Islamists now in Germany

[Andalublue]

So you read Mein Kampf? And you discovered this there? Do you still have your copy handy??

I'll say goodnight. I don't believe you're sober.

I have read Mein Kampf. And Das Kapital. And Leviathan. And The Republic.

I suspect you have read none of the above but are on stronger liquor. I'll bid you an equally fond good evening.

 

[MSgt]

Interesting. And where did the 9/11 plotters learn to fly? Where was that breeding ground you were talking about, Bub?

No...."bub" is another user. But anyway...

Where they learned to fly is beside the point. You may as well ask another pointless question about where they landed those planes. Where they plotted and planned terrorist activity, with the security of their environment, is the point. The London bombings? Spain? The latest plot to "kill a Swede?" So many others?

Europe has a storm brewing and it was brewing long before America's 9/11. 9/11 occurred on our door step. Terrorists got through because "we" never assumed that Europe's problems with terrorists could reach us. The home grown occasional nut or suicidal cult was the height of our worries. But much has changed as to our security since 9/11. This is why the last batch of wannabes got caught bording planes to America from Europe. Recently, we have a the exception to the rule creep up in America, but this is largely because once again Europe's problems are leekeing out. It most certainly is Europe that will have to deal with the Middle Eastern fall out of religious fanaticism. America has the benefit of having an ocean of separation between it and the Middle East. Generally, it is the better educated or wealthier Muslim that can afford to immigrate. But Europe? Cartoons and a film sparking riots and demonstrations? Laws denying religious garb in schools? A riot over unemployment by Muslim youth where fanatics attempted to spark a greater movement? With so many Muslim ghettos and political friction between Muslims and host European nations, these pockets of fanaticism will grow. Hence, the "breeding ground."

I didn't catch your point.

 

[kaya'08]

Been to Germany. Berlin & Hamburg for a football match.....a multicultural ghetto with no sense of national identity, just like London.

 

[Andalublue]

I didn't catch your point.

No, quite clearly. I guess the point is that people in glass houses shouldn't do target practice. You want to claim that religious extremism is a particularly European problem? Go right ahead. But when the next terrorist bomb explodes in the US, whether it's planted by an Islamist, a fanatical Christian anti-abortionist or a white supremacist McVeigh-type crazy, you can bet that no one on this side of the Atlantic will be indulging in the same sick, schadenfreude that you seem to be taking such pleasure from.

 

[Grant]

"But when the next terrorist bomb explodes in the US, whether it's planted by a Islamist, a fanatical Christian anti-abortionist or a white supremacist McVeigh-type crazy, you can bet that no one on this side of the Atlantic will be indulging in the same sick, schadenfreude that you seem to be taking such pleasure from".

More outrageous and blatant lies from a Eurolefty.

On BBC’s Question Time, televised within 48 hours of the destruction of the World Trade Center where almost 3,000 innocent people died, the BBC stocked an audience with left wing anti Americans and invited Phil Lader, the former US ambassador to Britain, to appear at very short notice.

When the the Ambassador arrived, and while representing a nation in mourning, he was shouted down while trying to speak and reduced near to tears by an audience convinced the US was responsible for those mass murders. Included in the audience of Lefties were many Muslims, who also screamed and shouted their hate at the United States. One lone person stood up to defend the Ambassador and was shouted down and booed by the BBC audience.

This is your BBC, Mate, and the voice of Britain today. Whatever happens to you now has been of your own making.

 

[Degreez]

More outrageous and blatant lies from a Eurolefty.

On BBC’s Question Time, televised within 48 hours of the destruction of the World Trade Center where almost 3,000 innocent people died, the BBC stocked an audience with left wing anti Americans and invited Phil Lader, the former US ambassador to Britain, to appear at very short notice.

When the the Ambassador arrived, and while representing a nation in mourning, he was shouted down while trying to speak and reduced near to tears by an audience convinced the US was responsible for those mass murders. Included in the audience of Lefties were many Muslims, who also screamed and shouted their hate at the United States. One lone person stood up to defend the Ambassador and was shouted down and booed by the BBC audience.

