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Israel and U.S to take out Iran?

MSgt

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Touchmaster said:
noone has commented on the strange coincidence between increasingly aggressive US rhetoric against Iran and the March 2006 opening of the Euro oil bourse in that country...(with it's threatening of the Dollar's hegemony in oil trading)?

Maybe no one has commented on it, because it is a ludicrous view point and they are keeping an unbiased more worldy open mind. So much for your "America the evil" grandstanding....


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060121/wl_nm/nuclear_iran_dc_127

I'm sure that Iran will continue to be in the spotlight despite it's transferring of funds from Euro banks.
 

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What has that got to do with a Euro trading oil bourse?
 

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Touchmaster said:
and it has broken none of its obligations with regards to sticking to peaceful nuclear power protocols thus far,

And you have been able to penetrate the Iranian nuclear program and know this how?

Touchmaster said:
noone has commented on the strange coincidence between increasingly aggressive US rhetoric against Iran and the March 2006 opening of the Euro oil bourse in that country...(with it's threatening of the Dollar's hegemony in oil trading)?

This has been talked about since 2000. Depending on who is doing the talking, it is claimed as the end of the dollar and the beginning of a rapid descent into depression of the US economy coupled with the rapid ascendancy of all middle eastern Arab economies (whether they are oil producers or not). Others say that "the invasion of Iraq had less to do with any threat from Saddam's long-gone weapons of mass destruction program...than it has to do with gaining control over Iraq's hydrocarbon reserves". One so-called analyst, William Clark has written,

"Unfortunately, it has become clear that yet another manufactured war, or some type of covert operation is inevitable under President Bush … Numerous news reports … have revealed that the neo-conservatives are quietly — but actively — planning for the second petrodollar war, this time against Iran.

http://www.cpa.org.au/garchve05/1215iran.html

Whichever side of the argument you come down on, the analysis is consistently simplistic and conspiracy-theory driven. The rhetoric of most proponents of the "Tehran bourse is the death of the dollar" school reflect very little knowledge about the underlying fundamentals of commodities and commodities trading. Consider the following:

(1) The assumptions are uniformly that the two major trading centers for oil - NYMEX and IPE - will not be able to respond in any kind of way to a competitive threat to the markets which are their livelihood. This is a huge and mistaken assumption. These exchanges have been trading commodities for many years and have built up large coteries of traders who risk their own capital in trading commodities. They provide the liquidity that makes the markets function. Anyone who thinks that a start-up exchange in Tehran of all places will be able to attract sufficient trading liquidity to match the NYMEX and/or the IPE is just totally ignorant of the basics of commodity trading.

(2) The pricing of crude in euros may well lead to a increased demand at the margin for euros, but the euros received in payment for oil will still have to be invested somewhere. And, as compared to dollar-denominated investments, there are still simply few opportunities for investing in euro-denominated instruments. Simply put, if an oil producer takes payment for his crude in euros, he has to put those euros to work somewhere, or let them sit idle, earning nothing (even Muslims don't like to do that). There are orders of magnitude more places to invest in dollar-denominated instruments than any other. Yes, the number of euro denominated instruments are growing, but the US dollar is still the leading reserve currency, despite all the gloom and doom of the last 5 years, when this talk started. Consequently, the oil producer that took euros in payment is likely to have to switch to dollars in order to put his oil sale proceeds to work.

(3) Make no mistake about it, oil is a commodity and like all commodities, the center of trading is going be the location(s) with the most liquidity and the most capital. Location matters, but only to the extent that modern communications and safe and dependable access to capital can contribute to successful trading. In this regard, Tehran is simply not in the running. Some will counter that Tehran will access to plenty of capital. But note that the key is not solely access, the key is safe and dependable access, which certainly cannot be claimed for Tehran.

There are other reasons, but these three are enough.

If Iran can become a solid member of the international community, without threatening to wipe this or that country off the map, and treat all citizens humanely, and can attract a viable trading coterie with sufficient safe access to capital, then indeed an Iranian bourse could become a success. How likely are those conditions to be seen in Tehran with the mullahs in charge?
 

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Great post oldreliable67. I was just about to comment on the euro situation, but you have done a far better job than I could have. Seems to me that if the oil producing countries want to hitch their financial wagons to Europe, it can only be good for us in the long run. They will end up hating Europe even more than they hate us.
 

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Touchmaster said:
What has that got to do with a Euro trading oil bourse?


