• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance?

Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

How refreshing to see Progressive find more excuses for being poor.

So now it's "being poor makes you stupid".

Truth be told, it's actually "staying poor means you're stupid".

Geeze, why else have so many legal immigrants been able to realize their economic dream and escape the poverty of the the country of their origin?
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance



If you want to actually discuss this argument I guess you can start with when is IQ acquired? At birth, if not by what age. The ask when does a child understand the stresses the video talks about.

Lastly, I do not believe that IQ is the only thing that separates the ability for people to move into or out of poverty. That is why I find this discussion to be more political than intellectual. I do not believe that there is any special one magic bullet that explains why people fall into poverty.
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

How refreshing to see Progressive find more excuses for being poor.

So now it's "being poor makes you stupid".

Truth be told, it's actually "staying poor means you're stupid".

Geeze, why else have so many legal immigrants been able to realize their economic dream and escape the poverty of the the country of their origin?

Because nobody was stupid enough to reward them for sitting around while feeling sorry for themselves in their homeland.
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

Envy??

I've posted here 20 times that I was a Republican for thirty years, Eisenhower thru Reagan's first term. I was a Republican when they stood for balanced budgets and a middle class. Now I wouldn't give them enough warm piss to take a pill. All they stand for now is corporations and the wealthy. The good news......they've been found out. They've lost the popular vote is five of the last six presidential elections. If we can elect a majority in the house and maintain the senate we're going to show you what "All Men Are Created Equal" really means. That's Whites, Blacks, Latinos, Asians, Gays, Women, the intellectually challenged, the disabled, the blind etc. There must be something better than 1% having all the money:

So did the Republicans also become racists after Reagan's first term as well?
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

Tax cuts are the key. When Reagan slashed tax rates for the wealthy to levels not seem in 50 years and continued to spend at an increased rate he quadrupled the national debt. That means that he effectively borrowed trillions from foreign banks and funneled it into the coffers of the wealthiest people in the nation:

6-25-10inc-f1.jpg


3.jpg

You ignore what the actual federal income taxation situation is. There has been a huge shift in taxation away from the all of the lower 4 income quintiles and toward the highest income quintile since 1979.

Tax Rates of the Mid-20th Century | Teachinghistory.org

One thing to look at is the following chart that shows the total federal tax liabilities (for all federal taxes paid) from the top 20% of income earners versus the bottom 80% between 1979 and 2007. The top 20% of income earners contributed 56.4% of all federal revenues in 1970 and 68.9% by 2007. By comparison, the bottom 80% contributed 43.5% of all federal revenue in 1970 and just 30.9% in 2007. The federal government has increasingly relied on the top-20% of income earners to fund its programs, notwithstanding arguments that the highest income earners don't pay their "fair share" of income taxes.

The Liberal Order - Do the rich pay enough in taxes?
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

there are far too many left-wingers-especially those who gain power pandering to the poor-who want to blame the successful for the plight of the unsuccessful

That is a cop out. The poor do not blame the rich. The poor hold the powerful, who also happen to be rich, accountable for exercise their power in an equitable way. They may envy them, but blame them as a group. That is a right wing talking point.
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

That is a cop out. The poor do not blame the rich. The poor hold the powerful, who also happen to be rich, accountable for exercise their power in an equitable way. They may envy them, but blame them as a group. That is a right wing talking point.

I call BS on that. I want to see some proof of that claim. I was talking about your leaders like Obama
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

If we can elect a majority in the house and maintain the senate we're going to show you what "All Men Are Created Equal" really means. That's Whites, Blacks, Latinos, Asians, Gays, Women, the intellectually challenged, the disabled, the blind etc.

PLease explain what went wrong in Obamas first 2 years when he did have what you describe above.
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

I call BS on that. I want to see some proof of that claim. I was talking about your leaders like Obama

First of anytime you make a sweeping generalization like that, you are usually wrong. Not everyone in any group is exactly the same in either their motives or behavior.

What exactly do you want proof of?
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

That is a cop out. The poor do not blame the rich. The poor hold the powerful, who also happen to be rich, accountable for exercise their power in an equitable way. They may envy them, but blame them as a group. That is a right wing talking point.

