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Islam and rape

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stevecanuck said:
That's a false dichotomy. People actually do things that are not allowed. That's why we have police.
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Yes but with catholic priests it is a pattern. So many are pedophiles that it has to be sanctioned by the Vatican.
 
99percenter said:
Yes but with catholic priests it is a pattern. So many are pedophiles that it has to be sanctioned by the Vatican.
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...and they still are up to their old tricks; Catholic Church housed pedophile 'Christian Brothers' in same property rented out for events,

and it's not just the catholics; Anglican abuse cover-up hearing continues | SBS News. In Canada, almost every denomination had a role in the abuse of native kids at schools set aside for what history will likely view as their sole purpose.
 
99percenter said:
Yes but with catholic priests it is a pattern. So many are pedophiles that it has to be sanctioned by the Vatican.
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Covered up maybe, but there's no way you could call it sanctioned. Either way they're in desperate need of cleaning up their act.

Compare that with official sanction that Islam gives.
 
stevecanuck said:
Covered up maybe, but there's no way you could call it sanctioned. Either way they're in desperate need of cleaning up their act.

Compare that with official sanction that Islam gives.
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And that is the problem with christians. They think there religion's problems are cover ups and islam's are sanctioned. I got news for you. They are both the same religion.
 
99percenter said:
And that is the problem with christians. They think there religion's problems are cover ups and islam's are sanctioned. I got news for you. They are both the same religion.
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They don't think it, they know it. You are woefully unprepared to discuss this topic.
 
coldjoint said:
They don't think it, they know it. You are woefully unprepared to discuss this topic.
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Yes Islam does sanction violence just like Christianity sanctions rape. They are both violent religions. Abrahamic religions are responsible for almost every single atrocity we have.
 
99percenter said:
Yes Islam does sanction violence just like Christianity sanctions rape. They are both violent religions. Abrahamic religions are responsible for almost every single atrocity we have.
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You can prove that by showing me something from the NT, or Cannon law that says that. Nowhere in Christian doctrine does that exist. I'll wait.

And Stalin and Mao were Christians?
 
stevecanuck said:
Covered up maybe, but there's no way you could call it sanctioned. Either way they're in desperate need of cleaning up their act.

Compare that with official sanction that Islam gives.
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The RCC, as revealed in "Sex, Priests and Secret Codes" by three priests, has been covering up pedophilia amongst it's ranks since day one. Many popes were pedophiles as were many so-called "saints". While there may not be a hidden document somewhere saying pedo-priests are sanctioned by the church, the fact the church has done nothing to purge the vile practice amounts to a sotto voce approval and thus sanction. Today, the pope is making all manner of pleasant sounds about "sorry" and claims of cleaning things up. At the same time pedo-priests are not being turned over to secular authorities, victims are still forced to go through a painful court process among other abuses by the Vatican. IOW, nothing has changed.
 
Realitywins said:
...and they still are up to their old tricks; Catholic Church housed pedophile 'Christian Brothers' in same property rented out for events,

and it's not just the catholics; Anglican abuse cover-up hearing continues | SBS News. In Canada, almost every denomination had a role in the abuse of native kids at schools set aside for what history will likely view as their sole purpose.
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It will come as no surprise to learn the C of E is equally culpable; Church of England warned bishops not to apologise too fully to sex abuse victims 

The simple fact is where you have children, you have pedophiles. What amazes me is how few teachers have been caught over the many years. We know many school boards and teacher's unions have used the RCC's tactic of shipping pedo-teachers off to new hunting grounds.
 
Kiwimac said:
Read the OT.

He aha te mea nui? He tangata, he tangata, he tangata!
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Yeah, that's what I thought, deflect with a saying is no answer at all.
 
American said:
Yeah, that's what I thought, deflect with a saying is no answer at all.
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He aha te mea nui o te ao
What is the most important thing in the world?
He tangata, he tangata, he tangata
It is the people, it is the people, it is the people
Maori proverb
 
Realitywins said:
He aha te mea nui o te ao
What is the most important thing in the world?
He tangata, he tangata, he tangata
It is the people, it is the people, it is the people
Maori proverb
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Google worked for you.
 