This is your BBC, Mate, and the voice of Britain today. Whatever happens to you now has been of your own making.

So those people in the TV audience work for the BBC? Or do you just love the intellectual dishonesty so much that beguile is the equivalent of truth to you?

 

[Orion]

I've never been to Germany but I've lived with Germans more than once and we've gotten into big political discussions about their country before. Germany's number one problem is the lack of integration among the Turkish population. The German government has a loose immigration policy but is completely myopic when it comes to inciting Turks to move out of their community ghettos and try to integrate into German society.

Naturally, part of the culture clash will be religious. I've heard that the Turks are to Germany what blacks are to the U.S., in terms of the disenfranchised minority and the pop culture surrounding it. A disproportionate number of young Turks end up in gangs or lower end work. The problem really isn't immigration because Germany will need that to supplement its aging population; the issue is fostering programs for proper integration.

Western nations try to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to immigration policy. You can't advertise your nation the world over, bring in thousands of people yearly, and just expect them to figure it out or not anticipate culture clashes. The cultural rift is only going to breed animosity and radical Muslims are going to take advantage of that.

 

[Grant]

So those people in the TV audience work for the BBC? Or do you just love the intellectual dishonesty so much that beguile is the equivalent of truth to you?

Did i say the audience worked for the BBC?

Where did you see that?

I know it's rude to call the Euroefties ignorant liars so I won't say it, but that's their reputation.

 

[Grant]

Western nations try to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to immigration policy. You can't advertise your nation the world over, bring in thousands of people yearly, and just expect them to figure it out or not anticipate culture clashes. The cultural rift is only going to breed animosity and radical Muslims are going to take advantage of that.

There was a UN study done quite some time ago that asked people of different countries which they though was the best. The result was that all countries, with the exception of two (Italy and an African country whose name I forget) felt their own country was the best.

So it should not have been surprising that the Dutch, Germans, Swedes et al, felt that anyone arriving from a poor country would not want to a part of wonderful Holland , Germany, Sweden , etc. And of course they felt the only real differences between people was the colour of their skin and, God knows, these were Liberal people who, unlike those awful Americans, would never think of being prejudice against another human being for their skin colour.

But of course the Muslims didn't feel inferior to the Swedes at all , and if fact felt quite superior. And why shouldn't they? The UN study could have verified all of that. Practitioners of Islam might be different but if they are non-violent than they are certainly no worse, and no better, that their hosts.

But still this idea persists that they should 'integrate'. Why? What benefit does it offer Muslims? They're quite satisfied with their culture and religion and don't want to be German. Nor would any sensible person I should add.

So this idea that we can all get along in one confined space , speak the local language, eat spicy sausage, wear wooden clogs on our feet and put flavourless sauces on our food was a silly dream. A mistake of the first order.

So what to do now?

Will the hosts tell the guests, who are now mostly citizens by the way, that they have to drop their old ways? Or will the guests, who are rising in population and seemingly prepared to fight for their religion to the death, be as equally committed to this multicultural dream?

Like Bin Laden, I'd follow the strong horse.

 

[MSgt]

....... the issue is fostering programs for proper integration.

This is Europe wide.

 

[MSgt]

No, quite clearly. I guess the point is that people in glass houses shouldn't do target practice. You want to claim that religious extremism is a particularly European problem?

Yes..."Particularly." There is no wave of pocket religious ghettos in America where people blend in and plot and plan terror locally or internaitonally. Any religious cults that rise in America usually end in suicide....not mass murder. The individual nuts (McVeigh, Unibomber, Son of Sam, etc.) are just that, individuals. America will have its exceptions pop up, but they will be unsuccessful and far from some larger civilizational anger brewing from city to city and from state to state. Can you state as much for Europe's problems?

Go right ahead. But when the next terrorist bomb explodes in the US, whether it's planted by an Islamist, a fanatical Christian anti-abortionist or a white supremacist McVeigh-type crazy, you can bet that no one on this side of the Atlantic will be indulging in the same sick, schadenfreude that you seem to be taking such pleasure from.

