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Is Venezuela's Chavez a threat to American National Security?

Is Venezuela's Chavez a threat to American National Security?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 11.4%
  • No

    Votes: 38 86.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 1 2.3%

  • Total voters
    44
LOL! Thinking like that got a lot of people fragged in Nam...

Really? How very interesting - please link some of these people who were ordered to go to Vietnam, then refused, and then fragged officers in Vietnam who instead insisted they go to Vietnam?


Ohhh.... wait.... I'm sorry, I forgot. You were spouting out your ass. My bad :).


In today's infantry, however, disobeying legal orders get's your butt stomped on by senior leadership if you are lucky, and by your NCO's if you are not. Sudden, swift, unexpected buttstock to the face has an amazing ability to cure nascent and developing rebelliousness.
 
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It is EVERY humans duty to act within their conscience ...

Sure. So long as you are willing to accept that the consequences for doing so inhabit the full range up to and including your death.
 
Sure. So long as you are willing to accept that the consequences for doing so inhabit the full range up to and including your death.

Absolutely, which means that if your in an unjust war, you SHOULD resist, and you SHOULD frag, and you SHOULD avoid punishment and resist.
 
No doubt! Never trust a guy who would send tens of millions of gallons of free home heating oil to thousands of poor families freezing across the northern tier of the USA. He's obviously up to something shifty there...

that seemed more pr propaganda than anything else.
 
Incidentally, I tried to look up that free heating oil. I didn't find anything on that
Wow! Not good with Google either...

Free Heating Oil for Needy U.S. Families

...though I did find this:
More partisan and poorly thought through analysis. The Syrian government will have access to diesel under any circumstances. If there is a drop of it even near the country, they will have it. The EU/US boycotts have not stalled Assad. They have instead stalled ordinary Syrians by crippling transportation and agriculture, severely damaging the well-being of those we say we are trying to protect. Syrian farmers have had to resort to using horses and mules. Crops are scarce and very expensive. This is "help"? The growing humanitarian crisis in Syria is what Venezuela, Algeria, and a handful of other countries are responding to.
 
Really? How very interesting - please link some of these people who were ordered to go to Vietnam, then refused, and then fragged officers in Vietnam who instead insisted they go to Vietnam?
Reading difficulties? The subject from the outset has been mutiny by the troops. Fragging would be a pretty clear example of mutiny by the troops. And thinking such as that outlined in your earlier post is exactly the sort that got boneheads taken out back then by the dozens.
 
that seemed more pr propaganda than anything else.
You could say the same for very nearly every humanitarian relief program on earth. There are not many who do good works in the dark.

Still one of our posters wasn't able to learn of this humanitarian relief effort even when deliberately looking for it. If all that Chavez had intended was to generate favorable propaganda, he apparently didn't do a very good job of it. Those hundreds of thousands of low-income Americans still had heating oil through the long cold winter, though...
 
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What about them thar mexican'ts? Why they're all illegal immigrants looking to subvert America I tellz you!

"All babies are Bhudda babies," - Joseph Campbell
 
Reading difficulties? The subject from the outset has been mutiny by the troops.

Yes, specifically the subject was mutiny by troops after being ordered to go to war in a particular country. You then suggested that the attitude that those who commit mutiny get arrested or shot (we have a civilian rule over the military, and that's important) led to multiple cases of Fragging in Vietnam. Apparently you are aware of multiple fragging occurances that managed to take place both in Vietnam and Stateside at the same time.

That, or, as I stated, you were talking out your ass. :)
 
Absolutely, which means that if your in an unjust war, you SHOULD resist, and you SHOULD frag, and you SHOULD avoid punishment and resist.

fantastic. currently many people in government allow the committance of murder of unborn children, and many others actually willfully engage in such acts! As someone duty bound to protect others, obviously I should kill these doctors and the evil politicians who enable them!

Oh. Wait. Your logic is idiotic. My bad :).
 
More partisan and poorly thought through analysis. The Syrian government will have access to diesel under any circumstances. If there is a drop of it even near the country, they will have it. The EU/US boycotts have not stalled Assad. They have instead stalled ordinary Syrians by crippling transportation and agriculture, severely damaging the well-being of those we say we are trying to protect. Syrian farmers have had to resort to using horses and mules. Crops are scarce and very expensive. This is "help"? The growing humanitarian crisis in Syria is what Venezuela, Algeria, and a handful of other countries are responding to.

:lamo oh man, :lol: this is why I don't like to talk foreign policy here :)
 
Do you agree with Romney that Chavez poses a direct national security threat to the U.S.A, or do you think this is nothing more than fear mongering against socialism in Latin America that shouldn't be taken so seriously?

Seeing how he's dying of terminal cancer...

shoulder_shrug.jpg
 
Yes, specifically the subject was mutiny by troops after being ordered to go to war in a particular country. You then suggested that the attitude that those who commit mutiny get arrested or shot (we have a civilian rule over the military, and that's important) led to multiple cases of Fragging in Vietnam. Apparently you are aware of multiple fragging occurances that managed to take place both in Vietnam and Stateside at the same time. That, or, as I stated, you were talking out your ass. :)
Pretzel logic, turned and twisted in a vain attempt to create a case where you have none. What I quite correctly stated is that attitudes like yours -- unthinking, hard-ass, robotic, order-following, full speed ahead, damn-the-torpedos foolishness -- got a good number of people fragged in Viet Nam. Did you want to dispute that fact or just continue to haplessly cough and sputter to no particular end at all?
 