The problem with conspiracy theories, is that selected facts and inuendos are selectively chosen, then put together to create a picture. It doesn't matter where Iran puts it's money. As long as they are pushing to develop nuclear power (and beyond) they will be public enemy number one for Europe and America. Since their technology would only allow for European targets through launch, there is no wonder that the EU is trying to be all over this. I dare say that if America was the only country threatened, that Europe would be condemning American intervention into a "soveriegn" nation and trying to dictate what they can and can't do. This story never ends.
 

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Is it just me? It seems as though Son-Of-Canuck is alive and well and posting incognito in this thread lol ;)

Tash
 

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Tashah said:
Is it just me? It seems as though Son-Of-Canuck is alive and well and posting incognito in this thread lol ;)

Tash

My thoughts exactly.
 

Touchmaster

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WHo is Son OF canuck? and these are not conspiracy theories, it is well known that although an oil bourse in Iran would not alone be a great threat to the dollars held as currency reserves, any trend towards Euros could snowball and end up as a threat to the US economy and must therefore be nipped in the bud.
I still fail to see how Iran having a few nuclear weapons is going to cause a problem to any country with an unequivocally far advanced nuclear armament, i.e. France/UK, US or Israel?
 

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Touchmaster said:
WHo is Son OF canuck? and these are not conspiracy theories, it is well known that although an oil bourse in Iran would not alone be a great threat to the dollars held as currency reserves, any trend towards Euros could snowball and end up as a threat to the US economy and must therefore be nipped in the bud.
I still fail to see how Iran having a few nuclear weapons is going to cause a problem to any country with an unequivocally far advanced nuclear armament, i.e. France/UK, US or Israel?

I've posted this in another thread.....

I just cannot believe how people are still so ignorant of Radical Islam. It's almost as if it is by design by refusing to acknowledge the threat. People's need to hang on to outdated conventions make this proposition of false security ludicrous. When dealing with a culture in which only faith and family matter to our enemies, we insist on making war on governments and negotiating with political organizations that are no more than mobs with diplomatic representation. By focusing on the Government of Iran as the threat, we are punching thin air. The threat Iran poses is not as a government. It is their allegiance to "martyrdom." A nuclear explosion inside Israel, America, or in a European country (since he threatened all western countries that support the "Zionists") will not come from the Iranian government. It will not come through launch. It would be delivered in a small package through shipment of plane, truck, or suitcase by a terrorist or "soldier for Allah." Iran would never claim it and all we would be able to do is use our intel to guess where it came from and think back to a time when we could have prevented Iran from having nukes in the first place.

Like I stated to you in another thread, pro-activity, the ability to acknowledge future threats, and the will to act is what we have on our side when attempting to prevent a greater conflict.
 

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(since he threatened all western countries that support the "Zionists")

when was this explicit threat of attack?

and i find your racist depiction of 'those crazy iranians' quite offensive.

pinpoint when iran has been physically aggressive to another country please?
 

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Touchmaster said:
(since he threatened all western countries that support the "Zionists")

when was this explicit threat of attack?

and i find your racist depiction of 'those crazy iranians' quite offensive.

pinpoint when iran has been physically aggressive to another country please?

Have you been in a cave? Look it up yourself.

This is from the Asia times.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EH12Ak04.html

Racist depiction? Crazy Iranians? Those were my words? You're laughable. I refer to the Iranian government and the powerful Mullahs. The conservative faction of Iran's politics do not agree with their President's declarations. 70 percent of Iran is under the age of thirty years old and they are discenchanted with their leadership and the carry over brutalization of Islam from Khomeini's reign. Tell me again how I'm racist? It would appear that you are more than prepared to dismiss securities and safety for the sake of being "politically correct." Racist depiction? :roll: I get the impression that identifying Islamic Radicals to the Islamic religion as being "offensive" to you.

AGAIN.....The threat Iran poses is not as a government. It is their allegiance to Islamic "martyrdom." But, according to your leanings, as long as the terrorists continue their work without the banner of Iran over them...Iran is exonerated. What kind of a threat did Afghanistan hold over the U.S.? We are far more powerful. Yet, they seemed to have caused enough damage. I would think that one nuclear bomb detonating on western soil would cause a little damage too. Again, you simply do not understand the true nature of Radical Islam. Their reward is not worldy. It is in the after life, therefore, their personal destruction does not matter to them.
 