It is clear that you continue to side step the point entirely. The little Timmy McVeigh's or extreme few abortion clinic aggressors (5 or so in the last twenty years) are of no consenquence when compared to a religious brewing of rage and violence throughout Europe. Your problems are going to intensify and this current attitude that it can be ignored away - internally and abroad - is old hat for Europe. Boasting contempt for American activity will not convince Islam's most extreme that you are on their side and therefore safe from what is obviously knocking on your doors.

And you are correct. I do find it some what satisfying (not so much pleasurable, because it means American blood in the end) that the same critical France/Germany controlling Europe that has waved its ass in America's face for decades and every chance it gets will once again eat what it refuses to see on their door step. Got that American Bat Signal ready to go?

By the way, Europeans were quite enthused to declare 9/11 our fault. It was almost a celebration for many circles in your "intellectual" region. It is inevitable that after stopping and preventing dozens to hundreds of terrorist attacks that they will eventually get another punch in. But I expect the same European "intellectual" nonsense we all should be used to by now. The politics of De Gaul never died. It merely festered in European universities and governments.

 

[Andalublue]

And you are correct. I do find it some what satisfying (not so much pleasurable, because it means American blood in the end) that the same critical France/Germany controlling Europe that has waved its ass in America's face for decades and every chance it gets will once again eat what it refuses to see on their door step.

You clearly know nothing about Europe or Europeans. How long have you lived amongst our people? When was that?

I am grateful at least that you have the cojones to admit your satisfaction at the suffering of European victims of terrorism. I dare say if I were to dance on the graves of the victims of 9/11 or, God forbid, US soldiers in Iraq or Afghanistan, I would be fairly rapidly (and justifiably) jumped on by a hundred DP posters and probably banned.

I don't do that. I grieve for them, all of them.

I'm deeply saddened at your attitude and hatred.

 

[Grant]

"By the way, Europeans were quite enthused to declare 9/11 our fault".

Two days after 9/11, with the country still in mourning, they were at it. And they still are today.

"It was almost a celebration for many circles in your "intellectual" region. It is inevitable that after stopping and preventing dozens to hundreds of terrorist attacks that they will eventually get another punch in. But I expect the same European "intellectual" nonsense we all should be used to by now. The politics of De Gaul never died. It merely festered in European universities and governments".

And it spilled over into the streets many times.

During the Cold War Communist leaders in Europe boasted that the could get 100,000 people marching against the Americans in any major Western European city with just one weeks notice.

This is the stuff these people were raised on, and the effects of their brainwashing is still evident today.

 

[The_Penguin]

"By the way, Europeans were quite enthused to declare 9/11 our fault".

Two days after 9/11, with the country still in mourning, they were at it. And they still are today.

"It was almost a celebration for many circles in your "intellectual" region. It is inevitable that after stopping and preventing dozens to hundreds of terrorist attacks that they will eventually get another punch in. But I expect the same European "intellectual" nonsense we all should be used to by now. The politics of De Gaul never died. It merely festered in European universities and governments".

And it spilled over into the streets many times.

During the Cold War Communist leaders in Europe boasted that the could get 100,000 people marching against the Americans in any major Western European city with just one weeks notice.

This is the stuff these people were raised on, and the effects of their brainwashing is still evident today.

Oh no, it's not just mere arguments of just how "socially unfair" America's economy/government is. I've lived in Germany, two instances that stood out for me when it came to anti-Americanism:

* Two girls sitting on a bus talking about Americans being neanderthals for saying "Yeh" instead of "Yes". I was in Bavaria. The locals there say "Nei" as opposed to "Nein". That's just one of many little quirks and they happen all over Germany to one degree or another. The same goes for every single European nation and their language.
* I was in a bar with some of my friends. We were having beers and just talking about general things (making fun of a professor that's a particularly dishonest individual, sympathizing with those working under that professor, etc.) The topic of politics and America came up. Someone else went on a rant and a half that pretty much all Americans are uneducated morons incapable of rational thought. He backtracked a little saying that only those that live outside of the cities. In 5 minutes I had paid my bill and was leaving the bar.

I could go on and on and on about the ridicule of American companies, American culture and American presence around the globe.

