Is this supporting terrorism?

[tecoyah]

Try not to consider the states involved....only the actions.

"ABC News Exclusive: The Secret War Against Iran

April 03, 2007 5:25 PM

Brian Ross and Christopher Isham Report:

Iran_militant_group_nr A Pakistani tribal militant group responsible for a series of deadly guerrilla raids inside Iran has been secretly encouraged and advised by American officials since 2005, U.S. and Pakistani intelligence sources tell ABC News.

The group, called Jundullah, is made up of members of the Baluchi tribe and operates out of the Baluchistan province in Pakistan, just across the border from Iran.

It has taken responsibility for the deaths and kidnappings of more than a dozen Iranian soldiers and officials.

The Blotter

Might even watch the nightline report tonight

 

[rathi]

Assuming the allegations are true, it most certainly is.

 

[tecoyah]

I'm actually quite suprised at the failure of the Conservative sect at DP to react to this poll. I expected a compelling defense of these tactics....at least from NavyPride....of perhaps Stinger.

I suppose it may not be defendable.

 

[dragonslayer]

Try not to consider the states involved....only the actions.

"ABC News Exclusive: The Secret War Against Iran

April 03, 2007 5:25 PM

Brian Ross and Christopher Isham Report:

Iran_militant_group_nr A Pakistani tribal militant group responsible for a series of deadly guerrilla raids inside Iran has been secretly encouraged and advised by American officials since 2005, U.S. and Pakistani intelligence sources tell ABC News.

The group, called Jundullah, is made up of members of the Baluchi tribe and operates out of the Baluchistan province in Pakistan, just across the border from Iran.

It has taken responsibility for the deaths and kidnappings of more than a dozen Iranian soldiers and officials.

The Blotter

Might even watch the nightline report tonight

If the US government is supporting terrorist raids against Iran. We are not at war with Iran. Iran has not threatened the USA.

If the CIA is in fact supporting these attacks into Iran, then the US Government is in fact committing terrorist acts.

Man o Man, the Bush administration is really a bunch of lose Cannons. Since the Bush Government does not do anything that is not designed to make profits for it corporate masters, I wonder who is or who will make profits down the road.

Come on Navy and Stinger do you jobs. You always defend the killing and lies of the Bush Crowd. I bet you guys will say that Iran was responsible for 911, or some other incredible thing.

 

[Slainte]

If you're going to claim that supporting Hezbollah, Hamas, SCIRI, Dawa etc militants is supporting terrorism, then so is this.

If anything it's worse. Regardless of whether I like any of the above groups (and I can assure you I don't) they all have massive popular support in their respective countries. The groups America (and possibly her allies) are supporting in Iran are a mixture of mercenaries and drug runners and/or extremist Sunni nutjobs. They represent only small fragments of Iranian opinion. In that regard supporting them is counterproductive and may actually solidify Iranian ethnic groups if proof can be found that foreign aid is behind them.

Ultimately I guess you could argue it's all just war. We're trying to ***** them over and they're doing likewise with us. You can't call there groups terrorists and ours freedom fighters though.

 

[Billo_Really]

If "crime-fighters" fight crime.

And "fire-fighters" fight fire.

What do "freedom-fighters" fight?

 

[Travelsonic]

If "crime-fighters" fight crime.

And "fire-fighters" fight fire.

What do "freedom-fighters" fight?

Good ol' George Carlin. :rofl

 

[Gardener]

It is not supporting terrorism if they are military and political targets. They would have to be killing civilians in order for the actions to qualify as terrorism.

Now,mind you, I am neither endorsing nor condemning these actions, but I do object to the way people play fast and loose with the meaning of the term in order to pursue a political objective of their own.

Terrorism targets CIVILIANS and does so intentionally.

Targeting military and political figures is not terrorism, but guerilla war.

 

[Hatuey]

It is not supporting terrorism if they are military and political targets. They would have to be killing civilians in order for the actions to qualify as terrorism.

Now,mind you, I am neither endorsing nor condemning these actions, but I do object to the way people play fast and loose with the meaning of the term in order to pursue a political objective of their own.

Terrorism targets CIVILIANS and does so intentionally.

Targeting military and political figures is not terrorism, but guerilla war.

Aren't politicians civilians?

 

[Gardener]

Aren't politicians civilians?

If they are part of the government engaged in policymaking, no.

Now, I am not saying I endorse these actions, but if they are killed it would be considered a political assasination. Instead of a randomly tageted civilian, they are a specifically targeted political leader.

 

[Hatuey]

If they are part of the government engaged in policymaking, no.

Now, I am not saying I endorse these actions, but if they are killed it would be considered a political assasination. Instead of a randomly tageted civilian, they are a specifically targeted political leader.

Yes and political assassinations is what terrorists do isn't it?

 

[oldreliable67]

The info is a little sparse on this group, but based on what little I've seen and read so far, there is nothing akin to terrorism involved here. As presently described, it is guerilla warfare, nothing more, nothing less. Parallels can be drawn to US support of the various tribal elements in Afghanistan fighting the Sovients and later the Norhtern Alliance (among others) fighting the Taliban. This is all pretty tenuous, given the scarcity of info.

 

[Hatuey]

The info is a little sparse on this group, but based on what little I've seen and read so far, there is nothing akin to terrorism involved here. As presently described, it is guerilla warfare, nothing more, nothing less. Parallels can be drawn to US support of the various tribal elements in Afghanistan fighting the Sovients and later the Norhtern Alliance (among others) fighting the Taliban. This is all pretty tenuous, given the scarcity of info.