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Touchmaster said:
pinpoint when iran has been physically aggressive to another country please?
Iranian Pasdaran soldiers in Lebanon and Iranian supported Hizb'allah agents in Lebanon have been aggressive towards Israel via terrorism.
 

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How is this for crazy. During the Iran/Iraq war the Iranian clerics gave plastic keys to children, or very young males, and had them attack Iraqi troops. They didn't have enough guns so some of them attacked with wooden fake guns. The key was for their entry into heaven.
 

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Touchmaster said:
pinpoint when iran has been physically aggressive to another country please?


"The only change that did occur in Iranian support of terrorism in recent years has essentially been a tactical one. Behind the scenes, Iran took steps to adjust its terrorist policy to the circumstances in the international arena—which is less tolerant of this type of activity—making sure its own actions could not be perceived as international terrorism. Iran replaced the direct involvement of Iranian agents in terrorist acts with that of proxy organizations—the most prominent being Hizballah, a central player in Iran’s terror strategy outside the Middle East as well. Iran also makes use of local terrorist units, (for example in Turkey and Azerbaijan), which it trains and sometimes even commissions to carry out terrorist acts against common enemies."
http://www.ict.org.il/articles/artic...?articleid=362

In spite of its undercover nature, Iran’s worldwide involvement in international terrorism cannot always be concealed. Occasionally, events come to light that are proof of Iranian government's involvement in terrorist activities. For instance, the March 1996 discovery, in Belgium, of a specially-built Howitzer canon sent by ship from Iran to Germany to be used in a terrorist attack; or the involvement of the highest Iranian officials in the assassination of Kurdish leaders in Germany, the so-called “Mikonos Affair”.

The Islamic regime’s determination to continue supporting terrorism, in conflict with normal international behavior, has forced the Iranian Foreign Ministry to strive, under extreme international pressure, to offset the damage caused by this policy to Tehran’s economic and political ties. Iran does not deny its adherence to Khomeini’s "Islamic revolutionary ideology”, which supports all radical Islamic movements worldwide, but stresses that Iranian assistance is merely cultural, moral and humanitarian in nature.

http://mehr.org/iran_terrorism.htm

"After a bombing killed 19 U.S. airmen at a barracks in Saudi Arabia in 1996, the Clinton administration struck back by unmasking Iranian intelligence officers around the world, significantly disrupting Iranian-backed terrorism, according to a high-level U.S. official and a former top official who was serving at the time of the operation."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...ire-usat_x.htm


Keep focusing on an Iranian Army to be physically aggressive to another country for your definitions of what a threat is.:roll:
 

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UtahBill said:
How is this for crazy. During the Iran/Iraq war the Iranian clerics gave plastic keys to children, or very young males, and had them attack Iraqi troops. They didn't have enough guns so some of them attacked with wooden fake guns. The key was for their entry into heaven.

Try not to introduce such things. 'Touchmaster' might "find your racist depiction of 'those crazy iranians' quite offensive."
 

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Touchmaster said:
any trend towards Euros could snowball and end up as a threat to the US economy and must therefore be nipped in the bud.

Ridiculous. You have cause and effect confused. The US economy is not strong because the dollar is the world's preferred reserve currency. Rather, the dollar is the world's preferred reserve currency because of the strength of our economy, our legal environment (which provides for redress in commercial disputes), the extent of our participation in globalization (which means that we have trading partners around the world), the strength and safety of our financial markets (which provides investment opportunities for investors world-wide), and our military pre-eminince (which guards all of the above). There is an old maxim in the currency markets: strong economy, strong currency. Not the other way round. The dollar doesn't make all those things happen; all those things make the dollar happen.

If and when a rival exchange begins to trade crude denominated in euros, here is the first thing that will happen: various trading houses will arbitrage the dollar/euro using crude in dollars at the NYMEX and/or IPE versus crude in euros in Tehran. Roughly, and simplified, here is how it will happen: when crude is cheap in euro terms, it will be bought and crude in dollars simultaneously sold. When the market returns to equilibrium (that is, crude is the same price in both dollars and euros), the trade will be reversed. Conversely, if and when crude trades expensive in euro terms, crude in euros will be sold and crude in dollars (simultaneously) bought. Like before, when crude in euros is again equal to crude in dollars, the trade is reversed, earning the arbitraguer a risk-free profit. There is more involved, of course, but thats the basics. If you don't understand the process, look up 'the law of one price'.