You are right the por dont, just the people that appoint themselves to speak for the poor do blame the rich, while being rich themselves.
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

You are right the por dont, just the people that appoint themselves to speak for the poor do blame the rich, while being rich themselves.

Don't the rich have more power and influence though.
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance



With the exception of food for children, all other economic classes suffer the same or different stresses. Even the food thing disappears when parents are actually spending what they have been given in welfare properly. I don't buy that just the poor have stress in their lives.

Also, your video claims that stress is the reason for bad choices. So, in the end, poverty is still the result of bad choices made by individuals.
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

Don't the rich have more power and influence though.

Yes, so? They always have and always will. What the rich do does not affect what anybody else does.
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

Yes, so? They always have and always will. What the rich do does not affect what anybody else does.

So you think the powerful people are typically also rich people and that those rich and powerful people do not exercise their political power sometimes to the detriment of the poor?
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

Then pay the wages that are demanded...................Oh wait, what is the psycology of being the idle rich?????
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

What about Abe Lincoln or the thousands upon thousands of other people who've earned a life for themselves and accomplished the American Dream by pulling themselves out of poverty before there was such a thing as welfare? The rest of your post gives the scenario of an utter failure of self control and accountability....what if I decided to smoke crack, what if I was foolish enough to spend multiple paychecks on application fees, what if I decided to have a child that I couldn't support, what if I decided to commit a felony and go to prison while leaving that child at home, etc...

I think it's safe to say that Lincoln lived in a simpler and very foreign time compared to today. Did they even have crack back then? Well, he had chronic depression too, but some are exceptional like that. I definitely admire anyone who can do that, but don't fool yourself, without adequate social support today, it's quite difficult.

My point re: his app fees was he couldn't find a place to live even though employed. That was his #1 priority, because the shelter locks down at say 9 pm, while he's working as a waiter until midnight! You make these 'decisions' out to be long-term plans. People have kids they don't want, all the time. It might be a lapse in judgment, but $300 a month out of your paycheck for 18 years? Then the mom will often spend a large chunk of that on drugs. The kid usually sees a fraction of that, and that's poverty and a broken system for you.

I mean, i will grant you that the ex-cons I read were mostly uninspiring and judgmental pricks themselves. I sure didn't like them, though even the one who was hired as a professor ended up having to fight to keep it, because of petty theft on his record from 10 years prior. He had to explain to this committee why he fell into drinking after his mother's death and went on to rob a video store. Now, you can berate him all you want, but you can't do it while pretending that everyone in this country gets a 2nd chance.
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

Two things I have a question about regarding your last point. While we all would like less income inequality, and many posts mention this, I have not any coherent solutions. If you or either party have them what are they.

After saying that. I heard that Twitter is about to go public. This will mean that the founder will become a billionaire and many workers will become instant millionaires. How does the fact that these people get rich stop others from moving into the middle class?

Another example, there was a boxing match last night. The winner will receive at least $41 million for his evening's effort. Again how does that adversely impact others from earning a living.

No problem....do what they did when the debt was large after the second world war. Any citizen who earned more than $300,000 per year paid 91% of the excess to the government. Shiiiiiit..........we could knock this debt concern out in five years. If George Bush hadn't cut taxes twice for the wealthy it would have been paid up anyway.


3.jpg
 
Last edited:
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

So you think the powerful people are typically also rich people and that those rich and powerful people do not exercise their political power sometimes to the detriment of the poor?

Can you give an example of what you think is happening?
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

like most of your posts on wealth and poverty, that is completely inane. Its the left that needs a large self-sustaining mass of dependent people to remain in power.

explain please?
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

In addition to the financial stresses mentioned, poverty is also associated with more exposure to violence, stressful family situations and abuse, which can cause post-traumatic stress. There is also more exposure to toxins from proximity to freeways, factories and industrial facilities as well as substance abuse. Add in learned helplessness, inferior schools in poor neighborhoods, parents incapable of helping children with school and a society that mocks and blames people for being poor and glorifies being rich over any other acheivement, and its little wonder that it is so hard to get out of the cycle of poverty.
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

...we could knock this debt concern out in five years. If George Bush hadn't cut taxes twice for the wealthy it would have been paid up anyway.


Being the math geek I am, I love it when people make ridiculous statements like that. It gives me a chance to crunch some numbers and make people look foolish.

