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Islamic Ascendancy?? (1 Viewer)

dsanthony

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For students of history, it's interesting to see which nascent movements become dominant forces of history. Did the Egyptians see Greek and Roman tribesmen as the forces which would one day rule them? Certainly few Roman citizens heard of an itinerant Jewish rabbi named Jesus, and none of them would have believed that his followers would one day dominate the empire, and outlast that empire by a thousand years or more. When the British were burning Washington DC during the War of 1812, they would have laughed at the idea that 140 years later they would be looking to Washington to save them.

Momentum and fervor are forces in politics, just as they are in sports. The Western world (US and Europe) are becoming passive and tired of the burden of leadership. Almost half of the AMerican public agrees with Europe that the risks and costs of "dominating" the world are too great.

Of course, they are naive enough to think that there are not other groups which are driven to "dominate" the world. Whether it is the totalitarian regimes of Japan and Germany, or the communist Soviet Union--there is always competition between alternative world views. The West (or most of it) had the energy and drive to meet the challenges of those two forces. They clearly do not have the energy to combat this newer force of radical Islam. Blair's departure in Britain, and Bush's low ratings in the US, are clear signs that the tide is turning AGAINST the war on terror.

In 100 years, it is not unimaginable that Islam becomes a dominant force in international politics. They are a worldwide movement, they have economic might, and they have the fervor and drive that the US had 50 years ago, or Britain had 100 years ago.
 
dsanthony said:
For students of history, it's interesting to see which nascent movements become dominant forces of history. Did the Egyptians see Greek and Roman tribesmen as the forces which would one day rule them? Certainly few Roman citizens heard of an itinerant Jewish rabbi named Jesus, and none of them would have believed that his followers would one day dominate the empire, and outlast that empire by a thousand years or more. When the British were burning Washington DC during the War of 1812, they would have laughed at the idea that 140 years later they would be looking to Washington to save them.

Momentum and fervor are forces in politics, just as they are in sports. The Western world (US and Europe) are becoming passive and tired of the burden of leadership. Almost half of the AMerican public agrees with Europe that the risks and costs of "dominating" the world are too great.

Of course, they are naive enough to think that there are not other groups which are driven to "dominate" the world. Whether it is the totalitarian regimes of Japan and Germany, or the communist Soviet Union--there is always competition between alternative world views. The West (or most of it) had the energy and drive to meet the challenges of those two forces. They clearly do not have the energy to combat this newer force of radical Islam. Blair's departure in Britain, and Bush's low ratings in the US, are clear signs that the tide is turning AGAINST the war on terror.

In 100 years, it is not unimaginable that Islam becomes a dominant force in international politics. They are a worldwide movement, they have economic might, and they have the fervor and drive that the US had 50 years ago, or Britain had 100 years ago.


Cultures die when they lose faith in themselves.

In looking for reasons, people too easily ascribe blame, and the blame they ascribe too often acts as a form of cultural self loathing. THey do not hold terrorists responsible for their horrible acts, but us, for they rationalize that since nothing happens without a reason and they just cannot comprehend the awfulness of mass murder, these actions must have been elicited by something and that someting is therefore surely us. We have lost the will to believe in ourselves, as we are so lost in this sea of culural relativism that in trying to be fair and politically correct and avoid charges of racism that we lose sight of the fact that we have some things worth fighting for and that those who are against us are so radically different from us in their outlook that we SHOULD be alarmed and they ARE a threat. We are so busy not taking sides that we fail to make distinctions and the distinctions we are failing to make are those of our own sense of cultural morality.

If we have come to the point where we must tolerate those who are commited to genocide, make no moral distinctions between their tactics and ours, inverse the relationship between cause and effect and ignore facts because those facts are too threatening to our sense that cultures must all somehow be regarded equally, than we have lost already. We have lost because we have given up fighting for who we are.
 
At the moment, Arabic Islam is fractured and in the midst of a theological civil war. What happens in the future will largely depend on which vision of true Islam prevails... the antiquated Wahhabi version or a revised theology which can co-exist and thrive with modernity.