On a longer term basis, there simply isn't any way that a trend to pricing oil in euros on a Tehran bourse (or anywhere else, for that matter) would be a threat to the US economy. You refer to it now as a "trend", instead of alluding to such as an apocalyptic event as in your previous posts. If there were to be such a trend, markets and nations would adapt. The single most important hallmark of the world's financial system today is its ability to move funds, adjust currency prices and adapt to changing expectations.

Could pricing crude in euros change the dollar/euro exchange rate over time? Of course. But with rapidity and devestating effect on the US economy? Not hardly.
 

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oldreliable67 said:
Ridiculous. You have cause and effect confused. The US economy is not strong because the dollar is the world's preferred reserve currency. Rather, the dollar is the world's preferred reserve currency because of the strength of our economy, our legal environment (which provides for redress in commercial disputes), the extent of our participation in globalization (which means that we have trading partners around the world), the strength and safety of our financial markets (which provides investment opportunities for investors world-wide), and our military pre-eminince (which guards all of the above). There is an old maxim in the currency markets: strong economy, strong currency. Not the other way round. The dollar doesn't make all those things happen; all those things make the dollar happen.

If and when a rival exchange begins to trade crude denominated in euros, here is the first thing that will happen: various trading houses will arbitrage the dollar/euro using crude in dollars at the NYMEX and/or IPE versus crude in euros in Tehran. Roughly, and simplified, here is how it will happen: when crude is cheap in euro terms, it will be bought and crude in dollars simultaneously sold. When the market returns to equilibrium (that is, crude is the same price in both dollars and euros), the trade will be reversed. Conversely, if and when crude trades expensive in euro terms, crude in euros will be sold and crude in dollars (simultaneously) bought. Like before, when crude in euros is again equal to crude in dollars, the trade is reversed, earning the arbitraguer a risk-free profit. There is more involved, of course, but thats the basics. If you don't understand the process, look up 'the law of one price'.

On a longer term basis, there simply isn't any way that a trend to pricing oil in euros on a Tehran bourse (or anywhere else, for that matter) would be a threat to the US economy. You refer to it now as a "trend", instead of alluding to such as an apocalyptic event as in your previous posts. If there were to be such a trend, markets and nations would adapt. The single most important hallmark of the world's financial system today is its ability to move funds, adjust currency prices and adapt to changing expectations.

Could pricing crude in euros change the dollar/euro exchange rate over time? Of course. But with rapidity and devestating effect on the US economy? Not hardly.


Very well stated.
 

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eloquent, but wrong. for a start, the Euro is a stronger currency than the Dollar and has been for some time - and currency reserves held in Euros provide a diversification in case of dollar depreciation.. why do countries not have their currency reserves denominated in Euros? Because they need to buy oil, the most economically important of commodities, with dollars, or at least have done since the seventies and up to the present day. Control of the world's currency reserves has given successive US governments a literal 'licence to print money', and has allowed the economy to be kept afloat by producing more and more dollars which are sold abroad for more than their intrinsic value... if they could no longer do this then the deficit chickens would be coming home to roost pretty swiftly..
 

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Mickyjaystoned said:
The question you need to ask is whether Zionism is helping the Global populations working class or is Zionism infact creating a dramatic imbalance and underclass of poor, overworked, overstressed men and women.

You see when you answer this question you see that Zionism and the Jewish state are doing nothing for this world really.

Therefore i would have to conclude that i think Zionist backed U.S, British and Israeli media need to stop portreying Iran as the next Iraq, the media need to accept that George W Bush is NOT a holy crusader, and like wise the Iranian Prime Minister Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not the Devil Incarnate.

Infact the whole reason there is this malice towards Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is infact due to his remarks about the Zionist state that is Israel:

""If the killing of Jews in Europe is true and the Zionists are supported because of this excuse, why should the Palestinian nation pay the price?"

and calling the Jewish state a "tumour" that should be "wiped off the map".

These are fair comments IMO, the fact that Zionist bankers Fritz Thiessen and George W Bushs Grandfather helped fund the rise of Adolf Hitler and his Third Reich proves that Zionists use the plight of the Jewish people as a smokescreen to immediately condemn any opponent as Anti Semitic and a "Threat".

I believe that ZIonism is a cancer on this planet, and needs to be tackled, since there is no real democracy in my zionist run western dictatorship the only opposition to this injustice comes in the form of the Iranian president.

However i also believe no country should be continuing with Nuclear plant building, after the devastating effects of the oil tank explosion in UK this week, we'd all be dead if that was a Nuclear plant, so i do not support Iran there, why shouldn't they be allowed the same things as Western countries though??