Kiwimac said:
Actually I did reply. The poster simply did not like my answer.
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You may wish to subscribe to some remedial English lessons. A reply is not always an answer. In this case you replied, but did not answer.
 
stevecanuck said:
In the now closed thread "To maintain supply of sex slaves, ISIS pushes birth control", Dittohead Not asked, "I wonder which part of their Koran they cite to justify sex slaves". He will probably be surprised to hear that there is an actual answer to that question, but before I give it, I want to clarify that I'm not playing a game of My Religion Is Better Than Islam, because I have no religion. I wouldn't bother commenting on any beliefs if they didn't impact the world, which is why I neither know nor care what, for example, Shintoism teaches. Now, to the subject at hand:

Islam does indeed sanction the rape of captives and/or slaves. If you want to say, "Yabut Christians rape too", you would of course be right. The Crusades alone bear this out, but that is not the point. Christians who rape, and even claim to do so in the name of their religion, can point to no scriptural or historical example for justification. To the best of my knowledge, no words or deeds ascribed to the mythical character know as Jesus even come close to approval of rape. Muslims, in stark contrast, not only have passages from the Qur'an and hadiths to sanctify and condone their crime, but the real life example of Mohamed and the first Muslims.

Let's start with the Qur'an. The following verse concludes a list that describes with whom Muslims may not have sex: 4:24 - And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess.

The following 2 verses are from a list of conditions by which a Muslim must abide for God to look favorably upon him on Judgement Day: 70:29-30 - ...And those who guard their private parts Except from their wives or those their right hands possess, for indeed, they are not to be blamed.

This means you can rape your captives. Period. Amanda Lindhout, who was held by Islamists in Somalia for 15 months, was shown these verses when she complained about being repeatedly raped by one of her guards despite the fact that she had "converted" to Islam.

Even more damning is that Mohamed condoned (and probably participated in) the practice. These hadiths (and there are more that say the same thing) show conclusively that females who fell into the hands of the pracitioners of the Religion of Peace could be raped:

Jabir added: We used to practice coitus interruptus during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle while the Quran was being Revealed.

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: That during the battle with Bani Al-Mustaliq they (Muslims) captured some females and intended to have sexual relation with them without impregnating them. So they asked the Prophet about coitus interruptus. The Prophet said, "It is better that you should not do it, for Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection." Qaza'a said, "I heard Abu Sa'id saying that the Prophet said, 'No soul is ordained to be created but Allah will create it."

The hadith makes it worse. At least Mohamed's men were trying to prevent their rape victims from becoming pregnant, but Mohamed gave them the green light to complete the rape by telling them God has already decided if they will get pregnant.

When ISIS fighters who line up to buy sex slaves say, "It is ordained", this is what they are talking about.
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Bump for ThoughtEx.
 
stevecanuck said:
In the now closed thread "To maintain supply of sex slaves, ISIS pushes birth control", Dittohead Not asked, "I wonder which part of their Koran they cite to justify sex slaves". He will probably be surprised to hear that there is an actual answer to that question, but before I give it, I want to clarify that I'm not playing a game of My Religion Is Better Than Islam, because I have no religion. I wouldn't bother commenting on any beliefs if they didn't impact the world, which is why I neither know nor care what, for example, Shintoism teaches. Now, to the subject at hand:

Islam does indeed sanction the rape of captives and/or slaves. If you want to say, "Yabut Christians rape too", you would of course be right. The Crusades alone bear this out, but that is not the point. Christians who rape, and even claim to do so in the name of their religion, can point to no scriptural or historical example for justification. To the best of my knowledge, no words or deeds ascribed to the mythical character know as Jesus even come close to approval of rape. Muslims, in stark contrast, not only have passages from the Qur'an and hadiths to sanctify and condone their crime, but the real life example of Mohamed and the first Muslims.

