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Is there a God?

imprtnrd said:
I believe there is a God. I also believe our bodies take on new souls after we die. Where else do all the souls come from that obtain a phsycial body? The bible does say "life is everlasting and there is no end".
Having no end implies having no beginning. Where was your "soul" 10 million years ago?
 
imprtnrd said:
I believe there is a God. I also believe our bodies take on new souls after we die. Where else do all the souls come from that obtain a phsycial body? The bible does say "life is everlasting and there is no end".

Believe whatever you want, but reincarnation is definitely not what the bible teachs.
 
There is no god. Religion is the first from of government and science. When natural disasters hit people they asked their tribe leaders why. One was clever enough to say that an invisible being caused this because he was mad at how they were living. God is Santa Claus. It's funny how christians think that atheists don't know anything about the bible. Actually, many atheists have reasearched religions more than christians have. People say that the bible is infallible. Those people don't even know what the Apocrypha is. It is a collection of books that were left out of the bible. Many have prominent women in them and that is why they were left out. The "go tell it on the mountain" mentallity is just a marketing tool. Christianity actually has no original ideas. Immaculate conception is not original. All christian holidays are an answer to pre-existing pagan holidays. There are no miracles. It is much more logical to see how man created god and not vice versa.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
There is no god. Religion is the first from of government and science. When natural disasters hit people they asked their tribe leaders why. One was clever enough to say that an invisible being caused this because he was mad at how they were living. God is Santa Claus. It's funny how christians think that atheists don't know anything about the bible. Actually, many atheists have reasearched religions more than christians have. People say that the bible is infallible. Those people don't even know what the Apocrypha is. It is a collection of books that were left out of the bible. Many have prominent women in them and that is why they were left out. The "go tell it on the mountain" mentallity is just a marketing tool. Christianity actually has no original ideas. Immaculate conception is not original. All christian holidays are an answer to pre-existing pagan holidays. There are no miracles. It is much more logical to see how man created god and not vice versa.

Hey Einstein the Apocrypha was left out of some PROTESTANT Bibles. But the Catholic Bible has included a lot of them. You atheists always pull that plow that you know more about the Bible than we do. I guess it works on stupid people.
 
imprtnrd said:
I believe there is a God. I also believe our bodies take on new souls after we die. Where else do all the souls come from that obtain a phsycial body? The bible does say "life is everlasting and there is no end".

Dude, where the **** where would an "immortal" soul go after death, if the universe is infinite?
 
George_Washington said:
Hey Einstein the Apocrypha was left out of some PROTESTANT Bibles. But the Catholic Bible has included a lot of them. You atheists always pull that plow that you know more about the Bible than we do. I guess it works on stupid people.

Name the books. And if you want to debate the bible, please explain the Joshua tree to me.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Name the books. And if you want to debate the bible, please explain the Joshua tree to me.

http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/apocrypha_exp.html

To quote that website:

"The Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches include all of the apocrypha (except for the books of Esdras and the Prayer of Manasseh), but refer to them as "deuterocanonical" books."

If you look in the New American Bible, they are all here except for those two.

Joshua tree? What exactly are you referring to?
 
George_Washington said:
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/apocrypha_exp.html

To quote that website:

"The Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches include all of the apocrypha (except for the books of Esdras and the Prayer of Manasseh), but refer to them as "deuterocanonical" books."

If you look in the New American Bible, they are all here except for those two.

Joshua tree? What exactly are you referring to?

When Joshua was in the desert and god "stopped the sun".

Here is a link of the books you think are in the bible(look under "Other Apocrypha"):

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
When Joshua was in the desert and god "stopped the sun".

Here is a link of the books you think are in the bible(look under "Other Apocrypha"):

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/

Right, the books under that section are not included but all of the what we call Deuterocanonical ones are except for Bel and Dragon and the other one.

The book of Joshua's purpose is to illustrate God's plan of giving the Jews the land that he had promised them to inherit. The preference to the Book of Joshua in my Bible reads:

"Their (The Jews) occupation of the country is begun with the crossing of the Jordan and the conquest of Jericho, in both of which the Lord intervenes on their behalf."

Then at the end it reads,

"The entire history of the conquest of the Promised Land is a prophecy of the spiritual conquest of the world through the Church under the leadership of Jesus the Messiah."

So that's basically the meaning of this book according to our interpretation of it, we view it as a prelude to the greater conquest of Jesus Christ through spiritual means.

About when God stopped the sun, I guess you're referring to Joshua's Victory against the Amorites? This is something God did for Joshua at his request, it symbolizes how God answers peoples' requests if they pray to him and ask him for help. The whole poem here was originally written in both the Book of Jashar and the Book of the Wars of the Lord. I'm not sure if they still have the Book of Jashar but the Book of the Wars of the Lord is kind of like a very old collection of Jewish songs that we thought existed at one time but has long since been lost. I suspect the Book of Jashar was probably lost a long time ago, too, but don't quote me on that.