Funny thing. When someone drove by in Regensburg in a Dodge Viper and Dodge truck on the street, everybody turned heads .

"Das is einen fatter* Auto!"

*Fat - at one point, don't know about now, meant "cool" among kids.

 

[Grant]

Oh no, it's not just mere arguments of just how "socially unfair" America's economy/government is. I've lived in Germany, two instances that stood out for me when it came to anti-Americanism:

* Two girls sitting on a bus talking about Americans being neanderthals for saying "Yeh" instead of "Yes". I was in Bavaria. The locals there say "Nei" as opposed to "Nein". That's just one of many little quirks and they happen all over Germany to one degree or another. The same goes for every single European nation and their language.
* I was in a bar with some of my friends. We were having beers and just talking about general things (making fun of a professor that's a particularly dishonest individual, sympathizing with those working under that professor, etc.) The topic of politics and America came up. Someone else went on a rant and a half that pretty much all Americans are uneducated morons incapable of rational thought. He backtracked a little saying that only those that live outside of the cities. In 5 minutes I had paid my bill and was leaving the bar.

I could go on and on and on about the ridicule of American companies, American culture and American presence around the globe.

Funny thing. When someone drove by in Regensburg in a Dodge Viper and Dodge truck on the street, everybody turned heads .

"Das is einen fatter* Auto!"

*Fat - at one point, don't know about now, meant "cool" among kids.

I've heard the same insults applied to Americans in my trips to Europe also, The Penguin. And when they learn I'm Canadian they really feel free to continue their rants similar to the ones you mentioned, as though Canadians are as sophisticated as the Europeans and keen to rubbish Americans.

There have been times also I've pretended to be American just to see what it's like and it almost became violent.

I've just become weary of Europe and Europeans. There are many fine people, of course, but they can never quite compensate for the general ignorance of the rest of them. It's too much like the American South must have been 100 years ago.

 

[MSgt]

You clearly know nothing about Europe or Europeans. How long have you lived amongst our people? When was that?

You clearly are in denial of your own region. But you are in Spain. You are far removed from the Europe I speak of. Your country cheered for dictators during World War II. Your country is still coming to terms that you are a part of a wider region. Muslim ghettos are a European affair. Immigration problems plaguing an extremly consistent high unemployment rate is a European affair. German youth seeking to blame Muslim Turks for all that is wrong in their country is a European affair. Muslim riots (masked as mere youth on a rampage) is a European affair. Murderous campaigns against artists, authors, and film makers is a European affair. Legal conflicts (German and French courts) and prescription towards religion is a European affair. Terrorist Plotters throughout Europe find comfort within Islamic misery. And there is a lot of that across Europe. And this is why Europe has had a considerably high record for hosting terrorist plotters well before 9/11.

There appears to be a side of Europe you refuse to see as you hasten a Willy Wonka or vinyard description. And by the way....one doesn't have to go to the moon to know that breathing is going to be a problem. Besides that, I have been to Europe (even your Spain). None of that matters.

I dare say if I were to dance on the graves of the victims of 9/11....

Read again my satisfaction. Your government's inability to recognize the threats encourages European death. And after Europeans have exhausted themselves criticizing America's efforts to deal with the wrecked and failing Middle East, they will have no one but their own governments to thank for the local terror violence and unrest that apathy built. In the end, France and Germany's "but we weren't in Iraq" will be pointless.

But, dance away. Your region is full of representation already. The first ones to blame America for 9/11 was Europeans. The first ones to accuse America of seeking World War III in the 80s was Europeans. The first ones to accuse Ameerica of illegalities in the 90s was Europeans (even though it was over their region). The first ones to always criticize America is Europeans.

Dance...dance...dance. Just don't be confused when America finally turns its back.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Moderator's Warning:

Everyone needs to stop the personal attacks, now.

