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Is there such a thing as an English ethnicity?

I've cut most of this out because it goes nowhere. One part, of course Scotland, Wales and England are well aware they are countries or Nations. However they differ is how they look at this to yourself. All of the people living in these countries are part of that country or nation.

I think it is yourself who is confused. I apologise for the person's use of Zionist rather than Israel but this seems to get the point across.



Israel's Two-Tiered Citizenship Law Bars Non-Jews From 93 Percent of Its Lands

It is Nationalism and it does create an us and them.

So, here in a thread discussing British ethnicity, you toss in a bomb from a hate site devoted to demonizing Israel.

Hey -- no agenda at work there, is there?
 
This is a continuation of the debate that began, for some reason, on the Do You Support Israel? thread.

My position that there is such a thing as an English ethnicity but that it is a dynamic, constantly evolving concept that has nothing to do with shared genetics, race or blood, but an idea of shared cultural, linguistic and historical traits that define who the people of the country are and what such a definition of English means.

Such a definition doesn't necessarily have to follow a common definition with what constitutes any other ethnicity because the cultural experience of each ethnic group is unique, each more, or less, homogenous than the other.

Does anyone really believe that their is a genetic common factor uniting a particular section of the people that inhabit England, that can be defined as an English race?

This is actually called 'European' or 'Western-World' . . . depending on what the subject is.

Culture and history is often it's related context when people discuss it - sure, could easily be defined as an Ethnicity but *many* people just don't think of it that way. . . and often naming it anything in particular brings up 'Hitler connotation' thus many people who have this as part of their family history might be hesitant to label it anything.

In college there are various courses studying the progression, growth and change of 'European' or 'Western' Literature, science, politics, philosophy . . . the origins of this "Ethnicity" starts in the days of the Ancient Greeks - evolves into the European Middle Ages and continues into the Renaissance Era - on to modern today.

But titling it 'a journey into european ethnicity' is just never going to happen :)
 
Alexa, you're using wrmea, which is an anti-Israeli hate site.
Unfortunately there are such websites that seek to bound and twist reality to suit their political agendas, this is one of them.

Besides that, this is speaking about a certain law and not about a "nation" or what a nation is or what a nationality is.

well I don't have time to vet all sites. I came upon the information that only Jews had Israeli Nationality some time ago and looked for a link and I notice you are not denying it.

For the UK all the citizens of the UK have UK nationality and exactly the same rights .....and there are quite a few other rights denied these non National Arabs of Israel - which really brings it back to what Slainte asked 'How long does it take for an Arab to become a Jew'. Can they ever have equal status in a 'National' State or to be more correct Nationalist State.

Now I have other things to do.
 
well I don't have time to vet all sites. .

You certainly have all the time necessary to find all these hate sites you promote.

Odd, how you seem to lack the time necessary to take any note of what they are all about.
 
You certainly have all the time necessary to find all these hate sites you promote.

Odd, how you seem to lack the time necessary to take any note of what they are all about.

And this Israel subject from the other thread that spawned this thread is related to English Ethnicity . . . how?
 
well I don't have time to vet all sites. I came upon the information that only Jews had Israeli Nationality some time ago and looked for a link and I notice you are not denying it.

For the UK all the citizens of the UK have UK nationality and exactly the same rights .....and there are quite a few other rights denied these non National Arabs of Israel - which really brings it back to what Slainte asked 'How long does it take for an Arab to become a Jew'. Can they ever have equal status in a 'National' State or to be more correct Nationalist State.

Now I have other things to do.

Alexa, once more, this information you believe to be factual is based on a hate-site you're using as a source.
It is pretty much a deliberate lie that tries to make that which is untrue true and that which is true untrue.
Arab citizens of Israel are considered Israeli just as the Jewish, Armenian, Cherokee and the rest of the citizens of the state of Israel.
They enjoy equal rights.
 
