• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Islamists now in Germany

The_Penguin

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
Messages
808
Reaction score
205
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Germans have known for some time that their country is a target for terror.

In 2006, two Lebanese men tried and failed to blow up German commuter trains with a bomb in a suitcase.

In recent years, Islamic militant groups abroad have posted regular video messages on the internet warning of imminent attacks on Germany. The motivation: Germany's military mission in Afghanistan.

But the plot uncovered in 2007 shocked Germans more than any other incident.

That's because it involved native Germans joining a jihad against the West.

Growing up in the city of Ulm, Fritz Gelowicz seemed no different from any other teenager. He enjoyed sports and played in the local American Football team, the Ulm Barracudas.

But he became drawn to radical Islam. He had contact with radical preachers at a local cultural centre which was later shut down. He converted to Islam.

On 5 September 2007, German TV broadcast pictures of Fritz Gelowicz handcuffed and being led towards a police helicopter. He was one of three men arrested at a holiday cottage in the Sauerland region of western Germany.

Also detained was Daniel Schneider, another German convert to Islam.

There was video, too, of what investigators had found in the cottage: barrels containing enough hydrogen peroxide to produce hundreds of kilograms of explosives.

-snip-

BBC News - Risk of attack remains for Germany

Looks like London isn't the only one...
 

niftydrifty

Too big to fail
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Messages
4,725
Reaction score
1,391
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I'm not sure how you can say "now". Atta lived in Hamburg and worked with others there, 10 years ago.
 

Republic_Of_Public

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
2,922
Reaction score
343
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
It would be interesting to know how many of these German Muslims had connections with the Neo-Nazis. Such would make interesting reading.

Neo-Nazi Al Qaeda

What the neo-Nazi fanatic did next: switched to Islam - Times Online

Nazi War Criminal Converts to Islam Before Death | Iranian.com

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/67405-fallaci-write-europe-3.html#post1058600248



History repeats itself?

Muslim Converts in Germany: Angst-Ridden Germans Look for Answers -- And Find Them in the Koran - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

GERMANY REVERTS: GOES NAZI, REMOVES STAR OF DAVID FROM WINDOW - Atlas Shrugs


However, the good news should be that as Germany knows all about dealing with violent anti-semitic extremist doctrine from both sides of the fence, much can be done to halt this new menace.
 

Ikari

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
79,494
Reaction score
47,371
Location
Colorado
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left

The_Penguin

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
Messages
808
Reaction score
205
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
OMG....RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! The terrorists are coming....the terrorists are coming!

Please, what modern industrialized nation is going to escape the hate from less developed nations, especially ones embroiled in theocracy. Deal with it.

Most useless post I've seen this month... congrats.

Now go and think of something that will actually add value to the discussion.
 

Ikari

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
79,494
Reaction score
47,371
Location
Colorado
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
Most useless post I've seen this month... congrats.

Now go and think of something that will actually add value to the discussion.

Doesn't say much, the month is only 4 days old. HAHAHAHAHA

The most useless posts are those still trying to drum up fear over terrorists. Idiots and buffoons the lot. There will always be terrorists so long as there are pissed off people with no voice. Deal with it. Running around like a chicken with its head cut off screaming about the sky falling every time there's some act of terrorism or attempt at it...now that's the most useless posts/actions ever.
 
Last edited:

The_Penguin

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
Messages
808
Reaction score
205
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
The most useless posts are those still trying to drum up fear over terrorists.
An article high-lighting a serious social problem is now drumming up fear? Interesting...
Idiots and buffoons the lot. There will always be terrorists so long as there are pissed off people with no voice.
*sigh*

These men were white Germans, living in Germany with German passports and decided to side with lunatics and madmen. They're not from piss-poor hell-hole in the Middle East that gets dumped on by the local Pol Pot whenever the sun shines.
Running around like a chicken with its head cut off screaming about the sky falling every time there's some act of terrorism or attempt at it...now that's the most useless posts/actions ever.
I am? How do you figure? One article with one sentence. No exclamation points, no bold letters, no caps (except one.) What wondrous insights do you poses that enable you to extract these explanations from my words that not even I, the author, thought of while writing this? Really, do tell.

Do you want to know why I posted this before you jumped the gun and to an early conclusion? I want to know what motivates people that generally come from middle-class backgrounds (most terrorists are not from some ghetto that has no sanitation, they come from affluent backgrounds) to go to such extreme ideologies. I want to know about the psychological reasons what motivates such actions. That and curious what types of responses I would get from people.

Your crap of a post was expected.
 

