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Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist?


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No, it is one black saying "your attitude is not appropriate for a black person.
Your attitude is inferior to mine."

Also race is at least partially a physical characteristic whereas idealism is not a
physical attribute. therefore the two should not be conflated. You cannot possibly
say that one is inferior because of his race without being a racist. It is possible
to say that one's ideas are inferior without being a racist.
You're splitting hairs. Yes, it's an attitude... an attitude based on racial biases.
 
No, it is one black saying "your attitude is not appropriate for a black person.
Your attitude is inferior to mine."

Also race is at least partially a physical characteristic whereas idealism is not a
physical attribute. therefore the two should not be conflated. You cannot possibly
say that one is inferior because of his race without being a racist. It is possible
to say that one's ideas are inferior without being a racist.

I agree...

And one more time...I know everybody is sick of me posting it, but most people...white and black...don't know the full story or even the true story behind "Uncle Tom". And that knowing history is essential in understanding what you just posted.
 
I disagree with that, an insult is not in itself racist. In this case, calling Clarance Thomas an Uncle Tom is not suggesting he is inferior because of his race, so it is not racist.

Agreed, it definitely is a pejorative, but it's not racist. Where is your vote?
 
I think it's racist. It's a derogatory term for blacks.
 
Generally the term Uncle Tom is used amongst black people to describe others whom we view as sell-outs and traitors to the race, who have lined up with groups that want to oppress and harm blacks as a whole. Given that context, I do find it offensive when non-black people use the term to describe blacks as it really is something that is mainly kept within the black community.

Yeah, it's really bizarre that anyone would argue that it doesn't have racial overtones. I also see it as demanding african americans (who I see as culturally distinct from "blacks") adhere to a specific stereotyped set of behavior and standards.
 
It was inappropriate in the example that has recently come up, but because the guy who was talking about Clarence Thomas was white. It is not an inherently racist term. It does not degrade the person it is used on merely for their race. It is meant to be a criticism of one's actions from a member of the same group, be it race, religion, gender, whatever. A pro choice woman could certainly call an anti abortion woman an Uncle Tom. That it refers to a black character does not make it racist. But the point is that it criticizes a person for their actions, for their betrayal. It is not exclusive to blacks, despite the origin.

This is just faux conservative outrage by people who have never experienced actual discrimination and don't know how to recognize it when it happens.

I have never heard it used in any other context, but race
 
Actually no. What you are describing are the differences in behavior that come from one's socioeconomic background. One can be a middle or upper-class back person and not be an Uncle Tom. The main behavior of an Uncle Tom is that they adamantly are willing to sell out black people or betray the race for their own personal gains or to look better in the eyes of whites. For an example of this, all one need to do is look at the character Uncle Ruckus from the tv series The Boondocks, although they obviously aren't that extreme in real life.

You shouldn't overlook the fact that "tom" is the upper middle class black guy, with a white wife and law degree ...

As in, Uncle tom can be used rather freely these days and in the same context of the discussion surrounding Obama's "blackness"
 
I think it's racist. It's a derogatory term for blacks.

You're right in that it's derogatory, but it's usually a term that one black will make reference to another.
 
You're right in that it's derogatory, but it's usually a term that one black will make reference to another.

That still makes it racist. Just because a black person says it does not make it no longer a racist remark.
 
No, it doesn't have to do with the person being black enough, but rather has to do with their actions and specifically how those actions are done for their own personal enrichment at the expense of the black community. For example, a slave who goes and tells the master that other slaves are planning to escape would be an Uncle Tom.

I appreciate your definition - it just doesn't jibe with calling Clarence Thomas an Uncle Tom, in my view - I can't see anything that Justice Thomas has done that has enriched himself to the detriment of his race.

That said, I don't agree with expecting people to espouse what I'll call nativistic type policy positions in order to be true to your race. I, personally, think the strongest way to respect and celebrate your own race is to be the best person you can be not just the best (enter race here) person you can be. It's part of the reason, I think, that many Americans supported President Obama, even if they didn't agree with all of his policy positions.

If anything, one could argue that President Obama has been far more an Uncle Tom than Justice Thomas in that African Americans during Obama's Presidency have not benefitted at all and one could argue that his push for immigration reform is to the benefit of his own personal enrichment, legacy, at the direct expense of young black Americans who are the most unemployed and underemployed of any demographic in American society today.
 
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Legree.jpg

An image attached to Uncle Tom.

Racist? what do you think...
 