Let's start with the Qur'an. The following verse concludes a list that describes with whom Muslims may not have sex: 4:24 - And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess.

The following 2 verses are from a list of conditions by which a Muslim must abide for God to look favorably upon him on Judgement Day: 70:29-30 - ...And those who guard their private parts Except from their wives or those their right hands possess, for indeed, they are not to be blamed.

This means you can rape your captives. Period. Amanda Lindhout, who was held by Islamists in Somalia for 15 months, was shown these verses when she complained about being repeatedly raped by one of her guards despite the fact that she had "converted" to Islam.

Even more damning is that Mohamed condoned (and probably participated in) the practice. These hadiths (and there are more that say the same thing) show conclusively that females who fell into the hands of the pracitioners of the Religion of Peace could be raped:

Jabir added: We used to practice coitus interruptus during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle while the Quran was being Revealed.

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: That during the battle with Bani Al-Mustaliq they (Muslims) captured some females and intended to have sexual relation with them without impregnating them. So they asked the Prophet about coitus interruptus. The Prophet said, "It is better that you should not do it, for Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection." Qaza'a said, "I heard Abu Sa'id saying that the Prophet said, 'No soul is ordained to be created but Allah will create it."

The hadith makes it worse. At least Mohamed's men were trying to prevent their rape victims from becoming pregnant, but Mohamed gave them the green light to complete the rape by telling them God has already decided if they will get pregnant.

When ISIS fighters who line up to buy sex slaves say, "It is ordained", this is what they are talking about.
Click to expand...

Of course Christians will not generally try to justify "sex slaves" on the basis of the Bible. Muslims will not generally try to justify "sex slaves" on the basis of the Qu'ran.

Regardless - the OT is perfectly fine with sex slaves/ one could easily justify the having and keeping of sex slaves on the basis of the OT.
 
thinkagain said:
Of course Christians will not generally try to justify "sex slaves" on the basis of the Bible. Muslims will not generally try to justify "sex slaves" on the basis of the Qu'ran.

Regardless - the OT is perfectly fine with sex slaves/ one could easily justify the having and keeping of sex slaves on the basis of the OT.
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Yes they do. ISIS members have quoted the Koran many times while selling and buying sex slaves captured in battle.

Question 4: Is it permissible to have intercourse with a female captive?

It is permissible to have sexual intercourse with the female captive. Allah the almighty said: (Successful are the believers) who guard their chastity, except from their wives or (the captives and slaves) that their right hands possess, for then they are free from blame (Quran 23:5-6).

Question 5: Is it permissible to have intercourse with a female captive immediately after taking possession (of her)?

If she is a virgin, he (her master) can have intercourse with her immediately after taking possession of her. However, is she isn’t, her uterus must be purified (first).

Question 6: Is it permissible to sell a female captive?

It is permissible to buy, sell, or give as a gift female captives and slaves, for they are merely property, which can be disposed of (as long as that doesn’t cause (the Muslim ummah) any harm or damage).
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Read more at ISIS cites Quran to justify child rape
 
thinkagain said:
Of course Christians will not generally try to justify "sex slaves" on the basis of the Bible. Muslims will not generally try to justify "sex slaves" on the basis of the Qu'ran.

Regardless - the OT is perfectly fine with sex slaves/ one could easily justify the having and keeping of sex slaves on the basis of the OT.
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So, that's a round about way of saying I didn't get anything wrong. Even though ISIS is scripturally and historically correct when they claim Islam EXPLICITLY condones sex slavery, the religion itself gets a pass. Why?
 
For those unfamiliar with this "scholar":

"I'll revive this corpse every couple of months as I have been doing already, the minute I can catch a new arrival that's not yet familiar with its state of failure and subsequent decomposition"

Supplemented by:

"Seeing how I've said this elsewhere already, it becomes doubly true if I repeatedly quote myself. At the same time establishing my credibility as an authority, seeing how I've been repeatedly quoted".

Yeah right.
 
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