• Please keep all posts on the Rittenhouse verdict here: Rittenhouse Verdict. Note the moderator warnings in the thread. The thread will be heavily moderated with a zero tolerance policy for any baiting, flaming, trolling or other rule breaks. Stick to the topic and not the other posters. Thank you.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is the USA skrewed?

Is the USA skrewed?

  • yes

    Votes: 10 37.0%
  • no

    Votes: 17 63.0%

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .

MikeVFF

Active member
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
276
Reaction score
64
Location
VT
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Pretty self explanatory? Do you think we will ever be able to recover environmentally, politically, and economically? I honestly dont.
 

Gipper

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
25,116
Reaction score
7,658
Location
Theoretical Physics Lab
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Easily. If you're asking if we'll ever make it back to Clinton levels, I'm not sure. But quit painting this a doomsday scenario. Business cycles do exist, you know...unless you're one of those Marxists.
 

Aunt Spiker

Cheese
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
28,431
Reaction score
16,987
Location
Sasnakra
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
Yeah, really - of what?

We'll have surges of income like we did when Clinton was in office - we'll also have presidents who only gain poll-traction when they toot their horn on a TV show geared towards their minority constituents.
 

ptif219

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
13,156
Reaction score
1,038
Location
melbourne florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Yeah, really - of what?

We'll have surges of income like we did when Clinton was in office - we'll also have presidents who only gain poll-traction when they toot their horn on a TV show geared towards their minority constituents.


Environmentally we have no problems. The cap and tax bill Obama wants will increase the cost of everything. It will take generations to pay down Obama's spending and debt
 

ecofarm

global liberation
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
127,795
Reaction score
39,040
Location
Miami
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
If anyone can recover, it's the US. Population density in Europe is beyond control (mostly double or triple ours) and the developing world (including China) is still busy doing damage we stopped in the mid 20th century. China is devoid of real environmental regulations and even basic human rights - it's extremely fragile. So don't worry too much about us in particular. If we can't pull out of the dive, no one else can.


Your question (the OP), given reasonable knowledge of damage and capability to recover, would more aptly be put "Is civilization skrewed?"
 
Last edited:

d0gbreath

Yellow Dog Democrat
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
16,041
Reaction score
5,182
Location
There's my hat.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
Forget economically. We've been through the Great Depression and could easily handle that again. Environmental problems are constantly being worked on and improved. The smog in LA in 1965 could burn your eyes out. Politics have always been the same. Honestly, that's not even an important issue.

The glass is half full.
 

UtahBill

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
18,264
Reaction score
6,648
Location
Utah
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
We are most definitely screwed in some ways....
Selfish people of today and yesterday have mortgaged the future, and it will be our grandkids who will pay the price. Our standard of living will drop for a large percentage of us, but that will likely be a good thing. We won't recover until our expectations are lowered, and we learn to pay now for what we consume now....
 

USA_1

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
3,142
Reaction score
688
Location
BANNED
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Easily. If you're asking if we'll ever make it back to Clinton levels, I'm not sure. But quit painting this a doomsday scenario. Business cycles do exist, you know...unless you're one of those Marxists.

This isn't a business cycle. They destroyed the housing sector by manipulating demand. They sent manufacturing jobs overseas. We are dependant on other countries for our energy. We are buried in debt. It will be decades before we recover, if we ever do. The best times most likely are behind us.

Greed has destroyed this country.
 

Kandahar

Enemy Combatant
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
20,688
Reaction score
7,320
Location
Washington, DC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Pretty self explanatory? Do you think we will ever be able to recover environmentally, politically, and economically? I honestly dont.

Environmentally - As long as we don't see any sudden changes (i.e. total environmental collapse, followed or preceded by abrupt climate change), we'll be fine. We'll eventually transition to solar power instead of fossil fuels, and we'll have geoengineering techniques at our disposal to clean up existing damage. In fact, I would argue that we've ALREADY started to recover environmentally. We reached our low point decades ago, but environmental laws have ended some of the most egregious abuses.

Politically - I'm not sure what, specifically, you're referring to here. "Recover" implies that you aren't satisfied with the way things are now. Do you mean there's a guy in the White House you don't like, or do you mean in a more general sense?

Economically - Yeah, we'll recover. Recessions never have lasted forever, and I see no reason to expect this one to be any different. Technically, our economy has been booming for a year now...it just doesn't feel like it because we endured such a collapse the previous year, and unemployment continued to rise until about six months ago.
 

lizzie

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
28,580
Reaction score
31,552
Location
between two worlds
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Forget economically. We've been through the Great Depression and could easily handle that again.

I'm not so sure. The current group of Americans is soft and fat compared to the 1920's. People back then knew how to feed themselves. The vast majority today have very little or no survival skills. People in Africa and Haiti are much more suited to taking care of their own basic needs than Americans today.
 

