Is This The End? Trump Suborned Perjury With Michael Cohen's Testimony to Congress

[GDViking]

If things get bad enough regarding revelations about Trump’s criminality, the GOP will have no choice but to convict.

That or they can continue to have their wagons hitched to a aircraft carrier anchor...

 

[PoliSciXtina]

The Republicans of today are not the Republicans of the 70's. It's far more a hyperpartisan, for the Party sort of thing now. I don't think you'll get a conviction with just perjury, they're going to have to find some more substantial crimes.

I do believe there are other crimes. I think mueller is gathering enough for the senate to convict. Just my opinion. I could be wrong. I never expected impeachment hearings to actually happen but I’m changing my tune on that lately. I think there’s a very real possibility that trump will be impeached / removed or resign.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dittohead not!]

That’s what I was saying about tapes. If there is something there from trump on the tapes directing Cohen to lie, then that is obstruction right there. IMO I don’t think those tapes exist. Time will tell of course.

If there is a tape, will there also be an 18 minute gap?

 

[GDViking]

I do believe there are other crimes. I think mueller is gathering enough for the senate to convict. Just my opinion. I could be wrong. I never expected impeachment hearings to actually happen but I’m changing my tune on that lately. I think there’s a very real possibility that trump will be impeached / removed or resign.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree, the evidence of corruption is piling up so deep that not impeaching will appear not only to be dereliction of duty, but to be acting against the best interests of America...

 

[bongsaway]

Trump does indeed lie but to convict someone of this type of thing they are going to need more evidence than just Cohens comments.

I absolutely agree. I for one and looking forward to his appearance in front of congress next month. Should be interesting. We'll know how serious trump thinks it is by the tone of his tweets as that day draws closer.

 

[PoliSciXtina]

I agree, the evidence of corruption is piling up so deep that not impeaching will appear not only to be dereliction of duty, but to be acting against the best interests of America...

Exactly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mach]

If the alleged business relationship was legal and occurred during the campaign then how does that indicate Trump had violated his oath of office? I doubt that perjury (even if presented as obstruction of justice) alone will be the magic crime which gets a sitting POTUS impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate. Of course, only time will tell what Mueller comes up with, but if that (lying about a business deal being discussed during the campaign) is the most serious offense found I can't see it resulting in removal of Trump from office.

First, it could be suborning perjury, obstruction, and possibly conspiracy if there was a coordinated effort to commit these crimes (which seems necessary but you never know).
Clinton's lie was about a BJ in the oval office...not really the same sort of thing they are covering up is it?

In contrast, this the Special Counsel investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election and possible ties to the Trump campaign
That would look really bad Trump is obstructing his Trump Tower Moscow being discovered, because it fits the broader narrative...Trump furthering the Russian agenda inexplicably, all the cover-up and obstruction to-date, etc.
The senate would have a mountain of evidence pouring down on it, all fitting the same narrative. No, I think if this made it to Senate impeachment hearings, it would be overwhelming.

Of course, anything can happen, Trump could fire everyone and the Senate could cheer him on...but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[NebraskaFtball]

Here’s the thing, yes it is really bad for Trump IF they can prove Cohen’s claims to be true. Remember this is Cohen who has already lied many times and Mueller is not going to go by Cohens comments alone. Now if Cohen has tapes of it that is another story but I’m thinking not. Right now this is Cohens word against trump and as much as I dispise Trump, Cohens word right now is **** without any evidence.

According to the reporting, these facts became known NOT from Cohen, but from other witnesses in the Trump Organization, along with corroborating documents such as emails and text messages. And it was only after it was learned by the SCO from these other sources, did they approach Cohen, who then confirmed the accuracy of Trump directing him to lie to Congress.

I guess time will tell here, but if history is a judge of what’s to come, I’d say Trump may be rightfully cooked here. I mean, does anyone really put it past Trump to encourage others to lie on his behalf? He is arguably the most dishonest man to ever hold national public office.

 

[NebraskaFtball]

If none of those emails, texts or documents are from trump himself directing Cohen to lie, they don’t have trump on obstruction. IMO I don’t think they have anything from trump. Do I personally believe Cohen on this? Yes. Will it stand up in court? Not on Cohens comments alone.

That is not true from a legal standpoint. Circumstantial evidence from a variety of sources are equally as valuable in determining guilt in court.

 

[NebraskaFtball]

IF (a big if) then yes the house will have no choice but to impeach and the senate will have no choice but to convict. But a huge IF. Has any other source confirmed this news? I can’t find it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not yet that I am aware of. But the House Intelligence Committee and the House Judiciary Committee are both opening investigations here. I’d be surprised if the Senate Intelligence Committee didn’t follow suit.