To XFactor and CanadaJohn, I am not personally arguing if Justice Thomas is or is not a Tom, only how some can argue that he is a Tom.
 
You're splitting hairs.
It is not hair-splitting to distinguish between:

(1) physical characteristics, such as racial ancestry, which a
person does not have control over,

and (2) mental attitude, such as an accommodating approach
toward discrimination, which a person does have control over.


Yes, it's an attitude... an attitude based on racial biases.
I do not agree, but for the sake of argument let's say you are right.
Racist motivation cannot turn a non-racist accusation into a racist
one. A racist who is robbed at gunpoint by a Black may legitimately
call his assailant a "low-life scumbag." Armed robbers are low-life scumbags.
 
I did not defend the comment. In fact I was very clear that it was a vile comment. [/b]Not being racist does not make it ok.[/b] I love watching conservatives try and make things about what they are not.

You've redeemed yourself.
 
That still makes it racist. Just because a black person says it does not make it no longer a racist remark.

Digs, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. The term comes from a revised version of a book in which the character, Uncle Tom, who basically betrays or sells out other of his own race for personal gain. The original version was a 180 degrees from the revision. Uncle Tom winds up dying for his family and community.

But unfortunately...the revision became a derogatory metaphor.
 
To XFactor and CanadaJohn, I am not personally arguing if Justice Thomas is or is not a Tom, only how some can argue that he is a Tom.

I just want to take this opportunity to thank you for your comments in this thread. I've learned a great deal from your explanations and the perspective of the black community on terms that I, for one, thought I understood... but didn't.

Good job, I appreciate it! :)
 
X...okay.

Uncle Tom is simply a term used to imply or state that a black person has defected and or abandoned the black culture...in context to the story...in which the term is derived from.

If you choose to call it "race related"..so be it...

And no...white judges aren't going to be considered uncle toms because the term...didn't derive from a story about a "white" uncle tom...who became a turn-coat of sorts against whites.

It might behove you to read "Uncle Tom's Cabin" to grasp the differences in who he was in the book verse how he as completely recreated to make a movie.

Except that the argument has been made in this thread that the term is completely separate from race (in order to claim it's not racist). I agree with you that that is clearly not true.
 
I just want to take this opportunity to thank you for your comments in this thread. I've learned a great deal from your explanations and the perspective of the black community on terms that I, for one, thought I understood... but didn't.

Good job, I appreciate it! :)

Well, I am glad that you learned, but do keep in mind that I don't represent the entire black community, although I think a lot of other black people would agree with me on the definition. :)
 
I don't really think any term is inherently racist. I wouldn't really call the way it was used in the situation I believed the OP was referencing racist either. Like some here have said, I think racist gets thrown around a lot in places where it really isn't. Of course, I believe in this case it was used as a pejorative and was completely uncalled for. Just because it wasn't racist does not make it less disgusting.
 
All too often I've seen the term simply used to mean a black person who is conservative or has some conservative values. It happens repeatedly, case in point; it took like 3 posts for the OP of this thread to be referred to as an Uncle Tom (or female equivalent).

http://www.debatepolitics.com/zimme...s-illiteracy-have-place-any-court-system.html

Can we stop pretending it's some legit/fair criticism rather than the bludgeon it actually is?
 
All too often I've seen the term simply used to mean a black person who is conservative or has some conservative values. It happens repeatedly, case in point; it took like 3 posts for the OP of this thread to be referred to as an Uncle Tom (or female equivalent).

http://www.debatepolitics.com/zimme...s-illiteracy-have-place-any-court-system.html

Can we stop pretending it's some legit/fair criticism rather than the bludgeon it actually is?

That is definitely the way I've most seen it used. Those who use the term that way believe that the Democratic party represents the black community best and that any black person who goes against it is betraying what is best for his/her community for their own self-interests. It's an emotional appeal trying to get someone to go one way, even if it goes against what they believe, out of a duty to their race.

Also I hate you for linking to a Z/M thread and making me read some of that ****fest.
 
That is definitely the way I've most seen it used. Those who use the term that way believe that the Democratic party represents the black community best and that any black person who goes against it is betraying what is best for his/her community for their own self-interests. It's an emotional appeal trying to get someone to go one way, even if it goes against what they believe, out of a duty to their race.

Also I hate you for linking to a Z/M thread and making me read some of that ****fest.

Heh, sorry about that. I didn't even realize which forum that was in. Normally, I prefer to spend my forum time in more peaceful surroundings, like Abortion or CT. :D
 
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