USA_1

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
3,142
Reaction score
688
Location
BANNED
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Economically - Yeah, we'll recover. Recessions never have lasted forever, and I see no reason to expect this one to be any different. Technically, our economy has been booming for a year now...it just doesn't feel like it because we endured such a collapse the previous year, and unemployment continued to rise until about six months ago.
This recession is different. We have no more bubbles to pull us out of it and adding to our debt can go only so far.
 

Kandahar

Enemy Combatant
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
20,688
Reaction score
7,320
Location
Washington, DC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
This recession is different. We have no more bubbles to pull us out of it and adding to our debt can go only so far.

What do you mean no more bubbles to pull us out of it? There are always economic bubbles in the US economy. But what does that have to do with actual economic growth?

As for adding to our debt...the amount of a stimulus necessary to boost our economy would be a small fraction of our GDP. Even an extremely large stimulus would only increase our debt-to-GDP ratio by 10% or so.
 

USA_1

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
3,142
Reaction score
688
Location
BANNED
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
What do you mean no more bubbles to pull us out of it? There are always economic bubbles in the US economy. But what does that have to do with actual economic growth?

As for adding to our debt...the amount of a stimulus necessary to boost our economy would be a small fraction of our GDP. Even an extremely large stimulus would only increase our debt-to-GDP ratio by 10% or so.

The tech bubble pulled us out of the recession of the 80s. The housing bubble pulled us out of the recession of the late 90s caused by the bursting of the tech bubble. It was all fueled by debt. There are no more bubbles and we have not felt the worst of the last one yet.
 

Tubub

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Messages
521
Reaction score
97
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Once the Baby Boomers all "go away", it's all gravy.
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
268,818
Reaction score
85,376
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Pretty self explanatory? Do you think we will ever be able to recover environmentally, politically, and economically? I honestly dont.

The dems have spent 70+ years creating, expanding and subsidizing a permanent class of parasites and dependents. They now are breeding at much higher rates than those of us who don't start having children until we complete our educations and establish ourselves in the work place. Too many fleas and not enough dogs
 

Orion

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
8,080
Reaction score
3,916
Location
Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Once the Baby Boomers all "go away", it's all gravy.

Do you really think the next generation is going to be any better? I mean, the owners of industry are just going to hand off their power to their kids.
 

Kandahar

Enemy Combatant
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
20,688
Reaction score
7,320
Location
Washington, DC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
The tech bubble pulled us out of the recession of the 80s. The housing bubble pulled us out of the recession of the late 90s caused by the bursting of the tech bubble. It was all fueled by debt. There are no more bubbles and we have not felt the worst of the last one yet.

You seem to be under the impression that busts are the natural state of affairs, and booms are just illusions. This is not correct. They are both just deviations from the average, which is a modest increase in economic growth over time.
 

Tubub

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Messages
521
Reaction score
97
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
The next generations already exist bud.

As Thomas Friedman said in one form or another: The Baby Boomers, like locusts, ate through the abundance provided by The Greatest Generation. Now, we must form a "regeneration" to propel our economy and nation.

Frank Schaeffer: The Failed President And The New "Greatest Generation"

The New Greatest Generation

The Greatest Generation: Today's Veterans Measure Up to Those From WWII and Vietnam - ABC News

Another Greatest Generation Is On The Way - Forbes.com

Another Greatest Generation Is On The Way - Forbes.com
 

Tubub

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Messages
521
Reaction score
97
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Laugh it off. I'm happy you have the luxury. Wait, no I'm not! But all I can do at this point is foot your bill, huh? You're like a bunch of little FAT kids that came and ordered wayy too much for yourselves, and now the adults are gonna have to step in and wash the dishes all night to pay it off. I guess that's funny for you...
 

lizzie

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
28,580
Reaction score
31,552
Location
between two worlds
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Libertarian
You're going to be footing alot of bills, but they won't be mine. I'm footing my own plus a couple of extras. And no, it's not funny to me that the bills are going to be unpayable. It's funny that so many young people support our government spending us into oblivion and have no idea what it's going to do to the country. People like myself who are fiscally responsible are outraged that any business is too big to fail, and believe that what's going on in DC is insanity.
 

Tubub

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Messages
521
Reaction score
97
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
40 years ago your generation was protesting the Vietnam war and has simply traded the "I'll burn my draft card" signs for the "I won't pay my taxes" ones. Don't get wrong, there were many that served honorably in Vietnam, but the prime heroes to come out of that war(Colin Powell, Join McCain, David Hackworth) were not Baby Boomers, and they were lost among a sea of narcissistic cowards anyway. It's very telling that the two presidents of that generation were draft dodgers. Sorry, but this nation needs to move on.
 

d0gbreath

Yellow Dog Democrat
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
16,041
Reaction score
5,182
Location
There's my hat.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
I'm not so sure. The current group of Americans is soft and fat compared to the 1920's. People back then knew how to feed themselves. The vast majority today have very little or no survival skills. People in Africa and Haiti are much more suited to taking care of their own basic needs than Americans today.

We would all be thinner and more active.
 
Top Bottom