 

[ttwtt78640]

First, it could be suborning perjury, obstruction, and possibly conspiracy if there was a coordinated effort to commit these crimes (which seems necessary but you never know).
Clinton's lie was about a BJ in the oval office...not really the same sort of thing they are covering up is it?

In contrast, this the Special Counsel investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election and possible ties to the Trump campaign
That would look really bad Trump is obstructing his Trump Tower Moscow being discovered, because it fits the broader narrative...Trump furthering the Russian agenda inexplicably, all the cover-up and obstruction to-date, etc.
The senate would have a mountain of evidence pouring down on it, all fitting the same narrative. No, I think if this made it to Senate impeachment hearings, it would be overwhelming.

Of course, anything can happen, Trump could fire everyone and the Senate could cheer him on...but I wouldn't bet on it.

I agree that if Mueller can show Trump's dealings with some Russians to be of a criminal nature that impeachment is likely. If the only crime is not having been honest about otherwise legal dealings with some Russians then conviction by the Senate is not as likely.

 

[NebraskaFtball]

If the alleged business relationship was legal and occurred during the campaign then how does that indicate Trump had violated his oath of office? I doubt that perjury (even if presented as obstruction of justice) alone will be the magic crime which gets a sitting POTUS impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate. Of course, only time will tell what Mueller comes up with, but if that (lying about a business deal being discussed during the campaign) is the most serious offense found I can't see it resulting in removal of Trump from office.

The claim is that Trump directed Cohen to lie to Congress after he was already President, when Cohen gave testimony to Congress. A crime Cohen already plead guilty to. And if true, a crime Trump would also be guilty of according to the statutes.

 

[NebraskaFtball]

The Republicans of today are not the Republicans of the 70's. It's far more a hyperpartisan, for the Party sort of thing now. I don't think you'll get a conviction with just perjury, they're going to have to find some more substantial crimes.

Just for clarity, the alleged crime is not perjury. It is obstruction of justice. And there are 14 current GOP Senators who believed Clinton should have been removed from office for this same crime.

 

[Deuce]

If the alleged business relationship was legal and occurred during the campaign then how does that indicate Trump had violated his oath of office? I doubt that perjury (even if presented as obstruction of justice) alone will be the magic crime which gets a sitting POTUS impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate. Of course, only time will tell what Mueller comes up with, but if that (lying about a business deal being discussed during the campaign) is the most serious offense found I can't see it resulting in removal of Trump from office.

Ask Nixon

 

[ttwtt78640]

The claim is that Trump directed Cohen to lie to Congress after he was already President, when Cohen gave testimony to Congress. A crime Cohen already plead guilty to. And if true, a crime Trump would also be guilty of according to the statutes.

The testimony of a convicted liar (seeking a better sentencing deal?) is not vey strong evidence. If corroborated by other sources and documents then it is much better evidence, yet if the actions being covered up are not in and of themselves criminal (e.g. negotiating a business deal before being elected POTUS) then I don't see conviction (of an impeachable offense) as likely.

 

[jnug]

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jasonleopold/trump-russia-cohen-moscow-tower-mueller-investigation





Reporting done by renowned investigative journalist Jason Leopold informs us that Donald Trump personally instructed Cohen to lie to Congress. And this is not just a he said-he said situation. There is corroborating evidence that the SCO possesses that back up and confirm this to be the case. Trump sought to have Cohen suborn perjury in order to obscure his involvement with Russia.

According to Bill Barr, who will likely be the next AG, any effort by a President to suborn perjury is absolutely Obstruction of Justice, as stated in his confirmation hearing.



This is bad. Really, really bad for Trump and his children. It appears as if not only Trump Sr. has committed a High Crime and broken the oath of office, but his adult children are also in serious legal jeopardy as well.

So to all of you Trump supporters, do you care that Trump obstructed justice and ordered his personal attorney to lie to Congress? Is it starting to sink in yet just how much trouble Trump is in? Or how corrupt this man truly is to his core?

And on the heels of this report, the Democratic-led House via the Intelligence Committee and the Judiciary Committee are both launching investigations into this aspect of these revelations. With Mr. Cohen set to publicly testify February 7th, the stakes are as high as ever now for the Criminal-in-Chief.

I would say it is very hard to see how Trump gets himself reelected in 2020. Like I said in other threads, losing the House meant he would get punched in the mouth every day between now and 2020, deservedly so.

If "the end" means Impeached and Removed, depends on a number of factors that have nothing to do with evidence. But 2020 is hard to see under these circumstances. His base is not growing. If anything its going backwards and I don't see Independents and Dems allowing another 2016 to happen.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Ask Nixon

He is not talking much lately.

