Is Zylynsky going to burn bridges with the west?

[Craig234]

The unity of support for Ukraine is remarkable, despite support being limited to supplies because of the threat of nuclear war; Zylynsky has been viewed as providing great leadership, getting a standing ovation when he talked to the EU, support for expedited EU membership, praise from Biden in his state of the union, etc.

But now, Zylynsky not only continues to insist on a no-fly zone NATO has said is not an option because of nuclear war, Zylynsky told NATO/Europe/US that every casualty going forward is on their hands because of their refusal on a no-fly zone. I'd think that risks his alienating his allies. It seems quite ill-advised as an attack. On a related topic though, why doesn't supplying aircraft seem more discussed?

 

[jnug]

We understand his position, He is not going to burn his bridges because WE understand.

Zelensky is just going to have to deal with the reality of the situation he is in. His people are going to take the brunt of this bloody, criminal mess by Putin. They are going to have to fight it out all the way through either driving Putin off or refusing to allow him to keep his ill gotten gains. He is going to have to accept what we can give him without us walking into a widening of this war.

Volunteers showing up and continuing to show up is extremely encouraging. Our continued arms support is very encouraging. If we supply Ukraine with mobile ground to air missiles, you can take Putin's modest air supremacy and shove it up his ass. If we send Zelensky jets, its an even playing field with regard to control of the air. Neither side will have it.

Under a certain set of circumstances at least an argument could have been made realistically for an air cap. However it is now obvious that Putin will not meet his strategic objectives under the current set of circumstances. Plus I very much suspect we:
- will give Ukraine mobile ground to air missiles
- might just give him aircraft

 

[tacomancer]

The unity of support for Ukraine is remarkable, despite support being limited to supplies because of the threat of nuclear war; Zylynsky has been viewed as providing great leadership, getting a standing ovation when he talked to the EU, support for expedited EU membership, praise from Biden in his state of the union, etc.

But now, Zylynsky not only continues to insist on a no-fly zone NATO has said is not an option because of nuclear war, Zylynsky told NATO/Europe/US that every casualty going forward is on their hands because of their refusal on a no-fly zone. I'd think that risks his alienating his allies. It seems quite ill-advised as an attack. On a related topic though, why doesn't supplying aircraft seem more discussed?

He wants to save the lives of his people.

 

[BirdinHand]

He’s trying to save the lives of his citizens.

No one will hold it against him, even if no one can offer more help.

 

[Michael Cole]

He’s trying to save the lives of his citizens.

No one will hold it against him, even if no one can offer more help.

Indeed. No one got their feelings hurt by Zelensky's speech.

 

[uptower]

No harm in asking. It’s obvious he is literally under fire and the pressure that causes. Of course he will ask for more help because he desperately needs it. If it’s more than NATO feels it can give they won’t hold it against him.

 

[Lutherf]

The unity of support for Ukraine is remarkable, despite support being limited to supplies because of the threat of nuclear war; Zylynsky has been viewed as providing great leadership, getting a standing ovation when he talked to the EU, support for expedited EU membership, praise from Biden in his state of the union, etc.

But now, Zylynsky not only continues to insist on a no-fly zone NATO has said is not an option because of nuclear war, Zylynsky told NATO/Europe/US that every casualty going forward is on their hands because of their refusal on a no-fly zone. I'd think that risks his alienating his allies. It seems quite ill-advised as an attack. On a related topic though, why doesn't supplying aircraft seem more discussed?

Yeah. People, including Zelensky, should just shut the **** up and die because asking others for help when you need help is a sign of weakness. Unless government is used to solve all our problems we can't possibly be a free world. Government is all things to all people whether they recognize it as such or not and no government anywhere should ever be questioned...unless Trump.

 

[Chomsky]

The unity of support for Ukraine is remarkable, despite support being limited to supplies because of the threat of nuclear war; Zylynsky has been viewed as providing great leadership, getting a standing ovation when he talked to the EU, support for expedited EU membership, praise from Biden in his state of the union, etc.

But now, Zylynsky not only continues to insist on a no-fly zone NATO has said is not an option because of nuclear war, Zylynsky told NATO/Europe/US that every casualty going forward is on their hands because of their refusal on a no-fly zone. I'd think that risks his alienating his allies. It seems quite ill-advised as an attack.

Zelenksy would seem to have no choice, but to ratchet-up his requests, since his people are dying.

On a related topic though, why doesn't supplying aircraft seem more discussed?

Discussed by whom?

 

[Rexedgar]

How is supplying aircraft w/o pilots any different from providing other weapons to be used against the Russian invaders?

 

[RetiredUSN]

Now Russia can attack any country it likes with the support of China and Iran because it has nukes?

 

[Chomsky]

No harm in asking. It’s obvious he is literally under fire and the pressure that causes. Of course he will ask for more help because he desperately needs it. If it’s more than NATO feels it can give they won’t hold it against him.

Agreed.

Today I think he did a good job. He seemed to sincerely thank NATO & the U.S. for their sanctions, but then adamantly, but respectfully, asked for air support.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

We understand his position, He is not going to burn his bridges because WE understand.

exactly

 

[donhughesmusic]

The unity of support for Ukraine is remarkable, despite support being limited to supplies because of the threat of nuclear war; Zylynsky has been viewed as providing great leadership, getting a standing ovation when he talked to the EU, support for expedited EU membership, praise from Biden in his state of the union, etc.