* Bush lowered the tax rate on the upper income bracket in 2003. It basically lowered the amount they paid by 12% (from 39.6% to 35%)
* From 2003 thru 2012, the federal government collected $20.549 trillion in taxes.
* Of that, 42% came from individual income taxes totaling $8.632 trillion.
* Of that, 69% was paid by the wealthiest 10% totaling $5.956 trillion.
* If Bush would have never lowered their tax rate, they would have paid and extra $774 billion over those 10 years.
* That would have increased government revenue by an average of $77.4 billion a year, a whopping 3.8%.

Just to put that into perspective, all that extra revenue combined would have only covered about 7 of the 55 months of spending that's taken place during president Obama's time in office.

Conclusion: If the so called "Bush tax cuts for the wealthy" would have never happened, instead of the country being 16.94 trillion dollars in debt like we are today, we would be 16.17 trillion in debt instead. A total reduction of less that 1% That would have wiped the debt out all right... LMAO

Like i said... I love it when people substitute their political hatred for the facts and make ridiculous statement like that one.
 
Last edited:
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

Guys I accidentally made duplicate threads...Can everyone move to the other one? Thank you


***CAN MODS DELETE THIS ONE AND MOVE ALL POSTS TO OTHER THREAD AS I ACCIDENTALLY MADE A DUPLICATE THREAD ON ACCIDENT***
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

I can only speak for myself on this issue. I grew up in poverty (born in 1953). My mum often went without food so that my sister, brothers and myself could have food. She worked at night to pay the rent. If she sent my father to pay the rent, he would often end up spending the money on himself. So, yes I know poverty. I was always envious of the kids in the family that my mum worked for because we had nothing and they had so much. It was only as an adult that I came to know how unhappy that family was, while my sisters, brothers and myself had a reasonably happy childhood, making out own toys and our own fun. Life was tough. I left home, joined the Navy, married a sailor and had two kids. He walked out one day and that was that so I moved up to Sydney, lived in the slums, raised my kids on welfare and went without. My mum had moved to New South Wales after her divorce and was working and it was a few dollars from her every week that helped tide me over until the next welfare payment (at a time in Australia that welfare was a pittance compared to now). I was walking around Sydney in the middle of winter with only thongs on my feet (I think Americans call them flip flops?) until mum bought me a pair of sneakers to keep my feet warm. One day I did something I had never done before...I spent $11 on myself to buy a second hand copy of The Lord of the Rings. When I got home the electricity bill was waiting and I sat on my bed and wept and cursed myself for spending that $11 on myself when I should have saved it for the bill. So, yes, I know poverty. I was fortunate in that the money my mum gave me towards food and sometimes the bills, meant that I did not have to do what many women have to do....shack up with some guy who can pay the bills. I left the slums of Sydney and moved down south to the coast because my mum had remarried and had moved down here. I was fortunate after a few years to get government housing so that made life a little easier. I did two things; I lived on a budget and I kept my legs closed. From the time my ex walked out on me, I remained celebate. I did not want my son or daughter exposed to a stream of men. They came first, always.
My son left home and my daughter was doing her HSC. I went to TAFE and did a six months women's education course. I had no confidence and thought I was too dumb to do much. After that course finished I studied at TAFE for 12 months in another course, just for the joy of learning, of researching, of writing and talking to adults (which was something I rarely did raising my kids). I would listen to the other students talk about going to uni and what they would do. After awhile, I realised that my marks were higher than theirs as I was toping most of my classes and the dream took root. Growing up in poverty, uni was only ever for the rich and not something I ever gave a second thought to. But...the dream had taken root and I got a high score and was accepted into uni. I worked had, still living on very little, studying and walking and walking some more. My daughter left home and I contined to study and walk and eventually I graduated with my BA. and then did another year earning my Dip. Ed. After a few years I got a full time teaching position and I now make more money that I thought was possible for me.
Did living in poverty for most of my life diminish my IQ? Don't think so. What it did do was diminish my confidence in my own abilities that I am only now starting to realise.

After all of that, and I am sorry if I bored anyone, it is the metal of a person, the strength and will to learn that makes a person soar, perhaps to "low" heights by some standards, by high by what they thought they could achieve. Money has nothing to do with the desire to achieve, that comes from within. Over the centuries there have been so many who began in humble circumstances, only to soar to great heights by their will to learn and overcome alone.

