• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is ubridled immigration really good for the UK??

And guess what.. they do if caught and convicted.

Great! I hope they get life!
It is illegal in pretty much all Muslim countries, but killing off such traditions is pretty hard.
Pretty much all? Let's center out those which still allow it or look the other way and publicize this barbarity!
It took 100 years from the banning of witch burnings in Europe and America before the practice died out,

Excuse me? They were burning witches in America for 100 years? Who told you that?
and you expect that honor killings, legal until half a century or so ago, will disappear over night? Get real for **** sake.

Where did I say they would disappear over night? Do you understand how the quote system works and how to respond directly to quotes? Perhaps you should go to the Help section.

But we get it, you hate Muslims and Islam.. and blame them for all the ills of the world.

"We" get it? Who is 'we'?

And where did I say I hated Muslims or blamed them for all the ills of the world? Please go to more than one help section, if they have them available in your EU community..
 
LOL defending wife killers now?

Nothing I wrote amounts to a defense of sati, in any sense. What I did was challenge your claim that 5000 such incidents occur per year, in modern india, despite 1) no such numbers being reflected in modern data and 2) such a high incidence not even occurring under British rule.

But you trying to purposely confuse such things tends to be your MO


It is not rare, it is just not classified as Sati in the rural areas and police protect the killers. There were over 8000 Sati killings reported in 2010....

Then show us some data

Never claimed that. I said that the highest incidents occur in India, which is true.

No, you specifically claimed the hindu population in india. But the two problems with this, according to YOUR OWN RESOURCES, is that 1) incidents in india are on par with incidents in Pakistan, and 2) Pakistan has a tenth of the population of India


I know you hate Muslims, but islam has nothing to do with honour killings.

I probably know more people who practice islam than you and likely have close relationships with such people, as well. But let's face it, all you're going to have in this discussion is baseless personal attacks, because you can't even manage providing a relevant citation to anything you claim


It is not a ****ing claim, it is a fact.

from your link: "In 2010, 8391 dowry death cases were reported across India, meaning a bride was burned every 90 minutes"

1) that doesn't even make sense. Not all forms of Dowry killing are done through burning.

2) Again, no one is claiming things like Dowry death are not an issue in India (I own more books on the subject than you're likely to even hear about), what was challanged was your claim that the incidents of such among the Hindu population of India is the highest rate of occurence

Nothing in your link addresses this. For it to address this, it would need to speak to such incidents within that population, in relation to others. You presented a source above that did this for India and Pakistan, but when we break down population numbers, there was a ten fold higher rate of incidences in Pakistan

Hence, your only source on the issue directly disproved your claim. But you being unable to grasp that isn't surprising


PS And you don't even know what SATI is. Sati concerns emulation on a funeral pye.
 
Last edited:
Stop being blind to the facts. Honor killings are not exclusive to Islam

No one claimed it was exclusive to islam. What was challenged was your claim that the highest rate of incidents occur among the hindu population of India. So far, the only numbers you presented on the issue disprove that
 
G
Excuse me? They were burning witches in America for 100 years? Who told you that?

Eh what the hell are you trying to pull.. I said it took about 100 years from the banning of witch burnings/killings till the practice finally died out. And yes there were many witch killings in the US in the 1600s and early 1700s.. or dont you believe in history now?

And where did I say I hated Muslims or blamed them for all the ills of the world? Please go to more than one help section, if they have them available in your EU community..

In pretty much every post you make about Islam and Muslims.. you hardly embrace them do you...
 
Eh what the hell are you trying to pull.. I said it took about 100 years from the banning of witch burnings/killings till the practice finally died out. And yes there were many witch killings in the US in the 1600s and early 1700s.. or dont you believe in history now?

actually I think common consensus is that the rate of occurrence was much higher in Europe where you had large govt institutions leveraging the practice (spanish inquisition), as opposed to the US, which was comprised of rarer, but more highly publicized incidences (like the salem witch trials)

But it's just something I read about in passing, and am not familiar with the data
 
Nothing I wrote amounts to a defense of sati, in any sense. What I did was challenge your claim that 5000 such incidents occur per year, in modern india, despite 1) no such numbers being reflected in modern data and 2) such a high incidence not even occurring under British rule.