MyOwnDrum

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
3,827
Reaction score
1,374
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
Hitler admired Islam, and lamented that Germany was a Christian nation, at times. He felt that Islams warlike nature was more in keeping with his own vision for Germany, as opposed to a more pacifist Christianity.
 

niftydrifty

Too big to fail
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Messages
4,725
Reaction score
1,391
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Hitler admired Islam, and lamented that Germany was a Christian nation, at times. He felt that Islams warlike nature was more in keeping with his own vision for Germany, as opposed to a more pacifist Christianity.

what does Hitler have to do with this? ... and ...
"pacifist Christianity" ... are you serious? wow.

buckle.jpg
 

Andalublue

Hello again!
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 2, 2010
Messages
27,099
Reaction score
12,353
Location
Granada, España
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
Hitler admired Islam, and lamented that Germany was a Christian nation, at times. He felt that Islams warlike nature was more in keeping with his own vision for Germany, as opposed to a more pacifist Christianity.

This is one of those cynical, old "let's link our opponent with Hitler" jibes. Just because a couple of self-appointed experts try to connect National Socialism with modern Islam doesn't make it so. I assume you are referring to this excuse for wasting trees...[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icon_of_Evil]Icon of Evil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

It's the oldest, and least intellectually credible, trick in the book. Shame on them and shame on you for resorting to the same lame rhetoric.
 

Republic_Of_Public

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
2,922
Reaction score
343
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Yea, shame on people for looking at the so-called 'evidence', information interpreted in all kinds of unhelpful ways. They should be more like hardcore obnoxious Lefti(s)ts and bury their heads in the sand when real life comes knocking. Indeed, seething Muslim rioters trashing embassies and torching cars for 'peace' would never look the same again!




http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/67405-fallaci-write-europe-3.html#post1058600248





Himmler, too, admired Islam, claiming its warlike qualities and calls for self-sacrifice in pursuit of terror ideal for his ends. As with Islam, Nazism tries to crush the cult of the individual. Anyone thumbing through the links rather than ignoring them will know this.

And let's not forget, for more ultimate connections between the two, the goose-step being re-introduced by Hamas as well as the Nazi salute being practised by Muslim troops across the world.

Example:

http://www.leftiness.org/Muslims_R_R_Future!_files/image004.jpg
 
Last edited:

Manc Skipper

Wrinkly member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
34,247
Reaction score
22,991
Location
Southern England
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
As Tom Lehrer so succinctly put it....

......
Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics
And the Catholics hate the Protestants
And the Hindus hate the Muslims
And everybody hates the Jews

But during National Brotherhood Week
National Brotherhood Week
It's National Everyone-Smile-At-
One-Another-hood Week
Be nice to people who
Are inferior to you
It's only for a week, so have no fear
Be grateful that it doesn't last all year!
 

Republic_Of_Public

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
2,922
Reaction score
343
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
That's quite amusing actually. Do you mind if I laugh at that?

But on a more serious note it's the doctrine I'm blaming. It corrupts people from birth.
 
Last edited:

The_Penguin

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
Messages
808
Reaction score
205
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
what does Hitler have to do with this? ... and ...
"pacifist Christianity" ... are you serious? wow.

buckle.jpg

:shrug:

The item has "Got with us."

Which God exactly are we talking about?
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,272
Reaction score
11,626
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
....."now?" Europe is a breeding ground for terrorist plotters. Even the 9/11 plotters worked out of Germany's environment. It is enjoyable watching Europeans slowly realize what others have been stating for a very long time though. Europe's immigration/lack of job problem is going to grow into great hardship. And Islamists love an opportunity where Muslims are "oppressed" and angry at western government. We are seeing friction on many levels throughout Europe between Muslims and their host governments already. Sooner or later, Europeans may get the feeling that exercising their freedoms must surpass their Muslim populations sensitivities. And then?

Culture is fate.
 
Last edited:

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,272
Reaction score
11,626
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
what does Hitler have to do with this? ... and ...
"pacifist Christianity" ... are you serious? wow.

buckle.jpg

I'm pretty sure he was just drawing the historical link between Germany and Islam. Were you not able to see that?
 
Last edited:

Manc Skipper

Wrinkly member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
34,247
Reaction score
22,991
Location
Southern England
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
There can be no doubt of his Christianist roots.

" An old church in Berlin needs a new roof and other running repairs.

Martin Luther Memorial church, Berlin
This particular church, built in 1929 in the Bauhaus style, comes complete with interior decoration from the Third Reich although there are bare patches where swastikas, illegal in Germany since 1945 have been ripped out.