Continuing on...the mention of the Sun being halted could have been due to the fact that Joshua and the Isrealites observed a day that seemed much longer than usual. It is also highly possibly that Joshua prayed for an abrupt obscuration of the sun, which would have stopped the Amorites from advancing on his troops. What could have occurred was that hailstorm came and obscured the sun, at least from full view. Hence the reference to, "Great stones from the sky." So the Jews were probably observing bad weather, basically.
 
Sun, stand still over Gibeon, and moon, you also, over the Vale of Aijalon'. And the sun stood still, and the moon halted, till the people had vengeance on their enemies." (Joshua 10:12-13).

"Is this not written in the Book of the Just? The sun stood still in the middle of the sky and delayed its setting for almost a whole day (making one day into almost two). There was never a day like that before or since, when God obeyed the voice of a man, for God was fighting for Israel." (Joshua 10:12-14).

Do you know what would happen if the earth stopped rotating? Annihilation. BTW, The sun doesn't move. So much for the infallible word of god. And why did god stop fighting for Isreal? It is hardly the promised land. How come god didn't tell "his people" to cross the Atlantic Ocean. If I were to believe in a god, it most certainly wouldn't be one who's word was in subjective poetry. My god would say exactly what he meant. Is god superstitious. He fancies certain numbers: 3, 7, 12...etc. Yes, man created god in their image.
 
George_Washington said:
Hey Einstein the Apocrypha was left out of some PROTESTANT Bibles. But the Catholic Bible has included a lot of them. You atheists always pull that plow that you know more about the Bible than we do. I guess it works on stupid people.


I dont suppose you have ever thought....even for a moment that some so called "Athiests" are such because they HAVE read the Bibles...and simply decided it was not for them. What about us Pagans that were raised in the church and simply outgrew the Dogma...(as well as the mentality you seem to project). To be honest, if it were not for people such as yourself, Many who have left the fold....would consider returning.
 
tecoyah said:
I dont suppose you have ever thought....even for a moment that some so called "Athiests" are such because they HAVE read the Bibles...and simply decided it was not for them. What about us Pagans that were raised in the church and simply outgrew the Dogma...(as well as the mentality you seem to project). To be honest, if it were not for people such as yourself, Many who have left the fold....would consider returning.

The Bible is simply mythology, nothing more, nothing less. It was always written by ancient transcribers who, according to the prejudices of the time, distorted it's original meanings. If you believe the Bible to be factual, who's to say you don't buy into the Easter Bunny, or Santa Clause, or the Tooth Fairy? These are all dark-ages myths.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Sun, stand still over Gibeon, and moon, you also, over the Vale of Aijalon'. And the sun stood still, and the moon halted, till the people had vengeance on their enemies." (Joshua 10:12-13).

"Is this not written in the Book of the Just? The sun stood still in the middle of the sky and delayed its setting for almost a whole day (making one day into almost two). There was never a day like that before or since, when God obeyed the voice of a man, for God was fighting for Israel." (Joshua 10:12-14).

My translation says "Jashar" and not Just. What translation are you using? I am using the New American Bible because I believe it is the most accurate. Unlike other translation like the King James version and the NIV, ours goes beyond the Latin Vulgate to the oldest texts that we know about.

Do you know what would happen if the earth stopped rotating? Annihilation. BTW, The sun doesn't move. So much for the infallible word of god. And why did god stop fighting for Isreal? It is hardly the promised land. How come god didn't tell "his people" to cross the Atlantic Ocean. If I were to believe in a god, it most certainly wouldn't be one who's word was in subjective poetry. My god would say exactly what he meant. Is god superstitious. He fancies certain numbers: 3, 7, 12...etc. Yes, man created god in their image.

It was just a poem, it didn't mean the sun literally stopped. Like I said, the reference of "great stones in the sky" could have meant that the Jews encountered a hail storm. God could have sent this storm. I don't know if God has really stopped fighting for Israel. I personally think that the US support of Israel shows that he wants to still fight for his people. But look, if you want a God that acts differently, fine. I'm just trying to explain to you my interpretation. You're free to believe whatever you choose.
 
tecoyah said:
I dont suppose you have ever thought....even for a moment that some so called "Athiests" are such because they HAVE read the Bibles...and simply decided it was not for them. What about us Pagans that were raised in the church and simply outgrew the Dogma...(as well as the mentality you seem to project). To be honest, if it were not for people such as yourself, Many who have left the fold....would consider returning.