And this Israel subject from the other thread that spawned this thread is related to English Ethnicity . . . how?

alexa has argued that the Jewish ethnicity does not exist, and that there's no such thing as the Jewish ethnicity.
I've explained to her the definition of an ethnic group and why the Jewish people are indeed recognized as an ethnic group, and gave her an example of other ethnicities such as the English ethnicity.

alexa has then claimed that the English ethnicity is non-existent as well, and here we are.
 
Here is the evidence to prove that Judiasm is an ethno-religion: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...lamic-full-veil-public-18.html#post1058867489

You know.. that makes their beloved, pure and 'always-wronged' Palestinians RACIST and GENOCIDAL in the bids to wipe Isreal off the map! Never mention THAT do they?!




I found that bit in the debate interesting because, when the point was proved, someone replied "Who really cares about semantics? It's still bigotry all the same."

Never let the truth cloud your judgment, eh Left?!
 
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alexa has argued that the Jewish ethnicity does not exist, and that there's no such thing as the Jewish ethnicity.
I've explained to her the definition of an ethnic group and why the Jewish people are indeed recognized as an ethnic group, and gave her an example of other ethnicities such as the English ethnicity.

alexa has then claimed that the English ethnicity is non-existent as well, and here we are.

That is a lie Apocalypse. I have questioned whether Jews are a race as you have implied elsewhere. Please do not say I have said things I have not.

Secondly, I have argued that there is no Nation of the English or the Scots or the Welsh apart from those who have citizenship and Nationality. I have said that the UK as a whole is a fluid country and that the ethnicity of this country is the sum of it's current citizens.
 
Alexa, once more, this information you believe to be factual is based on a hate-site you're using as a source.
It is pretty much a deliberate lie that tries to make that which is untrue true and that which is true untrue.
Arab citizens of Israel are considered Israeli just as the Jewish, Armenian, Cherokee and the rest of the citizens of the state of Israel.
They enjoy equal rights.

The information is certainly on a site which is extremely critical of Israel. I do not think it is a lie. You can find the same thing said in plenty of other places. Arabs who are citizens of Israel do not have Israeli Nationality and going along with that they do not have equal rights.


This legal definition in effect dooms any non-Jew to second-class citizenship in all respects - civic, political, social and economic. Non-Jews are not entitled to enjoy the aid and services of the Jewish Agency, which essentially is a state body. Their educational system is starved by the state in comparison with the Jewish one. The governments are always trying to base themselves on "a Jewish majority" in the Knesset, in order to avoid a dependence on non-Jewish citizens, a development which would introduce them into the "inner", "legitimate" circle of Israeli politics, thus shattering the invisible limits of the corporation state. Jewish society, even the secular one, does not easily admit non-Jews, particularly those of Arab origin. Only a few of them penetrate academia, the media, diplomacy and culture. Above all: only Jews (and a few others, namely Druzes and Bedouins) are permitted to serve in the army (although non-Jews are never allowed to rise above the medium levels of command). But the army and the defense field in general are among the main avenues for social, political and economic advancement in Israel. Not only does the officer corps enjoy a preferred position in society, but it is also relatively easy to pass from the senior levels of command to senior positions in the economy or in politics. Furthermore, the whole field of defense-related industries, which in practice covers all the hi-tec and most remunerative enterprises in the country, is virtually closed to non-Jews. An Arab graduate in electronics, computer-science, metallurgy or mechanics has hardly a chance of finding employment in his chosen field, and the same applies to the field of big finance and banking.

Palestine - Israel Journal of Politics, Economics and Culture

You live separate lives, not like people belonging to the same country.
 
And this Israel subject from the other thread that spawned this thread is related to English Ethnicity . . . how?

It even bagan in a different thread as I say here http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/78081-there-such-thing-english-ethnicity.html#post1058887574

That thread got me interested into whether Jews were indeed a race as I understood Apocalypse to be saying so I went and did some study and brought it up in that other thread. It goes also with Apocalypse having a different view to Nationality, it being to do with the ethnics of the people of the country rather than citizenship. This has come up time and time again.

Apocalypse said that England was a Nation of people of specific ethnicity. I and later others argued against this and unless you want the broad race term 'white' that is not true for it's history. It was argued that England is a fluid society and has no specific ethnicity but if a person stayed there long enough they became English. It was further argued that it was perfectly possible to be a Jew and English or Polish and English but Apocalypse disagreed. At some point Andalublue joined in, then thinking he must have gone off topic moved us here.
 
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thanks - I was just curious as to where it got started.
 
That is a lie Apocalypse. I have questioned whether Jews are a race as you have implied elsewhere. Please do not say I have said things I have not.

And so I did not, I said that you have argued against the Jewish ethnicity's existence and so you did.
Perhaps you weren't aware of it but I was claiming that the Jewish ethnicity exists, and that it is coming from the Semite race, and you've claimed in response that I was brainwashed into believing that, claiming that this is something that "only Israelis believe in".

Secondly, I have argued that there is no Nation of the English or the Scots or the Welsh apart from those who have citizenship and Nationality. I have said that the UK as a whole is a fluid country and that the ethnicity of this country is the sum of it's current citizens.

You have argued that the English ethnicity does not exist.
When confronted with the Wikipedia link and the BBC research you have declared them to be "nationalistic" and said that the wiki article was probably written by British racist nationalists such as the BNP.
Besides that you have also argued against the existence of the English people as a nation, even though the Wikipedia article was declaring "the English people are a nation and an ethnic group".
 
The information is certainly on a site which is extremely critical of Israel. I do not think it is a lie. You can find the same thing said in plenty of other places. Arabs who are citizens of Israel do not have Israeli Nationality and going along with that they do not have equal rights.




Palestine - Israel Journal of Politics, Economics and Culture

You live separate lives, not like people belonging to the same country.

"Extremely critical of Israel" is perhaps your way to refer to an anti-Israeli hate site.
Anyway, you keep sourcing political websites such as the wrmea and the pij, I get the feeling that regular sources such as Wikipedia do not hold the information you're looking for.
An Israeli-Arab is, once more, regarded to as an Israeli in his nationality, and he shares every and each of the rights that the Israeli Jew is benefiting from.
 
It even bagan in a different thread as I say here http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/78081-there-such-thing-english-ethnicity.html#post1058887574

That thread got me interested into whether Jews were indeed a race as I understood Apocalypse to be saying so I went and did some study and brought it up in that other thread. It goes also with Apocalypse having a different view to Nationality, it being to do with the ethnics of the people of the country rather than citizenship. This has come up time and time again.

Apocalypse said that England was a Nation of people of specific ethnicity. I and later others argued against this and unless you want the broad race term 'white' that is not true for it's history. It was argued that England is a fluid society and has no specific ethnicity but if a person stayed there long enough they became English. It was further argued that it was perfectly possible to be a Jew and English or Polish and English but Apocalypse disagreed. At some point Andalublue joined in, then thinking he must have gone off topic moved us here.

I understand nationality perfectly well alexa, I've even asked you to run a search of the name "Nation" in Wikipedia's search engine and read the first sentence that shows up.
You could say that your entire arguments here were not with me, but with Wikipedia. (And the BBC and some other sources)
I was merely acting as a speaker, transferring that information to you.
 
Incidentally, as an appendix to my earlier statements, American whites can be treated as second-class citizens by their own 'liberal' kin too, on the back of misplaced and retarded self-indulgent ethnic guilt.

For example, Bill Gates has BANNED whites from his own scholarship programme! How about THAT for 'equality'?! However, one bloke purports to do something about it by collecting money to pay for scholarships for white kids only: YouTube - RAMZ Millennium Scholars


I don't know about you, but I would never give money to a stranger hawking on Youtube. But it's certainly a good idea to have race-based discrimination also work in favour of whites if we have to have it at all. And what's more, the 1976 Race Relations Act allows the self-same perversion Bill Gates likes here in Britain where racism's allowed to cut one way.

Can't have English things 'too white', eh Mrs. Hodge or Harman?!
 
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"Extremely critical of Israel" is perhaps your way to refer to an anti-Israeli hate site.
Anyway, you keep sourcing political websites such as the wrmea and the pij, I get the feeling that regular sources such as Wikipedia do not hold the information you're looking for.
An Israeli-Arab is, once more, regarded to as an Israeli in his nationality, and he shares every and each of the rights that the Israeli Jew is benefiting from.

When is an Israel-critical website, not a hate site? Are the two synonymous? And if not, can you link to a site critical of the Israeli government that you wouldn't condemn as being a hate site?
 
When is an Israel-critical website, not a hate site? Are the two synonymous? And if not, can you link to a site critical of the Israeli government that you wouldn't condemn as being a hate site?

You're using the word critical, while those sites do not have anything to do with criticism.
I may criticize you for driving through a red light in case you were driving through a red light - I may not criticize you for murdering 1,000 children and eating their corpses in case you were driving through a red light.
There lies the difference between "criticism" and "demonizing". Unfortunately those who engage in demonizing like to think of themselves as if they partake in criticism.

Besides that, you've created this thread because you wanted to keep your posts on-topic, and because the topic of the other thread was Israel and not the English ethnicity.
Now you engage in the topic of Israel that is off-topic to this thread and is on-topic to the other thread.
One would think that there is some form of a programming code in this forum's threads preventing anyone who's posting here from debating the thread's subject.
 
When is an Israel-critical website, not a hate site? Are the two synonymous? And if not, can you link to a site critical of the Israeli government that you wouldn't condemn as being a hate site?

A good question. Even the BBC is a hate site it seems on these boards.
 
A good question. Even the BBC is a hate site it seems on these boards.

No, the BBC is merely biased, like the majority of the British press.
 
Besides that, you've created this thread because you wanted to keep your posts on-topic, and because the topic of the other thread was Israel and not the English ethnicity.
Now you engage in the topic of Israel that is off-topic to this thread and is on-topic to the other thread.
One would think that there is some form of a programming code in this forum's threads preventing anyone who's posting here from debating the thread's subject.

Hey, Mr Kettle! You're looking very black today.
Best regards,
Mrs Pot
 
No, the BBC is merely biased, like the majority of the British press.

You mean like every press in the world?

I don't see BBC's bias personally :shrug:
 
Hey, Mr Kettle! You're looking very black today.
Best regards,
Mrs Pot

If you're asserting what I think you're asserting then you're horribly wrong.
I did not bring up the subject of Israel in this thread.
 
Alexa, once more, this information you believe to be factual is based on a hate-site you're using as a source.
It is pretty much a deliberate lie that tries to make that which is untrue true and that which is true untrue.
Arab citizens of Israel are considered Israeli just as the Jewish, Armenian, Cherokee and the rest of the citizens of the state of Israel.
They enjoy equal rights.

And so I did not, I said that you have argued against the Jewish ethnicity's existence and so you did.
Perhaps you weren't aware of it but I was claiming that the Jewish ethnicity exists, and that it is coming from the Semite race, and you've claimed in response that I was brainwashed into believing that, claiming that this is something that "only Israelis believe in".

"Extremely critical of Israel" is perhaps your way to refer to an anti-Israeli hate site.
Anyway, you keep sourcing political websites such as the wrmea and the pij, I get the feeling that regular sources such as Wikipedia do not hold the information you're looking for.
An Israeli-Arab is, once more, regarded to as an Israeli in his nationality, and he shares every and each of the rights that the Israeli Jew is benefiting from.

If you're asserting what I think you're asserting then you're horribly wrong.
I did not bring up the subject of Israel in this thread.

You may not have raised the issue in the first place, and I certainly didn't, but you've been happy to discuss Israel until the point at which I make one reference to it, then I'm the one apparently derailing my whole thread.
 
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You may not have raised the issue in the first place, and I certainly didn't, but you've been happy to discuss Israel until the point at which I make one reference to it, then I'm the one apparently derailing my whole thread.

Emboldened part ruins and obliterates your initial claim.

And no, I wasn't "happy to discuss Israel until" blah blah blah, I was merely fulfilling my responsibility by opposing that which is untrue.
I can totally understand why would that disturb your spirit.
 
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