There is an image of a Nazi storm trooper side by side with Jesus Christ carved into the pulpit, the entrance is lit by a chandelier in the shape of an iron cross and the organ was used to stir the spirits at a torch-lit Nuremberg rally.

“There was a bust of Adolf Hitler in the nave,” Isolde Boehm, dean of the church, said. “A carved face of Hitler has been replaced by one of Martin Luther. There is even a rumour that the church was supposed to be called the Adolf Hitler Church.”

There is no other church in Germany so obviously from the Third Reich era.

In the 1930s two thirds of the parish of Martin Luther Memorial were Nazi Party members. Their babies were baptised in a wooden font, which still bears the image of a storm trooper, and they married to music played by an organ that helped to create the dark atmosphere of the Nuremberg rallies." ... "

"Adolf Hitler" Church in Berlin to be restored
 
Last edited:

Grant

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
31,645
Reaction score
7,598
Location
Canada, Costa Rica
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
There can be no doubt of his Christianist roots.

Christianist?? I think the word you're looking for here is Christian, whatever your argument is.

Are you saying that only Christians can become religious fanatics or National Socialists, but Muslims cannot?

Or is it just Germans?

Maybe the Muslimists can tell you.
 

Andalublue

Hello again!
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 2, 2010
Messages
27,099
Reaction score
12,353
Location
Granada, España
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
....."now?" Europe is a breeding ground for terrorist plotters. Even the 9/11 plotters worked out of Germany's environment. It is enjoyable watching Europeans slowly realize what others have been stating for a very long time though. Europe's immigration/lack of job problem is going to grow into great hardship. And Islamists love an opportunity where Muslims are "oppressed" and angry at western government. We are seeing friction on many levels throughout Europe between Muslims and their host governments already. Sooner or later, Europeans may get the feeling that exercising their freedoms must surpass their Muslim populations sensitivities. And then?

Culture is fate.

Interesting. And where did the 9/11 plotters learn to fly? Where was that breeding ground you were talking about, Bub?
 

Grant

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
31,645
Reaction score
7,598
Location
Canada, Costa Rica
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Interesting. And where did the 9/11 plotters learn to fly? Where was that breeding ground you were talking about, Bub?

So you feel that Aviation Schools are breeding grounds for terrorists?
 

Andalublue

Hello again!
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 2, 2010
Messages
27,099
Reaction score
12,353
Location
Granada, España
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
Christianist?? I think the word you're looking for here is Christian, whatever your argument is.

Are you saying that only Christians can become religious fanatics or National Socialists, but Muslims cannot?

Or is it just Germans?

Maybe the Muslimists can tell you.

Yup, National Socialism was an exclusively Christian construct. Islamism at its most extreme incarnation is an ugly creed, but Nazi it ain't. You won't find ideas of pure blood, Aryan supremacy, lebensraum or manifest destiny within it. This doesn't mean that the ideas you do find are any more attractive. They are just different.

Associating Nazism and Islamism is just an intellectually weak position. You know everyone thinks Nazism is BAD, so associating Islamism with it automatically makes Islamism BAD too. I hate Islamism (the Islamism which oppresses, which hangs 15 year old gay boys, stones poor women with no other livelihood than prostitution, maims 13 year old girls to ensure they never experience sexual pleasure) but associating this with Nazism allows right-wingers to condemn it despite the fact that they agree with so many of its prohibitions.

Let's ask mbig, Grant, Apocalypse et al to unequivocally voice their support for gay marriage, racial integration, anti-discrimination, anti-hate-crime legislation, exclusively secular education. Go on, put your money where your mouth is.
 

Grant

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
31,645
Reaction score
7,598
Location
Canada, Costa Rica
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
"Yup, National Socialism was an exclusively Christian construct".

And you base this opinion... what??

So WWll was all about the Allies Atheists fighting the German Christians, huh?


"Islamism at its most extreme incarnation is an ugly creed, but Nazi it ain't".

Its usually more identified with Fascism, as in Islamofascism.

"You won't find ideas of pure blood, Aryan supremacy, lebensraum or manifest destiny within it".
Why would you, if Nazism was all about Chrsitianity?

"This doesn't mean that the ideas you do find are any more attractive. They are just different".

Yes, quite.

Associating Nazism and Islamism is just an intellectually weak position. You know everyone thinks Nazism is BAD, so associating Islamism with it automatically makes Islamism BAD too".

But Islamism is good? What do you admire most about it?