I do not believe that the Islamic arc from Morocco to Pakistan can move forward or usurp the west unless it willingly embraces religious and sociological (tribalism/culture) reforms. By and large, growth does not necessarily equate with empire. China and India are indicitive of this adage. Both nations have now embarked on tapping their true potential, a course that was not possible until reforms were legislated and acted upon.
 
America never had an "empire" (excluding a short occupation of the Phillipines and other islands), so that is not a requirement to becoming dominant. The only requirement is that the Islamists become a dominant force... ie, fear of them keeps the Pope from speaking from his heart, or South Park creators from showing an image of Mohammed on tv... oh, wait. Those things have already happened...
 
And again, the fractions within the christian church persisted and continue to this day, yet they still became the dominant global culture--even DURING the wars of religion between Protestant and Catholics...
 
You asked for replies, and I replied. Simple simon ;)
 
sorry if you're not up to debating ideas.
 
dsanthony said:
sorry if you're not up to debating ideas.
I've been doing this for quite a while and can fairly reliably discern when positions are entrenched. I don't mean to disappoint, but I've done this debate before and I am currently the only Moderator active... many time-issues.

I'm quite certain however, that other posters will take issue with your postulate and engage you with vitality, vim, and vigor. By the way, welcome to Debate Politics! You write with purpose and clarity... you'll do very well here.

Tashah :2wave:
 
Tashah said:
I've been doing this for quite a while and can fairly reliably discern when positions are entrenched. I don't mean to disappoint, but I've done this debate before and I am currently the only Moderator active... many time-issues.

I'm quite certain however, that other posters will take issue with your postulate and engage you with vitality, vim, and vigor. By the way, welcome to Debate Politics! You write with purpose and clarity... you'll do very well here.

Tashah :2wave:


Tashah, the manner that you use your education and vocabulary comes across, at times, as intellectual bullying. Nobody likes a bully or to be bullied. It's nice that you know these vocabulary words, are intelligent and have an education, nobody is holding that against you. Many others have your education, your intellect and your vocabulary on this forum, but they do not use that vocabulary in such a manner because they know it can come across the wrong way. I wouldn't use some of the vocabulary that you use in a political debate, even though I do have that vocabulary level that you are currently exhibiting in some of your posts. I don't see the necessity. It is not the way to get people to listen to your ideas or views. That's probably the real issue here in this particular situation. I am not sure if that has crossed your mind.
 
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MarineCorpsCandidate said:
Tashah, the manner that you use your education and vocabulary comes across, at times, as intellectual bullying. Nobody likes a bully or to be bullied. It's nice that you know these vocabulary words, are intelligent and have an education, nobody is holding that against you. Many others have your education, your intellect and your vocabulary on this forum, but they do not use that vocabulary in such a manner because they know it can come across the wrong way. I wouldn't use some of the vocabulary that you use in a political debate, even though I do have that vocabulary level that you are currently exhibiting in some of your posts. I don't see the necessity. It is not the way to get people to listen to your ideas or views. That's probably the real issue here in this particular situation. I am not sure if that has crossed your mind.


What bull.

The fact that you or anybody else might have a chip on your shoulder based upon insecurity does not mean that she is bullying.

You might as well blame her for being so.......shall we say.......pulchritudenous.
 
Well, for me it wasn't his vocabulary (I have a Masters in English and can thrust and parry with the best)... it was his "simple simon" comment in place of debate which bothered me.
 
dsanthony said:
Well, for me it wasn't his vocabulary (I have a Masters in English and can thrust and parry with the best)... it was his "simple simon" comment in place of debate which bothered me.

Well, I was just putting my two cents worth. I don't have anything against Tashah, but you don't have to un-necessarily exhibit a vast vocabulary to debate or to make a case with a multitude of strangers on the internet whose vocabulary level you do not know. I prefer to use a vocabulary that is common to everybody because I don't know the people here or their vocabulary level and they don't know mine or my vocabulary level. I mean, I don't exhibit the full potential of my vocabulary when I debate people because I am trying to convey my ideas in a language that is common to everybody of all vocabulary levels.
 