Did Move On feed you this class warfare crap? This has not one iota to do with class struggle.

This is Israel's equivalent of Russian ICBMs stationed in Cuba. The IRANIAN GOVERNMENT needs wiped off the map.

Bloodthirsty professional Muslim victims can whine like adolescents all they want about the plight of the Palestinian occupation. It is going to get them just as far as native Americans would get whining about European presence on this continent. It is not going to be changed through force. (Although I do believe minorities will run this country by 2050, and Palestinians will run every part of Israel that they are allowed to live in by that point too...Both of these are based on the last decade of population statistics)

Even Russia is condemning Iran's president's psychotic rants-and Russia is their chief ally-yet you think they are perfectly reasonable. That says a lot more about you than it does about Zionism. Give me a break.

Newsflash: Defending terrorists and siding against America's interests at every turn DOESN'T make you liberals look deep and complicated. It makes you look clueless and fanatical. :roll: I really wish you guys would grasp that.
 

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What it comes down to is the fact that some countries seek nuclear capabilities for the sole purpose of creating a nuclear weapon. This is very dangerous when the country is unstable and prone to radical beliefs.

If we/anybody sit back and let countries with the propensity (sp?) to use extreme violence to get what they want develop nuclear weapons, we are destined to allow another Hitler type regiem start WW III.
 

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I have an idea...How about we nuke Iran, Israel and Palestine. maybe, just maybe they could find peace then.
 

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Touchmaster said:
the Euro is a stronger currency than the Dollar and has been for some time - and currency reserves held in Euros provide a diversification in case of dollar depreciation..

Now that you have moved away from the conspiracy theory aspects of the crude-priced-in-euros question and more into the real world, there are a couple of points that we can agree on. First, the euro does provide diversification for portfolios; unfortunately, as I mentioned above, there are many, many more investment opportunities denominated in dollars than euros. Nonetheless, as time goes by there will be an increasing number of investments denominated in euros.

I must disagree to some extent with your comment about the euro being stronger than the dollar "for some time". It depends on the time interval under examination. There have been time periods in which the euro has languished relative to the dollar and vice-versa. In general, during times of upheaval and stress, you find the dollar appreciates due to its attractiveness as a safe-haven currency. A major factor in currency relative valuations (especially in the short term) is interest rates. (Countries with higher interest rates offer higher holding period returns, all else being equal.) During the part of the previous interest rate cycle in which the Fed was aggressively lowering rates, the dollar mostly traded lower relative to other higher-rate currencies. More recently, as the Fed has been raising rates, the dollar in general tended to move higher. Now, with the Fed seemingly coming close to an end of the higher rate cycle (at least for now) and with the ECB talking about raising rates, the dollar has once again been generally softer.

graphs_30399_image003.gif


Touchmaster said:
why do countries not have their currency reserves denominated in Euros? Because they need to buy oil, the most economically important of commodities, with dollars, or at least have done since the seventies and up to the present day.

Like most generalizations, this one has enough of a grain of truth to be fairly widely accepted. It is true that oil importing countries maintain some reserves in dollars in order to accomodate payments for crude. But guess what? Non oil-importing countries maintain dollar reserves as well. Furthermore, the dollar has been the world's preferred reserve currency since it displaced the British pound in that role following WWII, long before oil imports assumed the importance that they have today. Show me a country that does not trade with the US and you might, emphasize might, be able to show me a country that does not maintain dollar reserves. But countries that do not trade with the US are few and far between.

Touchmaster said:
Control of the world's currency reserves has given successive US governments a literal 'licence to print money', and has allowed the economy to be kept afloat by producing more and more dollars which are sold abroad for more than their intrinsic value... if they could no longer do this then the deficit chickens would be coming home to roost pretty swiftly..

Control of the world's currency reserves? You're kidding, right? You slip in a couple of quite reasonable, non-conspiracy theory comments and then you come back to this laugher? In order to control the world's currency reserves, you would have to control the FX market (thats were reserves are bought and sold on a second-to-second basis) and the market for US Gov't debt (thats the market into which most currency reserves are invested). The currency market is the world's largest market in terms of currency flows, followed by the market for U.S. Government debt (Bills, Notes, and Bonds). Nobody, but nobody "controls" the world's currency reseves. Not the US gov't, not George Soros, not SAMA, not the Sultan of Brunei, nobody.