But you trying to purposely confuse such things tends to be your MO

The only one trying to deflect is you.

No, you specifically claimed the hindu population in india. But the two problems with this, according to YOUR OWN RESOURCES, is that 1) incidents in india are on par with incidents in Pakistan, and 2) Pakistan has a tenth of the population of India

And so what? Deflecting again I see. The very fact that you are trying to pin every honour killing and bridal killing in India on the Muslim population is frankly disgusting.

I probably know more people who practice islam than you and likely have close relationships with such people, as well. But let's face it, all you're going to have in this discussion is baseless personal attacks, because you can't even manage providing a relevant citation to anything you claim

You do.. so how long have you lived among Muslims... 15 or more years.. because that I what I did.

from your link: "In 2010, 8391 dowry death cases were reported across India, meaning a bride was burned every 90 minutes"

1) that doesn't even make sense. Not all forms of Dowry killing are done through burning.

So if a bride is not burned then it is not an honour killing in your mind? If she is shot in the head or driven over by a car.. then it is not an honour killing? Or if a pot of boiling oil is dropped on her in the kitchen, then it is just a tragic accident and no need for an investigation or charges right?

2) Again, no one is claiming things like Dowry death are not an issue in India (I own more books on the subject than you're likely to even hear about), what was challanged was your claim that the incidents of such among the Hindu population of India is the highest rate of occurence

And considering that most of the population of India is Hindu, and this happens all over the country, then yes. I see what you are trying to do and it aint gonna work. Stop defending this barbaric tradition and using honour killings as an only Muslim thing.. it is not, and never has been. It is tribal and based on traditions and not on Islam.

Nothing in your link addresses this. For it to address this, it would need to speak to such incidents within that population, in relation to others. You presented a source above that did this for India and Pakistan, but when we break down population numbers, there was a ten fold higher rate of incidences in Pakistan

More deflecting. You know as well as I do, finding exact statistics is near impossible on the subject. The very fact that the Indian official statistics show 8k bridal killings a year, is in fact most likely a mere drop in the bucket. That is only reported.. and classified correctly. Add to that so called accidents and the real number is much higher.

Hence, your only source on the issue directly disproved your claim. But you being unable to grasp that isn't surprising

It does nothing of the sort.

There are reported 8k bridal killings in India a year, and it is not exclusive to the Muslim population. On top of that there are 1k or so official honour killings, which are traditional and happen in the north of the country and yes that is a Muslim part of the country. But it is not exclusive Muslim since such killings also occur among Sikhs.. but let me guess, they are also Muslim in your eyes?

And before you say that honour killings dont happen among sikhs...

BBC News - Surjit Athwal murder: Brother wants 'justice for honour killing'

PS And you don't even know what SATI is. Sati concerns emulation on a funeral pye.

You used the word, not me.
 
No one claimed it was exclusive to islam. What was challenged was your claim that the highest rate of incidents occur among the hindu population of India. So far, the only numbers you presented on the issue disprove that

They do? I dont see a religious distinction for the Indian number. All it states is 1000 in India and I pointed out that the population is highly Hindu. You are the one making a lot of assumptions by assuming that of the 1000 that most are among the Muslim minority.
 
actually I think common consensus is that the rate of occurrence was much higher in Europe where you had large govt institutions leveraging the practice (spanish inquisition), as opposed to the US, which was comprised of rarer, but more highly publicized incidences (like the salem witch trials)

But it's just something I read about in passing, and am not familiar with the data

I would claim that the level of reporting was better in Europe during those times, than in the US, which is why many witch killings were never reported.

And I just realized that this has nothing to do what so ever with immigration and the UK..
 
Eh what the hell are you trying to pull.. I said it took about 100 years from the banning of witch burnings/killings till the practice finally died out.

