• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is there an oil shortage?

OrphanSlug

A sinister place...
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
31,975
Reaction score
30,886
Location
Atlanta
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Another thread from this OP devoid of reality or even understanding that oil is a globally traded commodity with all sorts of players in the game from ground to in the gas tank across the planet.

Blaming this all on "speculation in the markets" is not only naive, but borderline intentionally dishonest.
 

MamboDervish

Looking Forward
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
10,696
Reaction score
10,230
Location
The Big Apple
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
If not, there is only one thing causing the price of oil to rise, speculation in the markets, period. If you disagree please state your reason/s why.
The other side of any "shortage" - real, contrived or imagined - is demand. US citizens represent must less than 4.5% of the world's population, but we still consume 20% of the world's gasoline. We are embarrassingly addicted to, and gluttonous of, petroleum.

 

bongsaway

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Messages
38,207
Reaction score
25,159
Location
Flori-duh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive

bongsaway

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Messages
38,207
Reaction score
25,159
Location
Flori-duh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Another thread from this OP devoid of reality or even understanding that oil is a globally traded commodity with all sorts of players in the game from ground to in the gas tank across the planet.

Blaming this all on "speculation in the markets" is not only naive, but borderline intentionally dishonest.
Ok but you are not explaining what the other players do to influence the price of oil if there are no shortages? If there are no shortages why is oil rising?
 

MamboDervish

Looking Forward
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
10,696
Reaction score
10,230
Location
The Big Apple
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Some people think it's our right to be gluttons.
Indeed.

"How dare anybody ask me to trade in my 15-18 mpg SUV for a 35-45 mpg econo car?!!? To say nothing of my recreational dirt-bike, or snowmobile, or jet-ski, where I can burn fossil fuel doing noisy rooster tail donuts all day, while polluting my fresh water lake! The nerve of some people, eh?"

Is it any wonder they're all in denial of AGW? They have a heavy vested interest, both in comfort and recreation, to telling themselves it doesn't exist.
 

Lovebug

Be humble and kind
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Messages
32,043
Reaction score
16,936
Location
south
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
If not, there is only one thing causing the price of oil to rise, speculation in the markets, period. If you disagree please state your reason/s why.
Husband thinks it is due to hysteria. I agree.
 

OrphanSlug

A sinister place...
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
31,975
Reaction score
30,886
Location
Atlanta
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Ok but you are not explaining what the other players do to influence the price of oil if there are no shortages? If there are no shortages why is oil rising?

Again, oil is traded globally with price determined by a slew of factors... not just because of any one nation importing from / exporting to other nations.

You have created a very naive false dilemma that it is either shortages or speculation, excluding the possibility of a combination of the two as well as a combination of the two in concert with other factors. I don't know, like a world oil supplier invading another nation.

Oil markets, again internationally, are easy to spook one price direction or another. You add in Putin's temper tantrum and this is amplified.

Looking over the futures market for oil (which I used to do anyway) I can clearly see what is happening with supply / demand assumption over the coming half year at least impacted greatly by Russia having to look for other buyers and numerous nations changing their outlooks on buy sell arrangements.

You may politically, haphazardly, and rather foolishly say go target big oil and ignore all the other players but that is beyond asinine. The typical Elizabeth Warren rhetoric designed to mislead, as you are doing with this thread.

You of all people should know what happens with supply side faults (for any reason and for any amount of time) against economic gains where demand and supply do not line up. It leads to higher costs and higher profits *exclusively* because of econ 101 explanation of demand not changing when supply is (or even might.) Speculation has no choice but to reevaluate who is going to be a buyer and a seller on settlement day each month in concert with global movement of oil.

It is a new political bogeyman designed to ignore a real issue, when speculation has just as much power to decrease price as increase it assuming factors.

Those factors you care not to talk about and refuse to acknowledge.

Oh never mind, it is Shell and BP sticking it to the public... have fun selling that bullshit.
 

bongsaway

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Messages
38,207
Reaction score
25,159
Location
Flori-duh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Again, oil is traded globally with price determined by a slew of factors... not just because of any one nation importing from / exporting to other nations.

You have created a very naive false dilemma that it is either shortages or speculation, excluding the possibility of a combination of the two as well as a combination of the two in concert with other factors. I don't know, like a world oil supplier invading another nation.

Oil markets, again internationally, are easy to spook one price direction or another. You add in Putin's temper tantrum and this is amplified.

Looking over the futures market for oil (which I used to do anyway) I can clearly see what is happening with supply / demand assumption over the coming half year at least impacted greatly by Russia having to look for other buyers and numerous nations changing their outlooks on buy sell arrangements.

You may politically, haphazardly, and rather foolishly say go target big oil and ignore all the other players but that is beyond asinine. The typical Elizabeth Warren rhetoric designed to mislead, as you are doing with this thread.

You of all people should know what happens with supply side faults (for any reason and for any amount of time) against economic gains where demand and supply do not line up. It leads to higher costs and higher profits *exclusively* because of econ 101 explanation of demand not changing when supply is (or even might.) Speculation has no choice but to reevaluate who is going to be a buyer and a seller on settlement day each month in concert with global movement of oil.

It is a new political bogeyman designed to ignore a real issue, when speculation has just as much power to decrease price as increase it assuming factors.

Those factors you care not to talk about and refuse to acknowledge.

Oh never mind, it is Shell and BP sticking it to the public... have fun selling that bullshit.
I don't recall blaming shell or bp for anything but you can correct me if I'm wrong. What I did blame was speculation in the markets, wall street, not big oil or these other players to which you keep referring.
 

OrphanSlug

A sinister place...
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
31,975
Reaction score
30,886
Location
Atlanta
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I don't recall blaming shell or bp for anything but you can correct me if I'm wrong. What I did blame was speculation in the markets, wall street, not big oil or these other players to which you keep referring.

But you cannot articulate why, then pretend to win.
 

BirdinHand

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
11,475
Reaction score
11,669
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
The other side of any "shortage" - real, contrived or imagined - is demand. US citizens represent must less than 4.5% of the world's population, but we still consume 20% of the world's gasoline. We are embarrassingly addicted to, and gluttonous of, petroleum.

Our biggest utilization of oil is transportation…and yes, a chunk of that is personal autos.

Electric vehicles cost what? $35K?

How many people have that money around to switch right now?

So let’s see - the two biggest oil sectors in the US are transportation and industrial.

Transportation: Includes energy used by automobiles; trucks; buses; motorcycles; trains; subways, and other rail vehicles; aircraft; and ships, barges, and other waterborne vehicles whose primary purpose is transporting people or goods from one location to another. Vehicles whose primary purpose is not transportation (for example: construction cranes and bulldozers, farming vehicles, and warehouse forklifts) are classified in the sector of their primary use.

Second biggest use is industrial:

Industrial: Includes energy consumed for manufacturing (NAICS codes 31- 33); agriculture, forestry, fishing, and hunting (NAICS code 11); mining, including oil and natural gas extraction (NAICS code 21); construction (NAICS code 23); and combined-heat-and-power (CHP) generators that produce electricity or useful ther


Where should we make the cuts?
 

Cordelier

18th Earl of Diddly
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 22, 2017
Messages
12,534
Reaction score
4,611
Location
Driving on the Parkway/Parking on the Driveway
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
There is if we want to replace all (or even some) of the Russian oil and natural gas exports to Europe.
And if we don't, then the Russians have leverage to split us off from Europe where it comes to enforcing sanctions over Ukraine.

So I guess the answer is dependent on what kind of foreign policy you want us to have.
 

Razoo

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
20,915
Reaction score
6,036
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
speculation created by numerous spectators is the right answer because shortage of oil is not the problem.

inflating commodities aka duping the consumers is unethical.

Consumers one way to battle inflation is to stop shopping irresponsibly which will work. Elected officials are not going to do anything about it except offer political rhetoric to appease the voters who keep re-electing these bogus capitol hill inside trading crooks.

Bongsaway is not naive.
 

MamboDervish

Looking Forward
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
10,696
Reaction score
10,230
Location
The Big Apple
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Our biggest utilization of oil is transportation…and yes, a chunk of that is personal autos.

Where should we make the cuts?
We should all be doing our part, everything we can do, every day. A good place to start would be no recreational use of fossil fuels.
Do we really need to be screaming through the woods on dirt bikes and snowmobiles? Do we really need to spin in circles on our Jet Skis?

Can we use a rake instead of a gas powered leaf blower? Can we shovel our driveway instead of powering up the snowblower?

These question can only be answered by the individual, but a little more respect for the environment, and the lives sacrificed to provide us with gasoline, could go a long way to reducing our consumption.
 

bongsaway

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Messages
38,207
Reaction score
25,159
Location
Flori-duh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
But you cannot articulate why, then pretend to win.
I think I've articulated it a couple of times already, speculation in the markets, you however disagree so I guess we're at a standoff but you still haven't really explained how 'other players' influence the price of oil when there are no shortages. The big oil producers like saudi arabia set a price they would like to get for a barrel of oil and because of differing factors that price moves around, sometimes they get more, sometimes they get less but mostly the price of a barrel of oil depends on speculation in the markets barring any shortages or wars or that kind of disruptive event.
 

Razoo

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
20,915
Reaction score
6,036
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Inflation, speculation, in our nation how can we be innoculated ...............

nflation | The Nation​

https://www.thenation.com › keyword › inflation

Inflation news and analysis from The Nation. ... policies will come with risks, while Lauren Melodia writes that the GOP is exaggerating inflation concerns.
 

BirdinHand

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
11,475
Reaction score
11,669
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
We should all be doing our part, everything we can do, every day. A good place to start would be no recreational use of fossil fuels.
Do we really need to be screaming through the woods on dirt bikes and snowmobiles? Do we really need to spin in circles on our Jet Skis?

Can we use a rake instead of a gas powered leaf blower? Can we shovel our driveway instead of powering up the snowblower?

These question can only be answered by the individual, but a little more respect for the environment, and the lives sacrificed to provide us with gasoline, could go a long way to reducing our consumption.
So, put the jet ski, dirt bike, snow mobiles, RVs, etc companies and associated repair shops and industries out of business?

The landscaping companies out of business?

Seems like a solid economic strategy.
 

Gateman_Wen

Official disruptive influence
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
17,181
Reaction score
17,604
Location
Middle of it all
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Another thread from this OP devoid of reality or even understanding that oil is a globally traded commodity with all sorts of players in the game from ground to in the gas tank across the planet.

Blaming this all on "speculation in the markets" is not only naive, but borderline intentionally dishonest.
Yet somehow completely correct.
 

OrphanSlug

A sinister place...
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
31,975
Reaction score
30,886
Location
Atlanta
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I think I've articulated it a couple of times already, speculation in the markets, you however disagree so I guess we're at a standoff but you still haven't really explained how 'other players' influence the price of oil when there are no shortages. The big oil producers like saudi arabia set a price they would like to get for a barrel of oil and because of differing factors that price moves around, sometimes they get more, sometimes they get less but mostly the price of a barrel of oil depends on speculation in the markets barring any shortages or wars or that kind of disruptive event.

Not at all, you are complaining about not being able to control other nations and you refuse to acknowledge oil is internationally price determined.
 

Simpletruther

DP Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2019
Messages
8,839
Reaction score
1,583
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
If not, there is only one thing causing the price of oil to rise, speculation in the markets, period. If you disagree please state your reason/s why.
Likely speculation about future shortage which might or might not turn out accurate is part of the story.

Either way, it's not evil and not even hurtful, speculation serves a useful purpose.
 

Razoo

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
20,915
Reaction score
6,036
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
speculation created by numerous spectators is the right answer because shortage of oil is not the problem.

inflating commodities aka duping the consumers is unethical.

Consumers one way to battle inflation is to stop shopping irresponsibly which will work. Elected officials are not going to do anything about it except offer political rhetoric to appease the voters who keep re-electing these bogus capitol hill inside trading crooks.

Bongsaway is not naive.
We have feet, we have sidewalks, we have a variety of cycles, we have roller skates all of which play a part in our transportation system. PARK our cars and use our feet, our sidewalks, pick a cycle or roller skates and begin cutting way back on the use of fossil fuels. We'll all be glad we did do this.
 

Razoo

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
20,915
Reaction score
6,036
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed

'Abolish these companies, get rid of them': what would it take ...​

https://www.theguardian.com › environment › aug › cli...

Aug 11, 2021 — Nationalized ownership would allow the US to leave oil and gas reserves in the ground while simultaneously shrinking the fossil fuel company's ...

People also ask
Why is there so much oil in the ground?​


How did oil get so deep underground?

Why is leaving fossil fuels in the ground is good for everyone?

What kind of oil comes out of the ground?


Fossil Energy Study Guide: Oil
https://www.energy.gov › prod › files › 2013/04


PDF

You wouldn't see a big underground lake, as a lot of people think. Oil doesn't exist in deep, black pools. In fact, an underground oil.
5 pages

Does oil extraction leave a cavity? | Questions | Naked Scientists​

https://www.thenakedscientists.com › articles › does-oil-...

Feb 13, 2011 — A few years back when I first started doing all this, I thought oil existed underground in these big open caverns, almost like a coal seam ...

Oil - Greenpeace USA​

https://www.greenpeace.org › usa › issues › oil

Keep Oil in the Ground. Let's leave oil behind and kickstart a new energy system. We've got great opportunities today to build a cleaner energy system in ...

The End of Oil Is Near | Sierra Club​

https://www.sierraclub.org › sierra › feature › end-oil-n...

Aug 24, 2020 — THIS PAST SPRING, coastlines around the globe took on the feel of an enemy invasion as hundreds of massive oil tankers overwhelmed seaports ...

Squeezing More Oil Out of the Ground - Scientific American​

https://www.scientificamerican.com › article › squeezin...

Apr 1, 2009 — All That You Can't Leave Behind ... Contrary to common belief, oil is not held in great underground lakes or caves.

Oil spills | National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration​

http://www.noaa.gov › ... › Ocean and coasts

Aug 1, 2020 — But when oil accidentally spills into the ocean, it can cause big ... Oil is found below ground or below the ocean floor in reservoirs, ...

Analysis: Oil companies bet on $100 a barrel as they rush to sell​

https://www.reuters.com › business › energy › oil-compan...

Jul 1, 2021 — Oil companies are betting that if they sell land, buyers will come, ... when just a few months ago big properties were being sold at a loss, ...

Opinion: The beginning of the end for Big Oil - CNN​

https://www.cnn.com › perspectives › imf-oil-industry

Jul 8, 2021 — After a pandemic and a price war sent petroleum prices tumbling in 2020, they are again on the rise. A new oil price super cycle -- an ...
Missing: leaving ‎| Must include: leaving
 

Simpletruther

DP Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2019
Messages
8,839
Reaction score
1,583
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
We have feet, we have sidewalks, we have a variety of cycles, we have roller skates all of which play a part in our transportation system. PARK our cars and use our feet, our sidewalks, pick a cycle or roller skates and begin cutting way back on the use of fossil fuels. We'll all be glad we did do this.
Healthier too
 
Top Bottom