MarineCorpsCandidate said:
Tashah, the manner that you use your education and vocabulary comes across, at times, as intellectual bullying. Nobody likes a bully or to be bullied. It's nice that you know these vocabulary words, are intelligent and have an education, nobody is holding that against you. Many others have your education, your intellect and your vocabulary on this forum, but they do not use that vocabulary in such a manner because they know it can come across the wrong way. I wouldn't use some of the vocabulary that you use in a political debate, even though I do have that vocabulary level that you are currently exhibiting in some of your posts. I don't see the necessity. It is not the way to get people to listen to your ideas or views. That's probably the real issue here in this particular situation. I am not sure if that has crossed your mind.
I don't feel there is an issue in this thread. I did the best I could today in the juggling time available. By the way MCC, aren't you the individual who wanted me to read something?

To my knowledge, I am not currently exhibiting a strange new vocabulary in my posts. They have always been thus. Peruse my last 500 posts if you care to. In my particular field, brevity and clarity in communication are highly treasured and no doubt this attribute has bled over into all of my written efforts. No one else seems to have a problem understanding me... other than you, no complaints have been voiced. Lol, if I grate on your nerves and sensibility simply skip over my posts. We both might benefit.
 
dsanthony said:
Well, for me it wasn't his vocabulary (I have a Masters in English and can thrust and parry with the best)... it was his "simple simon" comment in place of debate which bothered me.
Consider 'Simple simon' retracted with an apology. By the way, a HE is nowhere in the picture... I am a SHE. :cool:
 
Well my vocabulary only contains a few four and five letter words. With the most versatile word starting with the letter “F”...........:lol:
 
I can see you're another who'd rather call names than debate. Is there an ignore function on this forum?
 
dsanthony said:
I can see you're another who'd rather call names than debate. Is there an ignore function on this forum?

Who are you talking to?
 
Vader said:
Pobinr is back again!!

:shock:

You think? I'm not so sure. His posts don't have that level aggresivity. It is early, though.
 
Please consider yourselves ignored. You would rather discuss personalities than ideas, and I prefer not to correspond with you. As I asked, is there an ignore function on this forum?
 
MarineCorpsCandidate said:
Well, I was just putting my two cents worth. I don't have anything against Tashah, but you don't have to un-necessarily exhibit a vast vocabulary to debate or to make a case with a multitude of strangers on the internet whose vocabulary level you do not know. I prefer to use a vocabulary that is common to everybody because I don't know the people here or their vocabulary level and they don't know mine or my vocabulary level. I mean, I don't exhibit the full potential of my vocabulary when I debate people because I am trying to convey my ideas in a language that is common to everybody of all vocabulary levels.
Your predication of your own infirmity compelled me off my chair.

It's not even SAT level. Do you have trouble understanding words such as brevity or simple latin based expressions?

I'm afraid to request for your SAT scores.
 
Gardener said:
What bull.

The fact that you or anybody else might have a chip on your shoulder based upon insecurity does not mean that she is bullying.

You might as well blame her for being so.......shall we say.......pulchritudenous.

Good one, Gardener, but....there is no 'e' in pulchrintudinous. :mrgreen: Btw, where did you come up with that word?
 
dsanthony said:
Please consider yourselves ignored. You would rather discuss personalities than ideas, and I prefer not to correspond with you. As I asked, is there an ignore function on this forum?

Relax. People around here are a little suspicious because of the behavior of a banned member. No offense was meant by my post. But, if you are interested, there is an ignore function, here. I would suggest that you not use it too quickly, however. I have learned that an irritating post can often be an exception rather than the rule for that poster. Also, again IMO, it is better to call someone out on the perceived personal attacks (which you did with Tashah, and got the retraction) than placing them on ignore. Just my :twocents:.
 

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