Aren't guerrillas unlawful combatants? I doubt these guys wear uniforms and identify themselves as being part of some group fighting the Iranian gov by wearing emblems or some symbol that identifies them as such.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

I'm actually quite suprised at the failure of the Conservative sect at DP to react to this poll. I expected a compelling defense of these tactics....at least from NavyPride....of perhaps Stinger.

Hell, the terrorists we're fighting now are just the same old terrorists we were paying to help us fight the Commies. Does it really surprise you that we're paying new terrorists to help us clean up our mess with the old ones?

It'll give my kids someone to fight.

Parallels can be drawn to US support of the various tribal elements in Afghanistan fighting the Soviets...

You mean like the Taliban?

 

[Gardener]

Yes and political assassinations is what terrorists do isn't it?

No. Terrorists target civilians because they are civilians and in a random enough fashion so as to instill the sort of fear in the target population where people worry they could be next.

In your scenario, as long as people aren't a member of government, they would have nothing to fear.

You know -- all I'm trying to get across here is that people should understand the meaning of the term they are bandying about, and use it correctly. When the term is expanded to cover any situation a specific person deems as serving their purpose, it ceases to be a descriptive word and becomes the stuff of propaganda, instead.

 

[DeeJayH]

Try not to consider the states involved....only the actions.

"ABC News Exclusive: The Secret War Against Iran

April 03, 2007 5:25 PM

Brian Ross and Christopher Isham Report:

Iran_militant_group_nr A Pakistani tribal militant group responsible for a series of deadly guerrilla raids inside Iran has been secretly encouraged and advised by American officials since 2005, U.S. and Pakistani intelligence sources tell ABC News.

The group, called Jundullah, is made up of members of the Baluchi tribe and operates out of the Baluchistan province in Pakistan, just across the border from Iran.

It has taken responsibility for the deaths and kidnappings of more than a dozen Iranian soldiers and officials.

The Blotter

Might even watch the nightline report tonight

If they were attacking civilians indiscriminately, it would be terrorism
since they are attacking soldiers and the politicians of their opposition, it sounds like every other war that has preceded it
legal and prudent
the enemy of my enemy is my friend, so long as they play nice

 

[DeeJayH]

Aren't guerrillas unlawful combatants? I doubt these guys wear uniforms and identify themselves as being part of some group fighting the Iranian gov by wearing emblems or some symbol that identifies them as such.

good question
and if they guerrilla were deliberately attacking civilian targets I would agree without a thought running through my mind (yes it may be shocking to some that I have thoughts)
but are guerilla tactics illegal when fighting only a countries military?

 

[DeeJayH]

Aren't politicians civilians?

politicians, while not military, are the Government, and therefor legal targets.
but that is just my feeble thoughts on the subject

 

[Kandahar]

I'm sure someone has already said this (I didn't really read through the thread), but if they aren't targeting civilians then it isn't terrorism. Just because they're violent Muslims doesn't make them terrorists.

I think there is a twinge of prejudice here. If these guerilla fighters had been, say, Russian Christians instead of Pakistani Muslims, would it ever even OCCUR to anyone to label them "terrorists"? I doubt it.

 

[Hatuey]

good question
and if they guerrilla were deliberately attacking civilian targets I would agree without a thought running through my mind (yes it may be shocking to some that I have thoughts)
but are guerilla tactics illegal when fighting only a countries military?

The reason I ask this is because I remember reading that those were one of the ways some of those groups could qualify as illegal combatants.

"He used to fight with the Taliban. He's part drug smuggler, part Taliban, part Sunni activist," said Alexis Debat, a senior fellow on counterterrorism at the Nixon Center and an ABC News consultant who recently met with Pakistani officials and tribal members.

Last month, Iranian state television broadcast what it said were confessions by those responsible for the bus attack.

They reportedly admitted to being members of Jundullah and said they had been trained for the mission at a secret location in Pakistan.

Didn't a bunch of innocent civilians die in that? If these guys are in anyway responsible for that wouldn't that make them terrorists? I'm just asking. Trying to figure out this thing.

 

[Doremus Jessup]

When the US funds them, they are called freedomists.


Sorry, just playin'. So if they're fighting military/government then it is not terrorism? What does that say about Chechnya? I thought that they were considered terrorists, or was that just the Russians that thought that?

 

[Kandahar]

When the US funds them, they are called freedomists.


Sorry, just playin'. So if they're fighting military/government then it is not terrorism? What does that say about Chechnya? I thought that they were considered terrorists, or was that just the Russians that thought that?

If a group is Muslim, non-governmental, and violent, you can pretty much count on them being labeled as terrorists, regardless of their actual goals or targets.

Some of the Chechen groups truly ARE terrorists though. Wasn't one of those groups responsible for that big hostage crisis in Moscow a couple years ago?

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Travelsonic
Good ol' George Carlin.

Busted!

It really takes the wind out of my sails when I try so hard to post the most outragous comments anyone would ever see or never expect, and there's always someone who comes along that's been where I've been and heard what I heard and isn't shocked by my post, that simply replies,

"You're doing Dice! Right?" or

"I loved Sam Kinnison too" or

yours above..."Good ol' George"

I need to find some more bait.

 

[black wolf]

Politicians and military personnel have families. The families suffer when their loved ones are killed. They are terrorized. Collaterally damaged civilians are terrorized. Pakistan is not at war with Iran. The US is not at war with Iran. Materially supporting guerillas against a foreign government within its country that you are not at war with is terrorism.