"I hate Islamism (the Islamism which oppresses, which hangs 15 year old gay boys, stones poor women with no other livelihood than prostitution, maims 13 year old girls to ensure they never experience sexual pleasure)"

Oh, so it's not good?? Which is it?

but associating this with Nazism allows right-wingers to condemn it despite the fact that they agree with so many of its prohibitions.

And which of these prohibitions do they agree with? Hanging 15 year old boys? Stoning women? Clitorectomies?

"Let's ask mbig, Grant, Apocalypse et al to unequivocally voice their support for gay marriage, racial integration, anti-discrimination, anti-hate-crime legislation, exclusively secular education. Go on, put your money where your mouth is.

Can't speak for anyone else but I support gay marriage (I have a Gay son), racial integration (I spend at least half the year among people of a different culture and language) am against any hate crime legislation, and feel that private schools are acceptable so long as they do not preach hatred, denigrate others, and follow the general curriculum of the rest of the schools.

What about you?
 

Republic_Of_Public

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
2,922
Reaction score
343
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Yup, National Socialism was an exclusively Christian construct. Islamism at its most extreme incarnation is an ugly creed, but Nazi it ain't. You won't find ideas of pure blood, Aryan supremacy, lebensraum or manifest destiny within it. This doesn't mean that the ideas you do find are any more attractive. They are just different.

Lie lie lie, Holohoax, holohoax, holohoax!

Nazism was pagan, if it was anything, indulging in all that rubbish about Norse gods and Valhalla. Himmler was keen on all the junk about runes and worshipping the ancestors as gods. Any undertanding of spirituality on Hitler's part was Catholic, though he saw the Church mainly as opposition for the German public's soul and ethics. In that way Nazism and Islam are different, though Islam too draws on a ill-fitting patchwork of old Jewish and Christian concepts to create a false heritage in the same way Nazism drew on selected episodes from its spiritual past to justify a mystic spirituality.

As I've said a dozen times, Nazism and Islamism are intrinsically linked on a technical level. I've provided link after link, but those are just spam aren't they. You do indeed find examples of supremacy of the creed (though not blood as such), domination of inferiors and manifest destiny in Islam but you just want to know. Just as you 'no platform' me because you can't take the arguments I put up and give you the leatherings you deserve.

Still, if you want to do a Nick Griffin and deny evils you don't like, that's up to you.
 
Last edited:

Andalublue

Hello again!
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 2, 2010
Messages
27,099
Reaction score
12,353
Location
Granada, España
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
And you base this opinion... what??
Mein Kampf. Read it. It's very clear.

So WWll was all about the Allies Atheists fighting the German Christians, huh?

And I say that, where? That Nazism was essentially a (f***ed up) Christian construct doesn't mean that anti-Nazism isn't. This isn't a "my religion's better than your religion" dick-measuring contest. Do you want it to be?

Its usually more identified with Fascism, as in Islamofascism.

As in neo-con propaganda terms. Gawd bless 'em.

Why would you, if Nazism was all about Chrsitianity?
Sorry, I don't get your point.

But Islamism is good? What do you admire most about it?

Saying Islamism is not Nazi is not the same as saying Islamism is good. If I need to point that out then we're really not going to get anywhere, are we?

And which of these prohibitions do they agree with? Hanging 15 year old boys? Stoning women? Clitorectomies?
Well, if you listen to a lot of televangelists (I'm thinking Pat Robertson, Fred Phelps etc) they're probably in favour of the first two.

Can't speak for anyone else but I support gay marriage (I have a Gay son), racial integration (I spend at least half the year among people of a different culture and language) am against any hate crime legislation, and feel that private schools are acceptable so long as they do not preach hatred, denigrate others, and follow the general curriculum of the rest of the schools.

What about you?

As you might be surprised to discover, I'm against gay marriage. I am gay and I don't think we should be aping heterosexual institutions. I'm all in favour of equal legal treatment of gay partners and straight partners. I live the whole time in a different culture and language from my own and I don't blanket condemn any other religion or culture, especially one that has over a billion members. I'm not a Christian but Matthew 7:3 seems apt in this discussion:

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Christians, Jews and atheists should be settling with their own issues before tackling the mote that is in thy Muslim brother's eye.

I am against the idea of 'faith' schools. I believe that religion and state should be kept apart. I am against 'private' schooling generally. Education is not something that should make anyone a profit.
 

Grant

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
31,645
Reaction score
7,598
Location
Canada, Costa Rica
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Mein Kampf. Read it. It's very clear.

So you read Mein Kampf? And you discovered this there? Do you still have your copy handy??

I'll say goodnight. I don't believe you're sober.
 
Top Bottom