Israel continues to violate ceasefire with Lebanon, sees no irony

[Degreez]

His bio can be found at:

Ariel Sharon

This is just blatant historical revisionism. Not once in that "biography" is their anything about Sharon's actions taken at Sabra and Shatila. Nothing in there about how he is solely responsible for the deaths of numerous civilians.

And that is only the tip of the iceberg, as far as Israeli leaders being terrorists on the side. Look at Nathan Yellin-Mor. He planned the assassination of Lord Moyne. He planned the assassination of UN Mediator Folke Bernadotte. He was behind the assassination attempts on British High Commissioner in Palestine, Sir Harold MacMichael. He was granted amnesty for his terroristic crimes once the new nation was formed.

 

[Gardener]

Sometimes I'm so appalled and repulsed by the left I'm speechless. What can you say about this level of blind bigotry?

It's just amazing.

The repulsiveness keeps growing by leaps and bounds, with more of these illiberal leftists throwing in their lot with Islamists every day.

Man, I miss the day when liberalism was the guiding principle of the left instead of this Eurabian brand of Jew hatred.

 

[Winston Smith]

The repulsiveness keeps growing by leaps and bounds, with more of these illiberal leftists throwing in their lot with Islamists every day.

Man, I miss the day when liberalism was the guiding principle of the left instead of this Eurabian brand of Jew hatred.

I miss the day when anti-Semitism was taken seriously for the cancer that it is, not trivialized by right-wing extremists who falsely claim to speak for all Jews. The only way I could find that kind of opportunism any more repulsive would be if I were Jewish.

 

[donsutherland1]

This is just blatant historical revisionism. Not once in that "biography" is their anything about Sharon's actions taken at Sabra and Shatila. Nothing in there about how he is solely responsible for the deaths of numerous civilians...

The bio states:

In 1983, Sharon resigned as Defense Minister after a government commission found him indirectly responsible for the September 1982 massacre of Palestinians at the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps by Lebanese Phalangists.

That is consistent with a BBC News Account, which states:

Mr Sharon resigned his post after an Israeli commission of inquiry established that he bore indirect responsibility for the deaths for "having disregarded the danger of acts of vengeance" by the militias when he allowed them into the camps.

The Kahane Commission inquiry said LF intelligence chief Elie Hobeika had direct responsibility, because he ordered the killings.

Should he have known about the risks involved? I agree with the Kahane Commission that he should have.

 

[Winston Smith]

Sharon never was a terrorist or a memeber of a terrorist organization.
Begin wasn't just elected as Prime minister, apperently this Archterrorist and mass murderer did such a good job in his days as a terrorist that he was given the Nobel Peace Prize.

Well...along with Henry Kissinger and Yasser Arafat, so I'm not sure how much that says.

 

[Gardener]

I miss the day when anti-Semitism was taken seriously for the cancer that it is, not trivialized by right-wing extremists who falsely claim to speak for all Jews. The only way I could find that kind of opportunism any more repulsive would be if I were Jewish.

You wouldn't recognize the cancer even if the patient were dead from it.

 

[Hicup]

What's wrong with flying over another nations airspace, without permission? We do it all the time as the US of A?


Tim-

 

[jmh423]

Originally Posted by jmh423
A few years back I read in an Israeli newspaper about Sharon and others gathering at the site of the King David Hotel to celebrate the anniversery of the cold blooded and sneaky mass murder there.

Please provide a link to this alleged story.

Israel celebrates Irgun hotel bombers - Telegraph

Alleged story, my *** champ!!..

"This week, former Irgun fighters and current Right-wing politicians unveiled the plaque at the hotel, which read: "The hotel housed the Mandate Secretariat as well as the Army Headquarters. On July 22, 1946, Irgun fighters at the order of the Hebrew Resistance Movement planted explosives in the basement.

Terrorist murders like Begin, Sharon and many others have been elected to high office in Israel and are still revered by the ignorant masses in the "Criminal State"...

 

[Hicup]

Originally Posted by jmh423
A few years back I read in an Israeli newspaper about Sharon and others gathering at the site of the King David Hotel to celebrate the anniversery of the cold blooded and sneaky mass murder there.






