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Is ubridled immigration really good for the UK??

Which proves what? that they haven't assimilated? Again, you demonstrate a profound ignorance of life in the U.S.

I think his stance on all things involves little more than a blind hatred for anything American and saying as many absolutely stupid things as he possibly can.
 
Yeah, I think his reaction to almost everything is almost programmed. And totally predictable.
 
Yeah, I think his reaction to almost everything is almost programmed. And totally predictable.

too be fair though I have spent a lot of time in the US and I would hardly say the espanic community were assimilated! I mean they have spanish tv channels, music, etc. Even when it came to sport most Mexican-American people still supported the mexican football team.
 
hehe I agree, and your words are refreshing coming from an American.. considering how many Americans talk about Europe becoming Muslim in 20 years and all that crap.. and basing it on voodoo demographics.



Depends on many factors, but it can go either way.



Considering that the Catholic Church is already the biggest denomination with over 68 million devoted, then chances are pretty good with more Latino immigration and higher birth rates among Latinos, that this will only grow and maybe even become a majority over the next few decades.

But as you said very nicely... demographic evolutions dont follow a predictable line over the long term, so we dont really know.. but it is a good debate :)

Fist of all, I'm not an American. Secondly you are completely wrong. The idea that Roman Catholics would go from about 25% of the population to more than 50% in a few decades is pretty ridiculous.
 
Now you've moved from being ignorant about the United States to just being ridiculous. I love people who pontificate about life in the United States from places like you list as your 'location', revealing your lack of knowledge with every post. However, I do enjoy your posts. It's always fun watching someonerepeat their demonstration of their ignorance on almost a daily basis..

Not my fault that the mythical utopia that you thought the US was, does not exist. So people in general have assimilated any religious or traditional aspects of any other religion or nationality as a nation... which? Show us which?
 
Fist of all, I'm not an American. Secondly you are completely wrong. The idea that Roman Catholics would go from about 25% of the population to more than 50% in a few decades is pretty ridiculous.

You mean as ridiculous as muslims going from under 10% to be the majority in 20-30 years in Europe? but but that is what the US right constantly says :)

And it is not totally ridiculous.. it depends on immigration from Latin America and birth rates, but yes considering the xenophobic attitudes of certain aspects of American society at the moment, then the immigration from Latin America can and most likely will be hit hard.. but we shall see.
 
And I dont see a difference at all because in the so called melting pot of the US, cultures are coexisting side by side, far far far more than creating a new culture that borrows a little from each other. Lets put it this way... name one thing that the US as a whole has borrowed from another culture with in the last 200 years as their own?

St Patrick's Day? :)
 
St Patrick's Day? :)

Has been commercialized big time, and is hardly a "national" thing. For the Irish it is a day, but for the Hispanic and Asian communities?

Next you are going to tell me that Valentines day is one :)
 
Has been commercialized big time, and is hardly a "national" thing. For the Irish it is a day, but for the Hispanic and Asian communities?

Next you are going to tell me that Valentines day is one :)

St Patrick's Day is a big Irish tradition that is now a big part of US culture, Pete. You asked for an example. So what if it's commercialized? It's the American way! :D
 
Has been commercialized big time, and is hardly a "national" thing. For the Irish it is a day, but for the Hispanic and Asian communities?

Are you kidding? Everybody puts on something green, all the kiddies in school make shamrocks and leprechauns. It gets celebrated in a very American way from coast to coast. That's not even including the green beer. :lol:
 
"unbridled immigration" to the UK can only now mean immigration from within the EU as we are not allowed (under EU rules) to stop the flow of EU citizens and labour.

"Multicultural Britain" or "melting pot Britain" exists, there have been lows and there will be problems however despite this the vast majority of the UK speaks English and will continue to do so for a very long time; we also have Gaelic and Cymraeg in Scotland and Wales respectively. This means we celebrate and have adopted many parts of culture brought by immigrants - food, music, dance, literature etc but it does not mean we have abandoned our language, religion and culture for some alien culture from Africa/ Asia etc. It doesn't mean muslims are about to become 50% of our population or that Arabic is the second most spoken language in the UK.

Genetics proves that citizens of the UK are largely (but not all) immigrants at some point or have immigrant blood (Roman / Saxon / Angle / Norse etc etc) so the question of "who is British" is sometimes foolish to begin with. In recent periods - there are some important surveys - showing that while people here support the additions to British culture that immigrants have brought - mentioning "immigration" has negative connotations (how would the people who add to British culture have come otherwise though?)