Doesn't that mean it took 100 years for the practice to finally die out? If so then it appears the practice was going on for 100 years, which would genuinely surprise a great many historians.
And yes there were many witch killings in the US in the 1600s and early 1700s.. or dont you believe in history now?

Okay so is it your claim that these witch burnings took 100 years to die out and these 100 years were between 1600 and 1700? Is that your 100 years?

In pretty much every post you make about Islam and Muslims.. you hardly embrace them do you...
Why should I embrace Islam or any other religion? Have you 'embraced' Islam?
 
I would claim that the level of reporting was better in Europe during those times, than in the US, which is why many witch killings were never reported. And I just realized that this has nothing to do what so ever with immigration and the UK..

So these witch burnings were occurring for 100 years but were only being reported in the superior European media? Is that your claim?

This you should have a link to.
 
You used the word, not me.

In fact that is false also. You used it here.

LOL defending wife killers now? It is not rare, it is just not classified as Sati in the rural areas and police protect the killers. There were over 8000 Sati killings reported in 2010....
 
The only one trying to deflect is you.

Of course, Pete, which is why I am able to directly address what you are posting as opposed to just tossing out accusations ...



The very fact that you are trying to pin every honour killing and bridal killing in India on the Muslim population is frankly disgusting.

I never did this



You do.. so how long have you lived among Muslims... 15 or more years.. because that I what I did.

I was engaged to a Bangladeshi girl for a number of years and still eat dinner with her and her family weekly



So if a bride is not burned then it is not an honour killing in your mind?

Again, this was never suggested. What was suggested is that the author doesn't understand the subject they are attempting to discuse because they are equating Dowry killing with wife burning ?



And considering that most of the population of India is Hindu, and this happens all over the country, then yes. I see what you are trying to do and it aint gonna work. Stop defending this barbaric tradition and using honour killings as an only Muslim thing.. it is not, and never has been. It is tribal and based on traditions and not on Islam.

1) It's rather clear I am not trying to defend anything, or that I am claiming honor killings are exclusive to islam. So I am unsure why you keep rolling out these accusation.

2) what was challenged, and that you still have not presented evidence of, is that the rate of honor killings, among the hindu population of india, is the highest rate of occurence. In fact, DATA YOU CITED actually undermines that claim

It does nothing of the sort.

You only cited one comparative source. And that put the rate of honor killing in both Pakistan and India at 1000 incidents per year. With a population disparity roughly being 10:1 in favor of the indians


There are reported 8k bridal killings in India a year, and it is not exclusive to the Muslim population.

Right, your above source makes that claim about India. What it does not do is compare that number to other demographics or national groups, which would be required to validate your claim.

Pretty simple


But it is not exclusive Muslim since such killings also occur among Sikhs.. but let me guess, they are also Muslim in your eyes?

I probably know more sihks than you, as well. So the baseless character attacks don't really accomplish much more than amuse me at how predictable you are and how pathetic your debating ability is


And before you say that honour killings dont happen among sikhs..

no one claimed this


You used the word, not me.

I thought you were talking about Sati because you mentioned honor killings while Dowry murders are usually economically driven. But you responded to my confusion by trying to present figures on dowry murders as those concerning Sati.

From this exchange it's clear one of us knows what we are talking about, the other not so much
 
They do? I dont see a religious distinction for the Indian number.

Yes, being that pakistan had a similar number and a tenth of the population ...


All it states is 1000 in India

and Pakistan ...


and I pointed out that the population is highly Hindu.

Right, with almost ten times the population of Pakistan ...


You are the one making a lot of assumptions by assuming that of the 1000 that most are among the Muslim minority.

I never made this claim ...
 
I would claim that the level of reporting was better in Europe during those times, than in the US, which is why many witch killings were never reported.

So do you have anything actually giving credence to this opinion? because, you know, in academic circles you need to support things with evidence

And I just realized that this has nothing to do what so ever with immigration and the UK..

you brought up the subject. I'm just pointing out current academic consensus doesn't agree with your interpretation
 
Back
Top Bottom