 

[Glücksritter]

You clearly are in denial of your own region. But you are in Spain. You are far removed from the Europe I speak of. Your country cheered for dictators during World War II. Your country is still coming to terms that you are a part of a wider region. Muslim ghettos are a European affair. Immigration problems plaguing an extremly consistent high unemployment rate is a European affair. German youth seeking to blame Muslim Turks for all that is wrong in their country is a European affair. Muslim riots (masked as mere youth on a rampage) is a European affair. Murderous campaigns against artists, authors, and film makers is a European affair. Legal conflicts (German and French courts) and prescription towards religion is a European affair. Terrorist Plotters throughout Europe find comfort within Islamic misery. And there is a lot of that across Europe. And this is why Europe has had a considerably high record for hosting terrorist plotters well before 9/11.

You are mixing up two problems which are not identical either because you believed the same political correct **** of "poverty creates terrorism" crap or - more propable in your case, cause its your main occupation in this forum - to play your old violine of making Europe responsible for mistakes of the US.

By the way although the huge problems of ghettos filled to some extend with Turkish people not willing to integrate has nearly nothing to do with Al Quaida terrorism, it is really funny to hear these words from you. It is the US which fights with all its powers and all pressures to force Germany and other European nations to accept Turkey as an EU member in the full knowledge of the consequence that those ghettos you are complaining about will emerge by hundred times more if the US get its political will.

By the way I am quite sure that the US has some far more dangerous places than Hamburg-Altona or in Berlin Wedding or Neuköln.

However the Islamic terrorism as the reply of those who are poor, frustrated and without perspective is a myth. The typical international Islamic terrorist is well educated and an exponent of an ideology of superiority, instead of a poor frustrated young man without perspective.

 

[Glücksritter]

Yup, National Socialism was an exclusively Christian construct. Islamism at its most extreme incarnation is an ugly creed, but Nazi it ain't. You won't find ideas of pure blood, Aryan supremacy, lebensraum or manifest destiny within it. This doesn't mean that the ideas you do find are any more attractive. They are just different.

Associating Nazism and Islamism is just an intellectually weak position. You know everyone thinks Nazism is BAD, so associating Islamism with it automatically makes Islamism BAD too. I hate Islamism (the Islamism which oppresses, which hangs 15 year old gay boys, stones poor women with no other livelihood than prostitution, maims 13 year old girls to ensure they never experience sexual pleasure) but associating this with Nazism allows right-wingers to condemn it despite the fact that they agree with so many of its prohibitions.

Let's ask mbig, Grant, Apocalypse et al to unequivocally voice their support for gay marriage, racial integration, anti-discrimination, anti-hate-crime legislation, exclusively secular education. Go on, put your money where your mouth is.

I have read Mein Kampf. And Das Kapital. And Leviathan. And The Republic.

I suspect you have read none of the above but are on stronger liquor. I'll bid you an equally fond good evening.

In spite of your arrogant attitude, let me adress a few questions to you - for us normal users - overeducated intellectual who is so well hearted to teach us:

1. How is it possible that an agressive paganism was taught in the SS schools and that witnesses and former SS members testifeid that they were taught that "Jesus was the son of a Jewish whore (in German: "Dirne", something like prostitute or whore)" or that "the complete victory is achieved, when the churches are burnt to the ground"? Does not really appear exclusively Christian to me?

2. Turk peoples from the invaded SU were integrated into the Waffen-SS under the leadership of Prof. Mende an SS member in which combat units they fought their war against the godless Bolshevists in the name of Islam. Not very typical for a Christian mess, isn't it?

3. There was an Albanic SS unit consisting overwhelmingly of muslims. Not very typical.

4. How do you explain the agressive paganism of Alfred Rosenberg, one of the most influential NS ideologists as well as many other of the main characters of the regime?

 

[kaya'08]

By the way although the huge problems of ghettos filled to some extend with Turkish people not willing to integrate has nearly nothing to do with Al Quaida terrorism, it is really funny to hear these words from you. It is the US which fights with all its powers and all pressures to force Germany and other European nations to accept Turkey as an EU member in the full knowledge of the consequence that those ghettos you are complaining about will emerge by hundred times more if the US get its political will.

Let me tell you something about those "Turk people" you talk of.