Lord Ashcroft Polls - is Britain multicultural

In a poll of 1,035 minority voters completed earlier this week I found that nearly nine in ten think Britain has become a multicultural country, and a similar proportion saying this is a good thing. In a nationally representative poll conducted at the same time, 90% also said Britain was multicultural, but only 70% were in favour of this development. There was considerable variation between different kinds of people but in only one group – UKIP voters – did a majority (57%) say they were opposed to multiculturalism.

Three quarters of ethnic minority voters said that having people from a wide variety of backgrounds had strengthened British culture, though only just over half of the general population agreed. Just over half (54%) of the national sample thought immigration had been a bad thing for the country on the whole. 80% of black voters disagreed, but only 64% of those from an Asian background; only 51% of Sikhs thought immigration had generally been good for Britain.

90% of Britons felt Britain was a multicultural society - 70% feeling this was a good thing. 71% of conservative voters think multiculturalism is a good thing too.

Funny thing though - when you mention immigration or multiculture / multiculturalism in the UK - nobody thinks of the many Irish who have contributed to UK culture or the Indians (Hindu / Sikh etc), Africans, West Indians, Chinese, Jews etc etc who are here and part of our society. Mention "multiculturalism in the UK" and you get the same old rubbish about brown muslims - as if they are the only immigrants to the UK. Otherwise, most Britons have become more tolerant of immigration and immigrants - though only Greece apparently feels more hostile about immigration in Europe.
 
Hate (not really) to Bring up an UnPC issue but, immigration from WHERE also counts. Counts most perhaps.
Does the incoming group have ideals that are Different/Permanently-different than the host country and are these beliefs more intransigent.
In the case of immigration from many Islamic countries, That is the problem.

While we do have Chinatowns in NY/SF/etc .. who cares.
These people aren't trying to change the educational curriculum or other public institutions.
Don't want to change our legal system or Foreign policy.
No second gen terrorists either.
East Asians and non-Islamic South Asians are the lowest crime/highest achieving immigrants (perhaps even overall inhabitants) in the USA.
Not so with say, North Africans in France.
Islam is in large part a 'dominant gene' religion (not an absorbee) and even in moderate Muslim countries like Egypt we have seen Islam can be more important than nationalism.

Islam seems to be a special problem as Lee Kuan Yew (Singapore) and other leaders in Europe have noticed.
Let's be frank about 'the problem'.
 
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-- Does the incoming group have ideals that are Different/Permanently-different than the host country and are these beliefs more intransigent.
In the case of immigration from many Islamic countries, That is the problem --

I'll ignore the stuff about the USA as the thread title says "UK" - I accept that modern immigration from certain Islamic countries has given us problems in the last 20-30 years but there are also long standing muslim communities which have been part of the UK for over 200 years and we haven't had any problems from them.
 
Islam seems to be a special problem as Lee Kuan Yew (Singapore) and other leaders in Europe have noticed.
Let's be frank about 'the problem'.

Actually if you trace the 'genealogy' of this thread to the discussion in the thread about Banana being thrown at an Italian minister then it really isn't, at least not the problem at hand.
 
Our government has already admitted that they have lost control of our immigration figures!!

They have absolutely no idea..they have resorted to tactics such as..

Immigrants 'Go Home' Ads Spark Legal Threat

Absolutely ridiculous..

You mean that they don't know how many illegal immigrants are in the country? In Cameron's defense they do have a marked tendency to keep their heads down.
 
"unbridled immigration" to the UK can only now mean immigration from within the EU as we are not allowed (under EU rules) to stop the flow of EU citizens and labour.

"Multicultural Britain" or "melting pot Britain" exists, there have been lows and there will be problems however despite this the vast majority of the UK speaks English and will continue to do so for a very long time; we also have Gaelic and Cymraeg in Scotland and Wales respectively. This means we celebrate and have adopted many parts of culture brought by immigrants - food, music, dance, literature etc but it does not mean we have abandoned our language, religion and culture for some alien culture from Africa/ Asia etc. It doesn't mean muslims are about to become 50% of our population or that Arabic is the second most spoken language in the UK.