But thankfully, there is a reasonable part to your statement, and that is, "if they could no longer do this then the deficit chickens would be coming home to roost pretty swiftly." But in order to make this statement reasonable, you gotta make "do this" refer to the continued willingness of our trading partners and investors worldwide to accept dollars in exchange for goods and services and seek out dollar denominated securities for investment purposes.

As anyone who has not been living in cave is aware, the US has been running increasing trade and budget deficits. And as Alan Greenspan has warned, there is a limit to this. While we are not at those limits yet, at least according to most popular benchmarks, we cannot continue to increase these deficits ad inifinitum. As Greenspan observed, a continued lack of fiscal discipline can cause us problems somewhere down the road. We have room and we have time, but we have neither in infinite quantities.

IMO, the fiscal situation today is very reminiscent of 1968, when LBJ decided that the US could have guns and butter. That is, the Fed gov't could have both a huge welfare program ("The Great Society") and finance the Vietnam war without a tax increase. Consequently, deficits went through the roof. We paid for it in the '70s with first with accelerating inflation and economic contraction to go on the inflation wagon. (Thats a grossly simplified overview, but it hits most of the high points.) As such, the lack of fiscal discipline is a chief disappointment with the Bush administration.

On balance, Touchmaster, you've gotten at least somewhat away from the conspiracy theory stuff, and IMO, thats a good thing. We've gotten way off topic with this; probably should take it the Econ forum.
 
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Newsflash: Defending terrorists and siding against America's interests at every turn DOESN'T make you liberals look deep and complicated. It makes you look clueless and fanatical. I really wish you guys would grasp that.

Pricks like you really are way too lost to be brought back.

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Vugar personal attacks like this are not tolerated at Debate Politics. Consider this an initial warning. The next violation will incur consequences.

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I am not a liberal and have no faith in any political party whatsoever, every political party in my country is moving towards centralisation, a process that began in 1930's europe before the succesion of a highly fascist political party in Germany.

For twenty years conspiracy theorists and generally open minded folks have prophecised that the state of Israel will exert massive influence over American and British Foreign policy, creating a similar situation to 1930's germany except with the oppressed being the poor not a particular religious group, theorists have also prophecised a centralisation of power for europe, from real political diversity before the war, to modernisation politics from the 70's ending in every european countries affairs being run from Brussels, already we have a large percentage of policy coming from Brussels, designed to align us with the European Union and eventually the U.N.

And for ten years conspiracy theorists have talked about an obvious war in the east in order to appease dramatically high energy needs in the west, once this war in Iraq has ended with a U.N peacekeeping force obtaining permanent residence in the country, protecting American Oil reserves etc. there will be a war set up between China and the States, over the oil of Iran, which exports ariound 25% to China at the moment, what better way for zionism to avoid challege from China than to launch an attack on Iran forcing American participation and enforcing global rule, for the AMericans who will in time be replaced in all middle eastern countries by UN peacekeeping forces.

Your politics has gone to far now, things are starting to come true, ID cards, NSA spying, BIG BROTHER state, Outlawing of firearms etc.

Politics in the last half of the 20th century has been conducted purely by Business for Business and the modernists goal of Globalisation, Globalisation demands the neutralisation of Iran, and the exploitation of the dependant population.

Class warfare is very real, if you don't believe me look at your own country and the HUUUGE levels of unemployment in predominantly Black and Hispanic areas, look at the lack of response to Hurricane Katrina for the same communities and you will start to see the truth;

Your government does not give a **** about the lower class that it has created, it does not give a **** about the majority of people who voted it into power, the government cares about it's own longevity and the progress of Business on a global level.

Do you really think Bush cares about the American people when he makes his policies, if yes then why would he have the NSA spy on them, why woulod he lock up thousands of anti war protesters and why would he go to war with Iraq.

Financial gain=Power=control

To exert total influence on the people Bush needs plenty money, thats why his campaign costs run into the Billions, and his backers get to rebuild nations he destroys, and set up energy plants/pipelines in the same countries.
 
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Mickyjaystoned said:
Pricks like you really are way too lost to be brought back.

Nice knowing you, mickey.:2wave:
 

BillyBadAss

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cherokee said:
I have an idea...How about we nuke Iran, Israel and Palestine. maybe, just maybe they could find peace then.

Great idea cherokee, they can't learn how to get along and are always sucking us into their problems, nuke em all. At least, I feel that way sometimes.
 
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