In Europe, a major problem plagues many countries; integration of Turks, the isolation of Turks, the this the that, whereas in Britain, how comes we dont have these problems? How comes the Turkish and Turkish cypriots are fully fledged members of society? Where are the Turkish ghettos, the low Turkish literacy rates?

Glücksritter; your blaming the wrong people. Its the xenephobia of Germans (and we know how badly racist they are) and her governments complete incompetence to integrate Germany's minorities simply because it doesnt have the legal backup to do so, is the reason why you have Ghettos filled to the brim with "Turk people".

Now here comes the shocker.

Its your own fault, not the Americans.

The Balkans in total have a much larger Turkish presence and they are fantastically integrated, partly because of the cultural significance Turkey shares with the former Ottoman Balkans, partly because Southern European governments have done more to integrate them rather than dancing around the EU.

When Turkey had problems with her Polish in one of the Turkish islands after mass Polish immigration to Turkey during one of the World Wars, the Turkish government created a fully blown social programme to open Polish schools and centres to help the Polish adapt.
Now try and find a Pole in Polonyakoy that doesnt call himself a Turk, while retaining there Christian culture.

So apart from whining, what the hell does Merkel intend to do?

 

[MetalGear]

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Boo-ya.

 

[Glücksritter]

Let me tell you something about those "Turk people" you talk of.

In Europe, a major problem plagues many countries; integration of Turks, the isolation of Turks, the this the that, whereas in Britain, how comes we dont have these problems? How comes the Turkish and Turkish cypriots are fully fledged members of society? Where are the Turkish ghettos, the low Turkish literacy rates?

This must be really a bad joke. How many Turks live in Great Britain. I don't know whats the main groups of immigrants in Great Britain according to my impression from what I see there are living a lot of Pakistani and Indians. As I read there is a lot inner EU immigration of Poles. However how many million Turks do live in Great Britain to build up parallel societies?

Even within these few Turk ghettos with all the problems I seriously doubt that the crime rate is comparable to Glasgow.

Glücksritter; your blaming the wrong people. Its the xenephobia of Germans (and we know how badly racist they are) and her governments complete incompetence to integrate Germany's minorities simply because it doesnt have the legal backup to do so, is the reason why you have Ghettos filled to the brim with "Turk people".

This statement represents perfectly the attitude of the Turkish immigrants here.

It's the German states duty to solve their problem. If they are unwilling to learn German - the state will have to solve the problem.
The state has to provide jobs for them, the state has to ... the Germans has to ...

Now here comes the shocker.

Yes, here is the shocker for you the largest group of immigrants or former immigrants in Germany are Russians (oftentimes Russian with German roots), which problems exist with respect to integration? Nearly none! They learn German, they try to find jobs and they integrate.

There is a large Vietnamese community here in Berlin, which problems do occur? Nearly none!

There are lots of Polish people. There are summed up many EU-immigrants, there are Serbs, Indians, Ukrainians, Thai, Coreans, people from all over the world and the same problems do not occur. For some part you could argue because the minorities are simply too small in number, but as I wrote above the Russians don't cause the same kind of problems as some Turks do.

One of the cheapest excuses not to learn even the language of the country you live in I ever heard.

Its your own fault, not the Americans.

I did not claim that the status quo is the fault of the US, I simply wrote down as such

By the way although the huge problems of ghettos filled to some extend with Turkish people not willing to integrate has nearly nothing to do with Al Quaida terrorism, it is really funny to hear these words from you. It is the US which fights with all its powers and all pressures to force Germany and other European nations to accept Turkey as an EU member in the full knowledge of the consequence that those ghettos you are complaining about will emerge by hundred times more if the US get its political will.

Rather strange, that a person who accuses Germany to be responsible for 9/11 because of relatively moderate Turk ghettos (in fact you can as a German or other non Turk ethnic group walk through these districts without fear for your life - not to talk about the nonsense with the non existing relation to 9/11) whose own country tries to force the creation of new Turk ghettos in a larger scale.

The Balkans in total have a much larger Turkish presence and they are fantastically integrated, partly because of the cultural significance Turkey shares with the former Ottoman Balkans, partly because Southern European governments have done more to integrate them rather than dancing around the EU.