Genetics proves that citizens of the UK are largely (but not all) immigrants at some point or have immigrant blood (Roman / Saxon / Angle / Norse etc etc) so the question of "who is British" is sometimes foolish to begin with. In recent periods - there are some important surveys - showing that while people here support the additions to British culture that immigrants have brought - mentioning "immigration" has negative connotations (how would the people who add to British culture have come otherwise though?)

Lord Ashcroft Polls - is Britain multicultural



90% of Britons felt Britain was a multicultural society - 70% feeling this was a good thing. 71% of conservative voters think multiculturalism is a good thing too.

Funny thing though - when you mention immigration or multiculture / multiculturalism in the UK - nobody thinks of the many Irish who have contributed to UK culture or the Indians (Hindu / Sikh etc), Africans, West Indians, Chinese, Jews etc etc who are here and part of our society. Mention "multiculturalism in the UK" and you get the same old rubbish about brown muslims - as if they are the only immigrants to the UK. Otherwise, most Britons have become more tolerant of immigration and immigrants - though only Greece apparently feels more hostile about immigration in Europe.

I'm not so sure that dark age Britain is an ideal model for peaceful cultural integration :lol:
 
St Patrick's Day is a big Irish tradition that is now a big part of US culture, Pete. You asked for an example. So what if it's commercialized? It's the American way! :D

It is a religious holiday originally and still a key one in some countries, but not in the US... in the US it is commercialized to hell and an excuse to get silly drunk.. nothing more nothing less. It is no different than the Super Bowl parties or even Valentines day to be honest. Not everyone likes the Super Bowl, and not everyone celebrates Valentines day.

What I am talking about, or trying, is cultures traditions being assimilated among everyone or nearly everyone, and not just parts... it almost never happens, hence the melting pot idea is bull****. For example your Saint Patrick's day is widely celebrated yes, but far from all. Hell they celebrate it some places in Denmark, but that is just because it is an excuse to party at Irish pubs and paint stuff green.. it is hardly a cultural thing.

The closest you can come to is actually Christmas, which has been used by almost all Christian sects, but even here other ethnic groups do not celebrate it, or celebrate it at different times. For example in Spain, the big day is not the 24/25 of December but actually the 6th of January... that is when children get presents, but they do celebrate some what the 24/25th. Even the date is disputed... some celebrate it on the evening of the 24th, and others during the day of the 25th.

Each ethnic group brings its own ways/traditions and sticks with them and the integration issues come when the other ethnic groups disapprove of said ways/traditions and that is what causes conflict.

And that brings us back to the difference between multiculturalism and melting pot.. or lack of it. In the end ethnic/religious groups regardless of where, tend to stick their own and own traditions and rarely adopt other ethnic/religious groups traditions.

At best we interact in civil ways, but at worst we start to have conflicts. That is why there is constant conflicts when those ethnic/religious groups are too different from the existing populations. We saw it with the Irish because they were Catholic in the US, and the Italians because they did not speak English, Latinos because they speak Spanish and are "different", Muslims because they are not Christians and so on and so on. Hell even the conflict between black and white, Catholic vs Protestant or black and latino is linked to this ultimately. And this is regardless if it is in the US or Europe. If people are different, then it can cause problems.

So yes the melting pot is crap, .. since it is multiculturalism with another name.. and even that is crap in many ways. We are only as tolerant as long as "they" are not too different and we dont blame them for something... like they stealing our jobs, or women and so on. And any assimilation happens over many generations if at all.
 
Pete, I've lived on both sides of the Atlantic. In both Canada and the US and in several European countries, mainly France, Switzerland, Italy and Spain, where I was actually born. I'm a citizen of Canada, Spain, Italy and Switzerland. I've also spent a lot of time in the UK and Ireland. I speak 7 freaking languages. I'm telling you there is a big difference. I've tried to explain it to you, but you think it doesn't exist. Honestly, I don't know what else to tell you. I see it, I've lived it, it's real.

And St Patrick's Day is one example of how Irish culture has contributed to the US melting pot. It is not exclusively a religious holiday there, because the melting pot has altered it and made it uniquely American. It is nonetheless celebrated everywhere. With major parades all over the country. I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
 
Pete, I've lived on both sides of the Atlantic. In both Canada and the US and in several European countries, mainly France, Switzerland, Italy and Spain, where I was actually born. I'm a citizen of Canada, Spain, Italy and Switzerland. I've also spent a lot of time in the UK and Ireland. I speak 7 freaking languages. I'm telling you there is a big difference. I've tried to explain it to you, but you think it doesn't exist. Honestly, I don't know what else to tell you. I see it, I've lived it, it's real.