:lamo oh man, :lol: this is why I don't like to talk foreign policy here :)
Those who aren't capable of better than cowboys-and-indians level thinking about it should probably refrain from discussing foreign policy in any venue. It can't possibly go well.
 
I'd NOT agree with this gut-less, spine-less idiot on anything.
Just my emotional feelings; intellectually - much the same...
 
You could say the same for very nearly every humanitarian relief program on earth. There are not many who do good works in the dark.

not necessarily disagreeing, but your earlier comment seemed to completely ignore the PR edge to the act
 
Mitt Romney: Venezuela

Do you agree with Romney that Chavez poses a direct national security threat to the U.S.A, or do you think this is nothing more than fear mongering against socialism in Latin America that shouldn't be taken so seriously?

This story has been posted elsewhere on this forum but i am seeking to establish consensus amongst American users on DP through the use of a poll, to see if they agree or disagree with Mitt.


It's exactly the opposite. The USA is a threat to Venezuela's National security. OIL. Iraq. Libya. Who's gonna be the next OILY domino?
 
:lamo oh man, :lol: this is why I don't like to talk foreign policy here :)


You might check the label on your hair oil. Too much falafa can cause shiite for brains.
 
No he is not a threat to our national security. Nor is he a threat to anyone's national security. He is simply a socialist, and socialists piss off a lot of rich foreign private investors.
 
It's exactly the opposite. The USA is a threat to Venezuela's National security. OIL. Iraq. Libya. Who's gonna be the next OILY domino?


It's totally un-American for leaders of other nations to deny us oil. We just can't allow them to manipulate oil prices.

Iran is next.
 
It's exactly the opposite. The USA is a threat to Venezuela's National security. OIL. Iraq. Libya. Who's gonna be the next OILY domino?

Targetting oil tyrants is smart. Those countries have the resources to nation-build themselves. We can do the other dictators after. And you know Iran is next. I, for one, cannot wait to see what Iranians do with a free country. We're talkin' Asian Tiger development.
 
If we overthrow Chavez, who can we replace him with?

A huge threat? No. A minor threat? Yes. Any anti-American regime in close proximity to the US is a threat to some extent. Remember the Cuban missle crisis? Ok, we we're born yet but remember learning about it. ;). Today's missle threat isn't Soviet but it might be Iranian or North Korean. Is Chavez likely to allow Venusuela to be used as a forward base for an attack on America? No. Is it possible? Yeah.
 
A huge threat? No. A minor threat? Yes. Any anti-American regime in close proximity to the US is a threat to some extent. Remember the Cuban missle crisis? Ok, we we're born yet but remember learning about it. ;). Today's missle threat isn't Soviet but it might be Iranian or North Korean. Is Chavez likely to allow Venusuela to be used as a forward base for an attack on America? No. Is it possible? Yeah.

Is it possible we all might die tomorrow? Yes. Is it likely no.

Lets be realistic.
 
Those who aren't capable of better than cowboys-and-indians level thinking about it should probably refrain from discussing foreign policy in any venue. It can't possibly go well.

:) let's break down what you said.

CardinalFang said:
The Syrian government will have access to diesel under any circumstances

This is incorrect for two reasons:

1. There are many, obvious sets of black swan circumstances in which the Syrian government will not have access to diesel. There are several other more likely sets of circumstances in which the Syrian government loses its' access to diesel. As the Syrian governments' area of control constricts, it is less and less capable of attaining resources either domestically or internationally.

2. The statement seems to imply that the Syrian government will, even in circumstances where it has access to diesel, have access to all the diesel it needs. This is exceedingly unlikely. The Syrian military has been actively deployed now for a year and a half, and the logistical system supporting them was not particularly world-class to begin with. Combined with the disruption of local production, the absence of foreign major suppliers (such as Chavez) would make it very likely that the Syrian regime would quickly find it's maneuver ability severely degraded, thus negating a key center of gravity for Syrian forces. BMP's without gas are useless outside of the max effective range of their mounted-guns.

If there is a drop of it even near the country, they will have it

This is not true for three reasons:

1. The Syrian government does not control the entirety of Syria, but is rather currently engaged in a civil war.

2. The Syrian government would have to mount an invasion of any territories "near" the country, which it is exceedingly unlikely to do, given the immediate and overwhelming response this would provoke. China and Russia will not be able to save Assad from a US response should it invade NATO-ally Turkey.

3. In times of turmoil civilian providers of goods inevitably hoard, and are to greater or lesser extents inevitably successful at it.

The EU/US boycotts have not stalled Assad

No, and they were always unlikely to. They have degraded Assads' capabilities, which they were likely to do.

However, the effect is mitigated because those who see the benefit in enabling Assads' regime (such as Russia, Iran, and yes, Hugo Chavez) to continue have helped to prop him up.

They have instead stalled ordinary Syrians by crippling transportation and agriculture, severely damaging the well-being of those we say we are trying to protect.

EXCEPT THAT YOU JUST SAID THAT IF THERE WAS A DROP OF DIESEL IN THE COUNTRY, ASSADS' FORCES WOULD SEIZE IT. :lamo

:lol:you don't even know what you are saying. :)
 
Is it possible we all might die tomorrow? Yes. Is it likely no.

Lets be realistic.

Let's do be realistic. realistically, Chavez is a threat force. Realistically, he is unlikely to attack the continental United States or serve as the launching pad for a third-party nation state attack on the United States. Realistically, he is likely willing to serve as the launching pad for a third-party non nation state attack on the United States.
 
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