing military exchanges which is what we are really talking about will continue.

Now its interesting because the F35 some say is going to hurt both Israel and the US and should be scrapped.

The best jet out there is the F22 Raptor, not for sale by the US Air Force to anyone. The new modified F15's and F18's are
probably less problematic then the F35. Israel could develop a jet on its own and many argue it should. It created the Tsfir jet but the US shut that down not wanting Israel to have its own jet. It promised Israel jets in lieu of them making their own.

Israel has the technology but it won't turn its back on the US over the F35 not withstanding Obama.
 
its important as some have on this thread to make clear we are talking about military aid, specifically the F35 and Osprey.

The F35 is being developed as much by Israel as it is the US. The military industrial complex behind the F35 is dependent on Israeli computer technology, and Israeli body design refinement.

The article is misleading in regards to the F35. The F35 is under development. It is not functional. In fact the IAF is requesting more of them to work on them. Right now quite frankly the IAF pilots want nothing to do with them. They are proving to be a disaster. The list of defects and problems are so long as not to discuss.

I doubt when all is said and done the F35 will ever be used. Its a total design disaster trying to be 5 things in one and not good at any of them.

Its a disaster. The Osprey is an excellent weapon and depends on Israeli refinement as well and has direct significance for fighting terrorism.

Military assistance to Israel provides huge tax incentives and benefits to the US. The US does not send weapons to Israel unless its part of a process whereby Israel
refines the weapon, sends the refinement back to the US who in turn can then turn around and sell a version of that refinement to other countries.

Its not one way aid. Israel is in effect a branch of the US military development process. Its misleading to call it aid. True aid is one way.

Nothing the US sends to Israel militarily is unilateral in benefit. Its not how the US operates.

Actual financial aid to Israel ended years ago.

The continuing military exchanges which is what we are really talking about will continue.

Now its interesting because the F35 some say is going to hurt both Israel and the US and should be scrapped.

The best jet out there is the F22 Raptor, not for sale by the US Air Force to anyone. The new modified F15's and F18's are
probably less problematic then the F35. Israel could develop a jet on its own and many argue it should. It created the Tsfir jet but the US shut that down not wanting Israel to have its own jet. It promised Israel jets in lieu of them making their own.

Israel has the technology but it won't turn its back on the US over the F35 not withstanding Obama.

I agree that the "aid" we are told about could be better explained. Thank you for your input. I don't feel like Israel is screwing us over as badly as I previously thought.

Myself, without having critically looked in to this yet, would be quick to say they should build their own **** and we build our own ****. I think the US can do just fine without Israeli "refinement" <snicker>.
 
Israel has real security needs. It is a reliable strategic ally. It is also an island of relative stability and prosperity in a highly turbulent region. I support U.S. assistance to Israel and am confident that the U.S. and Israel will find a mutually acceptable figure and Congress will adopt the required legislation with broad bipartisan support.

i am with you. 100%
just as long as israel agrees to terminate its settlements on the lands of another people
and engages in good faith negotiations to either recognize Palestine's sovereign status or how the Palestinian people will be treated in a one-state solution
 
Back
Top Bottom