And St Patrick's Day is one example of how Irish culture has contributed to the US melting pot. It is not exclusively a religious holiday there, because the melting pot has altered it and made it uniquely American. It is nonetheless celebrated everywhere. With major parades all over the country. I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

I'm not terribly concerned about the cosmetic differences between 'multicultural' and 'melting pot' cultures. I'm most concerned with peaceful co-existence and I struggle to see any evidence that inter-communal friction, violence or conflict is any lower in those nation states that insist upon assimilation. Is this huge success for the melting pot model in the US translated into vastly more peaceful relations between people of different backgrounds? How do you measure such things?

I've lived in highly multicultural cities and neighbourhoods, and quite a few basically homogenous monocultural ones. The strength of cultural attachments didn't seem to me to play that great a part in defining which ones were peaceful ones to live in and which were not. The principal factors to me seemed to be levels of relative poverty and inequality.
 
I'm not terribly concerned about the cosmetic differences between 'multicultural' and 'melting pot' cultures. I'm most concerned with peaceful co-existence and I struggle to see any evidence that inter-communal friction, violence or conflict is any lower in those nation states that insist upon assimilation. Is this huge success for the melting pot model in the US translated into vastly more peaceful relations between people of different backgrounds? How do you measure such things?

That's an interesting angle and on this I agree with you. When all is said and done, peaceful co-existence is evident in both systems, . The difference ins't in the end result, it's in how best to achieve that result. I find the melting pot approach to be much more efficient in making new comers feel like they belong. Like I said earlier, in such an environment no one remains an outsider for very long. The assimilation process happens much more rapidly for most immigrants. I actually agree with Pete when he points out that the much older and much more entrenched cultural traditions of Europe make the melting pot approach darn near impossible to implement. Mass immigration is a relatively recent phenomenon in Europe and local populations are often afraid they'll lose their cultural identity to the new comers.

I've lived in highly multicultural cities and neighbourhoods, and quite a few basically homogenous monocultural ones. The strength of cultural attachments didn't seem to me to play that great a part in defining which ones were peaceful ones to live in and which were not. The principal factors to me seemed to be levels of relative poverty and inequality.

That's been my experience as well. What I do find is that multiculturalism seems to work quite well in the bigger cities and capitals of Europe, except in the poorest neighborhoods where the least integrated immigrants often tend to live. One paradox here in Switzerland is that there are actually less problems between the different co-existing ethnicities in places with the largest numbers of immigrants, than in places where their numbers are small. It seems that the more familiar people are with immigrants, the less they're prone to perceive them as any sort of threat.
 
I agree that an idea of collective identity has merits, as it allows solidarity between different kinds of people within a certain frame. But that doesn't have to be the classic national state.

Oh, I totally disagree that Europe is the most diverse continent on the planet. There is arguably much more diversity in the national state of India, or on the African continent. I guess it's only outgroup-homogeneity-bias that makes us think other continents are less diverse -- and this requires the realization that we in Europe are somehow closer to each other compared to others. When you take similarities for granted, you don't see them clearly and the remaining differences appear bigger than they actually are.

And in fact, when I look at other cultural regions/civilizations, such as the Muslim world, East Asia, sub-saharan Africa ... it seems obvious to me how similar we Europeans are to each other, compared to these other cultures and regions. We are all Western. All our national cultures are based on Greek-Roman ancient heritage, Christianity and later Enlightenment. We share the same political values since the fall of the Iron Curtain. We all watch the same movies and drink the same Coke. Considering this, the cultural differences between different EU countries seems rather superficial to me.

At least that's my impression about Germany, France, the Netherlands, Spain, Italy, UK and Poland ... but I can't imagine Romania and the Balkans are totally and fundamentally different in these regards.

So ... you think diversity is a problem when the frame transcends the national state, but you think even extreme diversity is no problem within a national state? How so? If diversity makes a European frame unfeasible, why doesn't it make a national British or Spanish identity unfeasible as well?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of replacing national or regional identities. I just don't see why adding another layer is a bad thing. I'm a proud Berlin citizen and love my home city, but this doesn't stand in the way of feeling German or European as well, for me.