Sorry if I sounded hostile but dude it's just some atheists constantly want to bash us. But look, I don't think I've really shown a hostile attitude on this forum. I think I've been pretty fair to everybody. Sheesh. And us Christians don't always have to act "perfect," I hate it when atheists expect us to be like that. We're human just like anybody else, we're fallible people. God love us despite our imperfections. We strive to be better people, yes, but don't expect us to be push overs. I was just trying to point out the fact that we include a great many number of the apocrypha books in our Bible.

And look if you want to be an atheist, fine, I'm not on here to shove my religion on anybody.
 
Jonah 1: 17
Now God had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah, and Jonah was in the belly for three days and three nights.

Jonah 2:10
And God spoke unto the fish, and it vomited Jonah upon the dry land.

C'mon, do you Bible-thumpers really buy these fairy stories? The truth is, if there was such a fish, the gastric juices of such an animal would have digested Jonah without any hope of him returning to "dry land." If you believe in this, keep it in your own backyard.
 
George_Washington said:
My translation says "Jashar" and not Just. What translation are you using? I am using the New American Bible because I believe it is the most accurate. Unlike other translation like the King James version and the NIV, ours goes beyond the Latin Vulgate to the oldest texts that we know about.



It was just a poem, it didn't mean the sun literally stopped. Like I said, the reference of "great stones in the sky" could have meant that the Jews encountered a hail storm. God could have sent this storm. I don't know if God has really stopped fighting for Israel. I personally think that the US support of Israel shows that he wants to still fight for his people. But look, if you want a God that acts differently, fine. I'm just trying to explain to you my interpretation. You're free to believe whatever you choose.

Hmmm debating translations of subjective texts. I don't buy that. Buy the way, I am not attacking you personally, but I find it funny that christians conveniently take the bible literally when it suits them and it is symbolic when it suits them.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Hmmm debating translations of subjective texts. I don't buy that. Buy the way, I am not attacking you personally, but I find it funny that christians conveniently take the bible literally when it suits them and it is symbolic when it suits them.
Again the bible has a depth to it.it takes studying, not just reading.Look at the commandment-"Thou shalt not kill". If you look up the ancient Hebrew word that was translated "kill" actually means murder...George Washington is right, there are translations that get things wrong.Publishers want to crank out more and more new translations since the Holy Bible is the biggest all time best seller. People that translate for the money will get things wrong everytime esp when they attempt to update it.There is a translation that is more "gender friendly".It changes some of the men words to women......I've heard some bad things about the translation that I use NIV and I'm in the market for a New King James version, I hear it's very dependable.
 
alienken said:
Again the bible has a depth to it.it takes studying, not just reading.Look at the commandment-"Thou shalt not kill". If you look up the ancient Hebrew word that was translated "kill" actually means murder...George Washington is right, there are translations that get things wrong.Publishers want to crank out more and more new translations since the Holy Bible is the biggest all time best seller. People that translate for the money will get things wrong everytime esp when they attempt to update it.There is a translation that is more "gender friendly".It changes some of the men words to women......I've heard some bad things about the translation that I use NIV and I'm in the market for a New King James version, I hear it's very dependable.

So the infallible word of the all-powerful god can be translated wrong? hmmmmm, did you know that the word gullible was taken out of the dictionary?
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
So the infallible word of the all-powerful god can be translated wrong? hmmmmm, did you know that the word gullible was taken out of the dictionary?


It can be translated wrong just like anything can. Newton can also be translated wrong but does that mean his theories were completely bogus? No, of course not. And not *everything* in the Bible is directly from God, this is a misconception. Like the poem in Joshua we looked at was written by Hebrews, by humans. In their preception they thought they were seeing the sun stop. They didn't know back then that the Earth actually moves around the sun. This wasn't God saying that the sun stopped, this was *their* perception. All they knew was that God had answered their prayers, which is true. It's just the way he went about it can obviously be thought about.
 
May I make a request? Can we please support our comments with actual Scientific evidence: Proven, researched or tested answers - not eyewitness accounts from hundreds or years ago, or "the bible says.....".

Scientific Evidence (SE) is basically another way of saying 'The actual Truth', so if we use SE we can wrap this up a lot quicker
 
pwo said:
Don't try to judge people like Bush if you are not christian. He tries to live in a good manner like any christian but he's only human. What? do you want him to turn the other cheek after 9/11.
Who cares if bugs die? Thou shall not kill humans!!! Churches of course do good charity work to cure diseases.

As far as religion goes. I'm sorry but if you don't understand then you don't understand. Maybe someday you'll change.

Yeah he,s only human, who doesnt murder people en mass for economic gain now and again? easy mistake to make eh? only this morning i was walking by a gas station and *bang* killed everyone there, nicked the fuel, i just cant help myself.

Mind you bush has done some fantasitic things, blaged his way into the white house despite loseing an election, gets most of the fundamentalist vote despite ignoreing most of the bible......
 
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