Pardon me, you want to declare the Balkan as an example of perfect integration? I take this as a good joke!

When Turkey had problems with her Polish in one of the Turkish islands after mass Polish immigration to Turkey during one of the World Wars, the Turkish government created a fully blown social programme to open Polish schools and centres to help the Polish adapt.
That worked out fine.

I read about impressive Turkish policy to integrate Kurds. Ripping of finger nails, forcing prisoners to walk over cullets first and salt afterwards, crushing the testicles and so on.

So apart from whining, what the hell does Merkel intend to do?

Instead of supressing the Turkkish minorities as Turkey does it with Armenians or Kurds?

There is everything provided concerning the infrastructure. There are German courses for free, there is extensive advertisement for that, there are schools, there are even special courses for immigrants (for free) to learn about Germany and the life here. There are enough examples of Turkish people here who were integrated.

What lacks is the willingness of some Turkish immigrants to use it. And there is the Turkish state which warns the Turkish immigrants to integrate them and instead stoking hate against the land the immigrants live in as Erdogan did in 2006 in Cologne.

Nevertheless these cases of a few Turkish districts are here dramatized with the intention to blame Germany for the terror on 9/11. Even the normal crime rate there cannot compete with many other metropoles or even some regions on the Balkan.

Mrs. Merkel will not ring at the doors of a few Kurds or Turks who are not willing to integrate, cause it's impossible.

 

[MetalGear]

This must be really a bad joke. How many Turks live in Great Britain. I don't know whats the main groups of immigrants in Great Britain according to my impression from what I see there are living a lot of Pakistani and Indians. As I read there is a lot inner EU immigration of Poles. However how many million Turks do live in Great Britain to build up parallel societies?

Even within these few Turk ghettos with all the problems I seriously doubt that the crime rate is comparable to Glasgow.

April fools, right?

500,000 Turks live in Great Britain, when was the last time you heard a British MP moaning about Turks and integration? Turks aside even, we have the highest numbers of Muslims who call themselves British compared to Muslims who can call themselves French or German.
Where are our Ghettos? None.

This statement represents perfectly the attitude of the Turkish immigrants here.

It's the German states duty to solve their problem. If they are unwilling to learn German - the state will have to solve the problem.
The state has to provide jobs for them, the state has to ... the Germans has to ...

Actually i have also vouched that both sides are at fault, however, being the o-so perfect German citizen that you are, only the immigrants are at fault.

Yes, here is the shocker for you the largest group of immigrants or former immigrants in Germany are Russians (oftentimes Russian with German roots), which problems exist with respect to integration? Nearly none! They learn German, they try to find jobs and they integrate.

....whereas in Eastern Europe, Russians are the ones they are having problems integrating. I have a Latvian friend who i keep in contact with regularly and many other Eastern European friends who say the same thing.

We are talking about a totally different demographic here, the Muslim Turks, not the CHRISTIAN Russians, who by nature will be easier to integrate.

Obviously it seems the Germans have been too busy with there Russians friends to bother addressing the Turkish problem. So how do we solve it? We push there EU admission away, as if that will solve anything. :roll:

There is a large Vietnamese community here in Berlin, which problems do occur? Nearly none!

There are lots of Polish people. There are summed up many EU-immigrants, there are Serbs, Indians, Ukrainians, Thai, Coreans, people from all over the world and the same problems do not occur. For some part you could argue because the minorities are simply too small in number, but as I wrote above the Russians don't cause the same kind of problems as some Turks do.

Yes, actually you are pointing out a very good point; obviously the Christian Democrats cant waste there time with the Muslim minority. Well know its not just Turks that are the problem. How about the Arabs, Kurds?

One of the cheapest excuses not to learn even the language of the country you live in I ever heard.

Quote where i said they shouldnt learn German. Making it up now, arent we?

I did not claim that the status quo is the fault of the US, I simply wrote down as such

:rofl
So, its not there fault, you just wrote down that it is? Hm ok.