Poverty does no destroy, a lack of the fire within does. Statistically, my son should have ended up in jail and my daughter should have been a single mother as a teenager. My son, with a lack of education because he didn't take to school well, now makes a damn good income and is happy in his job and his life. My daughter is happily married and life just keeps on getting better. Stop blaming poverty and start blaming a system that instills a lack of the love of learning and everything is everyone else's fault not mine, and teach people to soar.

Ok, waffled on a lot here, but sometimes I do that that when I want to make a point. Sorry if it was too much. Time for dinner.
 
Re: Is there a psychological component to being poor, and/or on government assistance

I can only speak for myself on this issue. I grew up in poverty (born in 1953). My mum often went without food so that my sister, brothers and myself could have food. She worked at night to pay the rent. If she sent my father to pay the rent, he would often end up spending the money on himself. So, yes I know poverty. I was always envious of the kids in the family that my mum worked for because we had nothing and they had so much. It was only as an adult that I came to know how unhappy that family was, while my sisters, brothers and myself had a reasonably happy childhood, making out own toys and our own fun. Life was tough. I left home, joined the Navy, married a sailor and had two kids. He walked out one day and that was that so I moved up to Sydney, lived in the slums, raised my kids on welfare and went without. My mum had moved to New South Wales after her divorce and was working and it was a few dollars from her every week that helped tide me over until the next welfare payment (at a time in Australia that welfare was a pittance compared to now). I was walking around Sydney in the middle of winter with only thongs on my feet (I think Americans call them flip flops?) until mum bought me a pair of sneakers to keep my feet warm. One day I did something I had never done before...I spent $11 on myself to buy a second hand copy of The Lord of the Rings. When I got home the electricity bill was waiting and I sat on my bed and wept and cursed myself for spending that $11 on myself when I should have saved it for the bill. So, yes, I know poverty. I was fortunate in that the money my mum gave me towards food and sometimes the bills, meant that I did not have to do what many women have to do....shack up with some guy who can pay the bills. I left the slums of Sydney and moved down south to the coast because my mum had remarried and had moved down here. I was fortunate after a few years to get government housing so that made life a little easier. I did two things; I lived on a budget and I kept my legs closed. From the time my ex walked out on me, I remained celebate. I did not want my son or daughter exposed to a stream of men. They came first, always.
My son left home and my daughter was doing her HSC. I went to TAFE and did a six months women's education course. I had no confidence and thought I was too dumb to do much. After that course finished I studied at TAFE for 12 months in another course, just for the joy of learning, of researching, of writing and talking to adults (which was something I rarely did raising my kids). I would listen to the other students talk about going to uni and what they would do. After awhile, I realised that my marks were higher than theirs as I was toping most of my classes and the dream took root. Growing up in poverty, uni was only ever for the rich and not something I ever gave a second thought to. But...the dream had taken root and I got a high score and was accepted into uni. I worked had, still living on very little, studying and walking and walking some more. My daughter left home and I contined to study and walk and eventually I graduated with my BA. and then did another year earning my Dip. Ed. After a few years I got a full time teaching position and I now make more money that I thought was possible for me.
Did living in poverty for most of my life diminish my IQ? Don't think so. What it did do was diminish my confidence in my own abilities that I am only now starting to realise.

After all of that, and I am sorry if I bored anyone, it is the metal of a person, the strength and will to learn that makes a person soar, perhaps to "low" heights by some standards, by high by what they thought they could achieve. Money has nothing to do with the desire to achieve, that comes from within. Over the centuries there have been so many who began in humble circumstances, only to soar to great heights by their will to learn and overcome alone.

Poverty does no destroy, a lack of the fire within does. Statistically, my son should have ended up in jail and my daughter should have been a single mother as a teenager. My son, with a lack of education because he didn't take to school well, now makes a damn good income and is happy in his job and his life. My daughter is happily married and life just keeps on getting better. Stop blaming poverty and start blaming a system that instills a lack of the love of learning and everything is everyone else's fault not mine, and teach people to soar.

Ok, waffled on a lot here, but sometimes I do that that when I want to make a point. Sorry if it was too much. Time for dinner.

Um can you break this up in paragraphs and while you're at it, post in the other thread?
 
Back
Top Bottom