Israel celebrates Irgun hotel bombers - Telegraph

Alleged story, my *** champ!!..

"This week, former Irgun fighters and current Right-wing politicians unveiled the plaque at the hotel, which read: "The hotel housed the Mandate Secretariat as well as the Army Headquarters. On July 22, 1946, Irgun fighters at the order of the Hebrew Resistance Movement planted explosives in the basement.

Terrorist murders like Begin, Sharon and many others have been elected to high office in Israel and are still revered by the ignorant masses in the "Criminal State"...

Oh brother?


Tim-

 

[alexa]

Oh brother?


Tim-

Not sure what you mean here. From the article it does appear that Israel originally claimed she had given warning and that the British had ignored that warning. This was not true and Israel has now removed talk of the warning from the plaque. Are you suggesting that you believe it is all right for Israel to deliberately kill civilians and even more to put up plagues rejoicing in it, while at the same time declaring herself morally superior as she bombs a small area of land where obviously the most people killed will be civilians because a few of her own civilians have been killed by terrorists. She believes these terrorists are inhumane but celebrates her own deliberate mass killing of civilians.

This I think is doublespeak.

 

[ido_]

wasn't he a member of the Haganah since a very early age?

He was a member of the Palmach which is a branch of the Haganah, the Haganah wasn't a terrorist organization

wasn't he involved in quite a few massacres agaisnt Arab villages such as Deir Yassin ?

No the Deir Yassin massacre was done by the Lehi and the Irgun

wasn't he forced to resign from his position as defense minister because of his responsibility in the massacres of Sabra and Shatila ?

Yes he was because of his ministerial responsibility, I don't see how Lebanise butchering other Lebanise making him a terrorist

 

[Mira]

He was a member of the Palmach which is a branch of the Haganah, the Haganah wasn't a terrorist organization



No the Deir Yassin massacre was done by the Lehi and the Irgun



Yes he was because of his ministerial responsibility, I don't see how Lebanise butchering other Lebanise making him a terrorist

For some reason I'm not at all surprised by your replies.

I'm not sure about Deir Yassin but his hands are so full of blood that it makes no difference at all.

As to Sabra and Shatila, I'm not going to go into that discussion again because we will never agree. But you do know that the Lebanese Forces who committed the massacre while the IDF watched were your Lebanese puppets right ?

 

[ido_]

For some reason I'm not at all surprised by your replies.

What should be supprising? that the Haganah wasn't a terrorist organization? or that the Deir Yassin massacre was done by the Lehi and the Irgun and that Sharon is not connected to this incident in any way?

I'm not sure about Deir Yassin

Then check your info before you falsely accuse one of being terrorist basing on something you are not sure of.

but his hands are so full of blood that it makes no difference at all

Just as any other soldier in the IDF who fought in 3 wars

As to Sabra and Shatila, I'm not going to go into that discussion again because we will never agree. But you do know that the Lebanese Forces who committed the massacre while the IDF watched were your Lebanese puppets right ?

I do, and it was wrong, but not taking a stand doesn't make you a terrorist, engaging in terrorisem does.

 

[Winston Smith]

You wouldn't recognize the cancer even if the patient were dead from it.

History has a way of putting things into perspective. The Jewish experience of the last century has largely been defined by the Holocaust. Over time, the story of the modern state of Israel will become part of that perspective as well, and unfortunately it will weaken the memory of past persecutions to some extent. That's the legacy Israel's leadership will have left behind. Jewish people of conscience--and they will always exist, despite efforts to marginalize them--will recognize the moral dishonesty of Israel's conduct and do their best to distance themselves from what you defend.

 

[Mira]

What should be supprising? that the Haganah wasn't a terrorist organization? or that the Deir Yassin massacre was done by the Lehi and the Irgun and that Sharon is not connected to this incident in any way?.

No, I was talking about your entire post

Then check your info before you falsely accuse one of being terrorist basing on something you are not sure of.



Just as any other soldier in the IDF who fought in 3 wars

No thanks. I don't need to spoil my day checking out about that disgusting criminal. May he rot in hell !

I do, and it was wrong, but not taking a stand doesn't make you a terrorist, engaging in terrorisem does.

You mean the women, children and the elderly who were left behind in the camps were considered to be engaged in terrorism and deserved to be butchererd ?

I'm glad that finally an Israeli agreed that it all happned while the IDF watched their puppets do the dirty job.

 

[ido_]

No thanks. I don't need to spoil my day checking out about that disgusting criminal. May he rot in hell !

Yea, why should you, spreading lies is so much fun.

You mean the women, children and the elderly who were left behind in the camps were considered to be engaged in terrorism and deserved to be butchererd ?

Do not put words in my mouth, I did not say that, I said that Sharon is not a terrorist because he did not engage in terrorisem.

I'm glad that finally an Israeli agreed that it all happned while the IDF watched their puppets do the dirty job.

They were not our puppets and most certianly didn't do our job, your people have enough hatered to eachother, you don't need us to drive you to butcher women and children in cold blood.

 

[Gardener]

For some reason I'm not at all surprised by your replies.

Yes, he is honest.

It's a good thing you noticed.

 

[CJ 2.0]

This is just blatant historical revisionism. Not once in that "biography" is their anything about Sharon's actions taken at Sabra and Shatila. Nothing in there about how he is solely responsible for the deaths of numerous civilians.

umm, no he wasn't. Even remotely. This was a massacre perpetrated by Christians, seeking vengance for massacres of their people by the PLO. It was appalling, and Sharon clearly had responsibility because he allowed it to happen, but to say that he was "solely responsible", as if there was no responsibility anywhere else, is patently ridiculous.

Now to be fair, Sharon did do things that would qualify as beyond the pale (he was in charge of Commando Unit 101, if I remember correctly, which was in charge of reprisal raids to avenge the murder of Israeli civilians), but the continued distortion around Sabra and Shatila is just a continued reminder of how ... reality averse the anti-Israeli crowd really is.

 

[CJ 2.0]

Originally Posted by jmh423
A few years back I read in an Israeli newspaper about Sharon and others gathering at the site of the King David Hotel to celebrate the anniversery of the cold blooded and sneaky mass murder there.

Israel celebrates Irgun hotel bombers - Telegraph

Alleged story, my *** champ!!..

"This week, former Irgun fighters and current Right-wing politicians unveiled the plaque at the hotel, which read: "The hotel housed the Mandate Secretariat as well as the Army Headquarters. On July 22, 1946, Irgun fighters at the order of the Hebrew Resistance Movement planted explosives in the basement.

Terrorist murders like Begin, Sharon and many others have been elected to high office in Israel and are still revered by the ignorant masses in the "Criminal State"...

I still fail to see how bombing the military headquarters of an occupying force qualifies as "terrorism" equivalent to blowing one's self up in a pizza parlour full of civilians.

Seriously, I get that there are moral and legal issues with this bombing, I really do. But the level of distortion created by the anti-Israel corwd to try to mitigate the evilness of sustained Arab and Palestinian terrorism directed solely at Israeli civilians is just absurd.

The Irgun targted the command centre of the occupying army. The command centre was located in a civilian building. But that would not have immunized it from attack, and the location of the military target would not transform the act of attacking it into terrorism.

 

[donsutherland1]

Now to be fair, Sharon did do things that would qualify as beyond the pale (he was in charge of Commando Unit 101, if I remember correctly, which was in charge of reprisal raids to avenge the murder of Israeli civilians), but the continued distortion around Sabra and Shatila is just a continued reminder of how ... reality averse the anti-Israeli crowd really is.

The seeming ignoring of facts is troubling. For instance, the claim that "Not once in that 'biography' is their anything about Sharon's actions taken at Sabra and Shatila," simply is not accurate. In fact, the biography makes specific reference to the Sabra and Shatila massacre. It states:

In 1983, Sharon resigned as Defense Minister after a government commission found him indirectly responsible for the September 1982 massacre of Palestinians at the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps by Lebanese Phalangists.

 

[CJ 2.0]

For some reason I'm not at all surprised by your replies.

I'm not sure about Deir Yassin but his hands are so full of blood that it makes no difference at all.

As to Sabra and Shatila, I'm not going to go into that discussion again because we will never agree. But you do know that the Lebanese Forces who committed the massacre while the IDF watched were your Lebanese puppets right ?

Yes, yes. Puppets. No responsibility for their own actions, with all responsibility falling on those caniving Jews who manipulate others so perfectly under their control.

Now I know this isn't where you are coming from, but it is a common meme, and it's silly. Those Lebanese were acting out of their own interests and for their own purposes. They purposely and pre-meditatively undertook this massacre, without the direct or indirect pre-approval or foreknowledge of the Israelis.

In a bizarro world, sure, they would just be innocent puppets while the Israelis would be "solely responsible", but here in real life, they and only they are responsible for their actions.

I should add this ties into the typical middle eastern approach of blaming everybody but themselves for anything bad that happens. t is a serious cultural defficiency and serious effort will need to be directed to addressing it in order to move forward.

 

[CJ 2.0]

History has a way of putting things into perspective. The Jewish experience of the last century has largely been defined by the Holocaust. Over time, the story of the modern state of Israel will become part of that perspective as well, and unfortunately it will weaken the memory of past persecutions to some extent. That's the legacy Israel's leadership will have left behind. Jewish people of conscience--and they will always exist, despite efforts to marginalize them--will recognize the moral dishonesty of Israel's conduct and do their best to distance themselves from what you defend.

In other words, the only good Jew is a powerless Jew who lives at the sufferance of others and is ever the victim.

Not what you meant, but it is exactly the same point.

Think about it.

 

[CJ 2.0]

The seeming ignoring of facts is troubling. For instance, the claim that "Not once in that 'biography' is their anything about Sharon's actions taken at Sabra and Shatila," simply is not accurate. In fact, the biography makes specific reference to the Sabra and Shatila massacre. It states:

Troubling, but entirely consistent. to infer what was going on behind the screen, I suspect what was really meant was "not once in the biography did it repeat what I believe to be true", which therefore means the biography isn't accurate, because everythign I believe about Israel is true (because I learned it from electronic intifadah, etc.).

Scoring points and maintaining hostility are more important than discussing, analyzing and distilling information in order to understand history and current realities.

 

[Winston Smith]

In other words, the only good Jew is a powerless Jew who lives at the sufferance of others and is ever the victim.

Not what you meant, but it is exactly the same point.

Think about it.

Not at all; not even close. A good Jew, like a good person of any religion or nationality, is someone who respects humane values in times of war and peace.

 

[Mira]

Yes, yes. Puppets. No responsibility for their own actions, with all responsibility falling on those caniving Jews who manipulate others so perfectly under their control.

Now I know this isn't where you are coming from, but it is a common meme, and it's silly. Those Lebanese were acting out of their own interests and for their own purposes. They purposely and pre-meditatively undertook this massacre, without the direct or indirect pre-approval or foreknowledge of the Israelis.

In a bizarro world, sure, they would just be innocent puppets while the Israelis would be "solely responsible", but here in real life, they and only they are responsible for their actions.

I should add this ties into the typical middle eastern approach of blaming everybody but themselves for anything bad that happens. t is a serious cultural defficiency and serious effort will need to be directed to addressing it in order to move forward.

I think you are forgetting the context. This was happeneing in 1982, Israel was in control of Beirut and it had appointed its Lebanese ally Bachir Gemayel, the leader of the Christian Lebanese Forces as the President of Lebanon.

The massacres took place right after the assassination of Gemayel. The Christian Lebanese Forces who saught revenge were allowed to go into the camps by the IDF who was in control not only of Beirut but also responsible of the camps from which the combattants had earlier been evacuated and shipped out.

The IDF not only could clearly see what was going on in the camps, it also continuelly fired flare bombs into the sky in order to allow the Christian Lebanese Forces to do the dirty job.