But now, Zylynsky not only continues to insist on a no-fly zone NATO has said is not an option because of nuclear war, Zylynsky told NATO/Europe/US that every casualty going forward is on their hands because of their refusal on a no-fly zone. I'd think that risks his alienating his allies. It seems quite ill-advised as an attack. On a related topic though, why doesn't supplying aircraft seem more discussed?

Just because we would supply aircraft doesn't mean they have the training or pilots available to fly the planes.

 

[Craig234]

Just because we would supply aircraft doesn't mean they have the training or pilots available to fly the planes.

No, it doesn't, but I did see a Ukranian ask for the planes saying they do have the pilots.

 

[Craig234]

Zelenksy would seem to have no choice, but to ratchet-up his requests, since his people are dying.

Ratcheting up his request doesn't mean attacking his allies.

Discussed by whom?

Leaders or media or the public or even Zelensky.

 

[Craig234]

He wants to save the lives of his people.

How does asking NATO to destroy the world in nuclear war and telling them they are responsible like Putin for Ukranians killed if they don't helping?

 

[sanman]

We understand his position, He is not going to burn his bridges because WE understand.

Zelensky is just going to have to deal with the reality of the situation he is in. His people are going to take the brunt of this bloody, criminal mess by Putin. They are going to have to fight it out all the way through either driving Putin off or refusing to allow him to keep his ill gotten gains. He is going to have to accept what we can give him without us walking into a widening of this war.

Volunteers showing up and continuing to show up is extremely encouraging. Our continued arms support is very encouraging. If we supply Ukraine with mobile ground to air missiles, you can take Putin's modest air supremacy and shove it up his ass. If we send Zelensky jets, its an even playing field with regard to control of the air. Neither side will have it.

Under a certain set of circumstances at least an argument could have been made realistically for an air cap. However it is now obvious that Putin will not meet his strategic objectives under the current set of circumstances. Plus I very much suspect we:
- will give Ukraine mobile ground to air missiles
- might just give him aircraft

This amounts to saying the West will use Ukrainians as cannon-fodder. The West has already said it won't fight for Ukraine.
But this goal of encouraging the Ukrainians to fight just means exploiting them -- ie. fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian, while everybody else applauds.

 

[jnug]

This amounts to saying the West will use Ukrainians as cannon-fodder. The West has already said it won't fight for Ukraine.
But this goal of encouraging the Ukrainians to fight just means exploiting them -- ie. fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian, while everybody else applauds.

1. NOPE ....not at all. Ukraine is not part of NATO nor any other western defense alliance. It amounts to then West avowing a World War with MONSTER Putin.
2. The Ukrainians don't need encouragement to fight in case you have not noticed
3. You can go back to fumbling for the zipper on the front of Putin's fly now

 

[Deuce]

The unity of support for Ukraine is remarkable, despite support being limited to supplies because of the threat of nuclear war; Zylynsky has been viewed as providing great leadership, getting a standing ovation when he talked to the EU, support for expedited EU membership, praise from Biden in his state of the union, etc.

But now, Zylynsky not only continues to insist on a no-fly zone NATO has said is not an option because of nuclear war, Zylynsky told NATO/Europe/US that every casualty going forward is on their hands because of their refusal on a no-fly zone. I'd think that risks his alienating his allies. It seems quite ill-advised as an attack. On a related topic though, why doesn't supplying aircraft seem more discussed?

No, this is not an issue.

 

[jnug]

No, this is not an issue.

Actually, I have concluded that Zelensky continues to petition for what he knows he cannot get (no fly zone) as a means to pressure the west further to provide him surface to air missiles and airplanes.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

The unity of support for Ukraine is remarkable, despite support being limited to supplies because of the threat of nuclear war; Zylynsky has been viewed as providing great leadership, getting a standing ovation when he talked to the EU, support for expedited EU membership, praise from Biden in his state of the union, etc.

But now, Zylynsky not only continues to insist on a no-fly zone NATO has said is not an option because of nuclear war, Zylynsky told NATO/Europe/US that every casualty going forward is on their hands because of their refusal on a no-fly zone. I'd think that risks his alienating his allies. It seems quite ill-advised as an attack. On a related topic though, why doesn't supplying aircraft seem more discussed?

Zelensky, not “Zylynsky”.

No, there is no logical reason to believe that Zelensky’s criticisms will have a chilling effect on allies.

He is literally fighting for the survival of his country and the it’s citizens. His emotions are completely understandable.

 

[lwf]

This amounts to saying the West will use Ukrainians as cannon-fodder. The West has already said it won't fight for Ukraine.
But this goal of encouraging the Ukrainians to fight just means exploiting them -- ie. fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian, while everybody else applauds.

The west has a thing about people fighting a larger foe for their very freedom. How can you not applaud the heroism? It's unfortunate that Russia decided to make Ukraine an example of it's willingness and intention to conquer its neighbors and expand its borders. If only Ukraine had been a NATO member. A lesson for other non-NATO members in Europe. They better get on it.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

This amounts to saying the West will use Ukrainians as cannon-fodder. The West has already said it won't fight for Ukraine.
But this goal of encouraging the Ukrainians to fight just means exploiting them -- ie. fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian, while everybody else applauds.

More garbage from team Putin.

 

[The AntiDonald]

Zelenksy would seem to have no choice, but to ratchet-up his requests, since his people are dying.



Discussed by whom?

Poland has been supplying limited aircraft. Supposedly the same type the Ukrainians have been flying. Pilots are traveling to the border to pick them up. Unfortunately, they are very limited.

 

[tacomancer]

How does asking NATO to destroy the world in nuclear war and telling them they are responsible like Putin for Ukranians killed if they don't helping?

There are multiple schools of thought about how far we can go with Putin.