There is collective nationalism in the form of what the British or the Belgians have. And where are we at now? The Scots are thinking to secede from the union, Flanders and the Wallonians are at odds with one another... and to top that all off, if the tensions between these ethnicities that do have a lot in common as well as their own unique differences, if these tensions are not enough, you also have the tensions from foreign, almost alien like societies that the immigrants from islamic and african backgrounds present.

On the matter of diversity. In the EU alone you have about 26 different languages. In Europe you have about 34-35 in total if I did a correct count. Ethnic languages of the traditional populations. In India, you don't have have as many languages, maybe 4-5 (indian/hindi, english as an import language and arabic since there is a large muslim population, persian and maybe 1 other). While you may argue that cultural differences are greater from one point in India to the other, that's because of the religious background. In the NW of India you have islamic population while in the rest you have mostly hindu and buddhist to some degree in the N and NE. And within that islamic population you got both shia and sunni.
As for Africa, I heard there are 1000 languages in Africa. It's a big continent, so it's possible. I also know that their traditional languages are mostly oral because there is no african language alphabet, so in truth, you may have 10 languages each with 100 dialects. I don't know for certain. But without an alphabet you can't develop a traditional written language.

And while you are right, as opposed to India and Africa, where you have a plurality of religions that define the population, in Europe, there are mostly 3 branches of the same Christian tradition. But look at the differences. Low crime rates. Basically no holy wars or conflicts within Europe (except you know, the 4th crusade 900 years ago and a failed invasion from Spain on England 400 years ago) when all the other regions are full of religious strife. But I am lying. There is one instance where you have religious differences in europe and that is in the Balkans in former Yugoslavia. You have islam in Bosnia & Hertzegovina and Albania + Kosovo and Orthodox in Serbia. Look how well that ended up. Anywhere you import dominant religions of conflicting backgrounds, you are bound to have problems and little benefit. And that's what we are doing in Europe with this failure of a multiculturalism program.

So I find it a blessing that our society has been so heavily shaped by our shared roman and ancient greek heritage, Christianity in all its forms, the Renaissance and later the Enlightenment, as well as the shared troubles of both WW and communism in EE.

The point I am making is this. Multiculturalism, in the correct form, has been practiced in Europe and the world since forever. You had well-off people travelling to other regions, experiences other cultures and writing, singing, storytelling about them through the filter of their own national identity. So people understood and got a feel for what the other people were in a peaceful and enhancing manner. That's multiculturalism in a real sense.
Today we are blessed with cheap travel means so that vast numbers of people can go almost anywhere on the planet. We don't need to import Japanesse civilization in our country to experience it, we can go and see the real deal in Japan. We don't need to import Iraq in a neighborhood of Stockholm, we can go to Bagdad once the americans are done bombing the entire country. We don't need to import Ethipia and create a cheap replica in an enclave of Paris or Athens when we can go there ourselves with little money and the right precautions. And come home to our friends and families and tell them of the incredible things we experienced. And that brings people together.
Needless to say, that's how it should be done in Europe. That's why I am in favor of ID-card travelling within the EU. I'm a Romanian from Transylvania, we should traditionally hate the living crap out of the hungarians for the fact they oppressed and murdered our people here

Creating what can only be described as enclaves within a city doesn't do that. It just creates divisions between people.
 
On the matter of diversity. In the EU alone you have about 26 different languages. In Europe you have about 34-35 in total if I did a correct count. Ethnic languages of the traditional populations. In India, you don't have have as many languages, maybe 4-5 (indian/hindi, english as an import language and arabic since there is a large muslim population, persian and maybe 1 other).

Not really disagreeing with your argument, I just wanted to point out that there are hundreds of different languages in the EU, not just the 35 official or semi-official languages you seem to be referring to. The UK alone has 6 (English, Welsh, Irish, Scots, Scots Gaelic, Cornish) and more if you include the Channel Islands, and those are just indigenous languages. Spain has 6 too (Castilian, Catalan, Basque, Galician, Asturian, Aragonese and a host of dialects of each). So, after 2 of the 28 countries of the EU we've already got a third of your claimed total number of languages.

You also wildly underestimate the richness of India's linguistic culture. From wiki:

The Indian census of 1961 recognised 1,652 different languages in India (including languages not native to the subcontinent). The 1991 census recognizes 1,576 classified "mother tongues"[22] The People of India (POI) project of Anthropological Survey of India reported 325 languages which are used for in-group communication by the Indian communities.SIL Ethnologue lists 415 living "Languages of India" (out of 6,912 worldwide).
 
Pete, I've lived on both sides of the Atlantic. In both Canada and the US and in several European countries, mainly France, Switzerland, Italy and Spain, where I was actually born. I'm a citizen of Canada, Spain, Italy and Switzerland. I've also spent a lot of time in the UK and Ireland. I speak 7 freaking languages. I'm telling you there is a big difference. I've tried to explain it to you, but you think it doesn't exist. Honestly, I don't know what else to tell you. I see it, I've lived it, it's real.

I have also travelled and lived around the world.. hell most of my life has been spent outside my home country. From my experience and the empirical evidence, people tend not to adopt traditions/ways of other people's in the short term and tend to find equal minded groups to live among and hang out with. At best it takes many many generations if happens at all. Are there some examples where a tradition of a minority is taken in.. sure but they are rare and far in between and hardly universal. Even Christmas or Easter is not celebrated much outside the Christian community, but is very much a stable part of society in most of the Western world. Minorities who do not share the Christian roots, do not celebrate Christmas.. sure they take the days off, but that is all it is for them.. a day or two off.

And St Patrick's Day is one example of how Irish culture has contributed to the US melting pot. It is not exclusively a religious holiday there, because the melting pot has altered it and made it uniquely American. It is nonetheless celebrated everywhere. With major parades all over the country. I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

I dont disagree about the parades all over the country.. but that has more to do with how the Irish population (as one of the only ones) has spread across the country from its original roots in the North East. Look at the maps I provided, and compare them to other groups .. like the Chinese or even Danes. But where as the Irish see it as a religious holiday, most others see it as an opportunity to have a day off and get drunk and act stupid and paint stuff green.. that is not "culture", and that is not assimilation in my book.. that is exploitation and no different than taking a Monday off work because you are too hungover :) The day St. Patricks day becomes an official holiday then we can talk.. :)

But it brings me back to my point.. the "melting pot" is a myth on so many fronts, and most of it is actually multiculturalism. In reality a true "melting pot" happens over many many many generations and very slowly .. it does not happen overnight. Everything else is just multiculturalism, where minorities traditions, language and ways are accepted by the majority local population... but the more alien these minorities are, the bigger the chance of a clash.
 
Not really disagreeing with your argument, I just wanted to point out that there are hundreds of different languages in the EU, not just the 35 official or semi-official languages you seem to be referring to. The UK alone has 6 (English, Welsh, Irish, Scots, Scots Gaelic, Cornish) and more if you include the Channel Islands, and those are just indigenous languages. Spain has 6 too (Castilian, Catalan, Basque, Galician, Asturian, Aragonese and a host of dialects of each). So, after 2 of the 28 countries of the EU we've already got a third of your claimed total number of languages.

You also wildly underestimate the richness of India's linguistic culture. From wiki:

Right, I was really going for official languages...28 EU countries, Germany and Austria speak just German, 27 languages. I am wrong ofc to not include the ones you pointed out. But I was really just going for the "big" languages of each country.

I am also wrong on the count of India, but again, I was counting mostly popular languages and to my knowledge those are the hindi, persian (iranian), arabic and English (as an imported language). I may be wrong... if you have an in-depth link to the linguistics of india I would love it. But not wikipedia, i mean, you know, a bit professional than that.
 
Right, I was really going for official languages...28 EU countries, Germany and Austria speak just German, 27 languages. I am wrong ofc to not include the ones you pointed out. But I was really just going for the "big" languages of each country.
Well, you were making the reference in relation to the culutral diversity of the continent. In doing that it makes far more sense to refer to how diverse the people of Europe are rather than how diverse the bureaucracy of the EU is.

I am also wrong on the count of India, but again, I was counting mostly popular languages and to my knowledge those are the hindi, persian (iranian), arabic and English (as an imported language). I may be wrong... if you have an in-depth link to the linguistics of india I would love it. But not wikipedia, i mean, you know, a bit professional than that.
The wiki data was drawn from the Indian government census data. Check that out here. You'll see that there are 29 languages with over 1 million native speakers, and btw, that 29 does not include Persian or Arabic. As far as I'm aware, neither of those two languages are official or commonly-used languages in India. Hindi, Bengali, Telugu and Marathi are the four most frequently spoken tongues.
 
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