 

[NebraskaFtball]

The testimony of a convicted liar (seeking a better sentencing deal?) is not vey strong evidence. If corroborated by other sources and documents then it is much better evidence, yet if the actions being covered up are not in and of themselves criminal (e.g. negotiating a business deal before being elected POTUS) then I don't see conviction (of an impeachable offense) as likely.

No doubt the words of Cohen are insufficient here. Corroboration is necessary.

But I disagree regarding the business deal and the act occurring before being in office. That is irrelevant in the legal aspect of the crime of obstruction by suborning perjury before Congress. It’s not the crime, it’s the cover-up, so to speak.

 

[Ikari]

Just for clarity, the alleged crime is not perjury. It is obstruction of justice. And there are 14 current GOP Senators who believed Clinton should have been removed from office for this same crime.

Good ol' slick willy.

But yeah...consistency ain't the hallmark of the Partisan Party Player. Those 14 senators would flip their script for an R.

 

[Deuce]

The testimony of a convicted liar (seeking a better sentencing deal?) is not vey strong evidence. If corroborated by other sources and documents then it is much better evidence, yet if the actions being covered up are not in and of themselves criminal (e.g. negotiating a business deal before being elected POTUS) then I don't see conviction (of an impeachable offense) as likely.

It's an impeachable offense, clear as day. Unquestionably.

Now, whether the Republicans give a **** is an entirely different question. They're not above openly backing a criminal president.

 

[NebraskaFtball]

I would say it is very hard to see how Trump gets himself reelected in 2020. Like I said in other threads, losing the House meant he would get punched in the mouth every day between now and 2020, deservedly so.

If "the end" means Impeached and Removed, depends on a number of factors that have nothing to do with evidence. But 2020 is hard to see under these circumstances. His base is not growing. If anything its going backwards and I don't see Independents and Dems allowing another 2016 to happen.

All fair points. I have never personally believed Impeachment was a realistic possibility. And 2020 would be the opportunity to remove this stain from our collective memories. But things are changing potentially. If the trajectory continues to get worse and worse for Trump, at some point the GOP will evaluate its Congressional electoral chances for 2020 and may have no choice but to cut bait. If they see Trump, even with his vocal minority base, as more of an albatross than a boon, all bets may be off.

 

[calamity]

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jasonleopold/trump-russia-cohen-moscow-tower-mueller-investigation





Reporting done by renowned investigative journalist Jason Leopold informs us that Donald Trump personally instructed Cohen to lie to Congress. And this is not just a he said-he said situation. There is corroborating evidence that the SCO possesses that back up and confirm this to be the case. Trump sought to have Cohen suborn perjury in order to obscure his involvement with Russia.

According to Bill Barr, who will likely be the next AG, any effort by a President to suborn perjury is absolutely Obstruction of Justice, as stated in his confirmation hearing.



This is bad. Really, really bad for Trump and his children. It appears as if not only Trump Sr. has committed a High Crime and broken the oath of office, but his adult children are also in serious legal jeopardy as well.

So to all of you Trump supporters, do you care that Trump obstructed justice and ordered his personal attorney to lie to Congress? Is it starting to sink in yet just how much trouble Trump is in? Or how corrupt this man truly is to his core?

And on the heels of this report, the Democratic-led House via the Intelligence Committee and the Judiciary Committee are both launching investigations into this aspect of these revelations. With Mr. Cohen set to publicly testify February 7th, the stakes are as high as ever now for the Criminal-in-Chief.

Impeachment talk grows louder after report Trump told Cohen to lie to Congress

 

[ttwtt78640]

No doubt the words of Cohen are insufficient here. Corroboration is necessary.

But I disagree regarding the business deal and the act occurring before being in office. That is irrelevant in the legal aspect of the crime of obstruction by suborning perjury before Congress. It’s not the crime, it’s the cover-up, so to speak.

IMHO, it's both - the cover up must be of a crime (not the only crime).

 

[Praxas]

That is not true from a legal standpoint. Circumstantial evidence from a variety of sources are equally as valuable in determining guilt in court.

I said it wouldn't stand from Cohen's comments ALONE. Of course if there are other sources, that may play into it. However, if those sources prove to be like Cohen where they lied at one point and time those comments won't mean squat for an obstruction charge.

 

[NebraskaFtball]

Good ol' slick willy.

But yeah...consistency ain't the hallmark of the Partisan Party Player. Those 14 senators would flip their script for an R.

Very true. But that hypocrisy would be used as a cudgel to beat them over the heads with for years to come.