Rather strange, that a person who accuses Germany to be responsible for 9/11 because of relatively moderate Turk ghettos (in fact you can as a German or other non Turk ethnic group walk through these districts without fear for your life - not to talk about the nonsense with the non existing relation to 9/11) whose own country tries to force the creation of new Turk ghettos in a larger scale.

You quoted yourself what are you referring to?

Pardon me, you want to declare the Balkan as an example of perfect integration? I take this as a good joke!

Please, refute me.

I read about impressive Turkish policy to integrate Kurds. Ripping of finger nails, forcing prisoners to walk over cullets first and salt afterwards, crushing the testicles and so on.

I read about the impressive German policy of integrating Jews. Gassing them, starving them, forcing them to eat dog **** and dig there own graves.....

FALSE propaganda works both ways.

Did you convieniently not hear of the Kurdish initiative? Of course not, it wouldnt suit you.

Instead of supressing the Turkkish minorities as Turkey does it with Armenians or Kurds?

This isnt the 90's under the military. Catch up with Turkish politics. :2wave:

There is everything provided concerning the infrastructure. There are German courses for free, there is extensive advertisement for that, there are schools, there are even special courses for immigrants (for free) to learn about Germany and the life here. There are enough examples of Turkish people here who were integrated.

Yet for how long was it that obtaining German citizenship was ny impossible until the law changed recently?

What lacks is the willingness of some Turkish immigrants to use it. And there is the Turkish state which warns the Turkish immigrants to integrate them and instead stoking hate against the land the immigrants live in as Erdogan did in 2006 in Cologne.

Dont get me wrong. You recieved a generation of Turks at the time who came from a very poor, ignorant, education deprived Turkey, at that time. Today things are very different.
Im not saying to you Turks arent integrating also in part of there own arrogance.

Nevertheless these cases of a few Turkish districts are here dramatized with the intention to blame Germany for the terror on 9/11. Even the normal crime rate there cannot compete with many other metropoles or even some regions on the Balkan.

What about 9/11?

 

[Phantom]

The first ones to blame America for 9/11 was Europeans.

Wrong! It was Alex Jones, an American conspiracy theorist from Texas. I would know because my dad listens to him all the time...

 

[kaya'08]

April fools, right?

500,000 Turks live in Great Britain, when was the last time you heard a British MP moaning about Turks and integration? Turks aside even, we have the highest numbers of Muslims who call themselves British compared to Muslims who can call themselves French or German.
Where are our Ghettos? None.




Actually i have also vouched that both sides are at fault, however, being the o-so perfect German citizen that you are, only the immigrants are at fault.



....whereas in Eastern Europe, Russians are the ones they are having problems integrating. I have a Latvian friend who i keep in contact with regularly and many other Eastern European friends who say the same thing.

We are talking about a totally different demographic here, the Muslim Turks, not the CHRISTIAN Russians, who by nature will be easier to integrate.

Obviously it seems the Germans have been too busy with there Russians friends to bother addressing the Turkish problem. So how do we solve it? We push there EU admission away, as if that will solve anything. :roll:




Yes, actually you are pointing out a very good point; obviously the Christian Democrats cant waste there time with the Muslim minority. Well know its not just Turks that are the problem. How about the Arabs, Kurds?


Quote where i said they shouldnt learn German. Making it up now, arent we?





:rofl
So, its not there fault, you just wrote down that it is? Hm ok.




You quoted yourself what are you referring to?





Please, refute me.




I read about the impressive German policy of integrating Jews. Gassing them, starving them, forcing them to eat dog **** and dig there own graves.....

FALSE propaganda works both ways.

Did you convieniently not hear of the Kurdish initiative? Of course not, it wouldnt suit you.




This isnt the 90's under the military. Catch up with Turkish politics. :2wave:



Yet for how long was it that obtaining German citizenship was ny impossible until the law changed recently?



Dont get me wrong. You recieved a generation of Turks at the time who came from a very poor, ignorant, education deprived Turkey, at that time. Today things are very different.
Im not saying to you Turks arent integrating also in part of there own arrogance.



What about 9/11?

....he was talking to me. :rofl

But anyway, since you done it for me, what he said. :mrgreen: