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Is the Soviet Union actually a success story of Marxism?

Moderate71

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These videos and the article I linked dispel the myth that the people in the USSR were unhappy and suffered. Also, I've read that the reason the USSR failed is because of a combination of USA sabotage and internal flirting with capitalism. The main reason, however, was Gorbachev betraying Marxism and implementing aspects of Capitalism. Also, it did survive over 70 years.





Also, it seems most Russians want the USSR back, except hope for an implementation of Communism that doesn't betray the teachings of Karl Marx.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/08/soviet-empire-poll_n_5288261.html
 
These videos and the article I linked dispel the myth that the people in the USSR were unhappy and suffered. Also, I've read that the reason the USSR failed is because of a combination of USA sabotage and internal flirting with capitalism. The main reason, however, was Gorbachev betraying Marxism and implementing aspects of Capitalism. Also, it did survive over 70 years.





Also, it seems most Russians want the USSR back, except hope for an implementation of Communism that doesn't betray the teachings of Karl Marx.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/08/soviet-empire-poll_n_5288261.html


No, no, no....
 
70 years is not very long a time span in human history.
It failed because it went against human nature.

Us humans want our bellies full, and to be warm in winter, and have ass wipe when we poop.
One year the USSR did not even give their people toilet paper. They had to use cut up pages of Pravda. Some considered it appropriate.
Never live in a country that has huge posters of its leader everywhere you go.

This is why there are only two countries in the entire world now that practices it.
Cuba and North Korea....and most will agree it sucks to live there.

It goes against human nature.

If I work hard and have 30 chickens because of excellent animal husbandry techniques, I should not have to give away 25 of my chickens to idiots who sat on their asses and drank all day.

Every economic and political system has its drawbacks, but Marxism and communism are at the bottom of the barrel and have failed miserably world-wide.
 
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These videos and the article I linked dispel the myth that the people in the USSR were unhappy and suffered. Also, I've read that the reason the USSR failed is because of a combination of USA sabotage and internal flirting with capitalism. The main reason, however, was Gorbachev betraying Marxism and implementing aspects of Capitalism. Also, it did survive over 70 years.





Also, it seems most Russians want the USSR back, except hope for an implementation of Communism that doesn't betray the teachings of Karl Marx.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/08/soviet-empire-poll_n_5288261.html


The ussr was failing since the 70's, they still remained a massive military power until they collapsed and contributed much to science and technology, but their collapse was happening before gorbachov. The problem with a high end central govt is that the top does not know how to rule the bottom, they see numbers and take little care in evaluating each situation, while medium and small govts like many other nations had allowed governing at all levels to account for each challenge. There was also massive corruption in the soviet union which the kgb uncovered in the 70's, on paper atleast to what the soviet leaders knew the ussr was near utopia, however many local members were fudging the numbers to look good, and the kgb found out when doing their missions when reports of prosperous siberian town xyz turned out to be people dying of starvation and communist party members pencil whipping the numbers to look good.

After the kgb uncovered the heavy corruption, it was already too late, communist leaders before and up to gorbachov tried to end the bleeding which they did not know even existed until the kgb discovered it and tried different methods to salvage it. In the end it was far from utopia, at best it worked liked feudalism, it was functional and allowed wartime and peacetime control of resources, but was unable to compete with other systems unless no other system existed or they were in a state of nonstop war where other systems would be unable to function.
 
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Being too weak to go into the fields because of lack of food but being whipped onto the fields anyways 66 hours a week to farm food that the state takes all of and OH BTW if you are seen eating any of it or otherwise stealing any of it you might well be killed for treason I think they called it is one Hell of a way to live.
 
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These videos and the article I linked dispel the myth that the people in the USSR were unhappy and suffered.

To quote one of the videos... "Stalin made mistakes" ? Yeah, I guess just like "Hitler made mistakes"... I am sure it won't take you long to find videos showing how Nazi Germany was great too.

I would agree that most people did not "suffer", despite living in some of the smallest quarters per person in the world. However, plenty of people DID suffer - you know, the ones that did not agree with Polit Bureau or just had the wrong ethnicity. If you fit in (as many did), you were fine and happy. If you did not, too bad.
 
Is the Soviet Union actually a success story of Marxism?

No. The USSR endured for but ~70 years. Success on a nation-state level is measured in centuries, not decades.
 
These videos and the article I linked dispel the myth that the people in the USSR were unhappy and suffered. Also, I've read that the reason the USSR failed is because of a combination of USA sabotage and internal flirting with capitalism. The main reason, however, was Gorbachev betraying Marxism and implementing aspects of Capitalism. Also, it did survive over 70 years.





Also, it seems most Russians want the USSR back, except hope for an implementation of Communism that doesn't betray the teachings of Karl Marx.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/08/soviet-empire-poll_n_5288261.html


Well according to Chomsky the expert on these subjects the Soviet Union did not practice Marxism.
 
These videos and the article I linked dispel the myth that the people in the USSR were unhappy and suffered. Also, I've read that the reason the USSR failed is because of a combination of USA sabotage and internal flirting with capitalism. The main reason, however, was Gorbachev betraying Marxism and implementing aspects of Capitalism. Also, it did survive over 70 years.





Also, it seems most Russians want the USSR back, except hope for an implementation of Communism that doesn't betray the teachings of Karl Marx.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/08/soviet-empire-poll_n_5288261.html


Soviets were happy on propagandist films. Not shown were the 30 million brutally murdered by atheistic Russian tyrants for being a 'hindrance' of one sort or another. I don't say "God Bless the Godless Russian Dictators." I say "Goddamn the ungodly Russian tyrants and their godless system of brutal atheistic communism."
 
These videos and the article I linked dispel the myth that the people in the USSR were unhappy and suffered. Also, I've read that the reason the USSR failed is because of a combination of USA sabotage and internal flirting with capitalism. The main reason, however, was Gorbachev betraying Marxism and implementing aspects of Capitalism. Also, it did survive over 70 years.





Also, it seems most Russians want the USSR back, except hope for an implementation of Communism that doesn't betray the teachings of Karl Marx.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/08/soviet-empire-poll_n_5288261.html
The people of the Soviet union were indeed unhappy and the system was atrocious, but there was evidence of success.

They failed trying to compete with a goliath over the #1 spot, but at the beginning of the project they were essentially a 3rd world agricultural monarchy. If they had taken their time and fed their people instead of exporting everything for the good of the motherland at the expense of the people (sounds like facism), it may have been a resounding success.
 
WW2 took a heavy toll on the USSR and they didn't get money from America to rebuild, like the western-European countries did. Had their been no WW2 or Stalin, things may have worked out differently. It was a good opportunity gone to waste.
 
WW2 took a heavy toll on the USSR and they didn't get money from America to rebuild, like the western-European countries did. Had their been no WW2 or Stalin, things may have worked out differently. It was a good opportunity gone to waste.
Unfortunately, stalin didnt cause the problem, Lenin did. Stalin and his 5 year plans are responsible for the brutal but effective rise of the USSR from 3rd world to super power, but his paranoid rise to power was thanks to Lenin who consolidated power by killing off all his fellow revolutionaries.

If it were not for Lenin the Soviet union may actually have become communist, but instead it became just another dictatorship from the very beginning. I believe it would have turned out much different if this was a team effort like with the founding fathers instead of a 1 man selfish power grab.
 
These videos and the article I linked dispel the myth that the people in the USSR were unhappy and suffered. Also, I've read that the reason the USSR failed is because of a combination of USA sabotage and internal flirting with capitalism. The main reason, however, was Gorbachev betraying Marxism and implementing aspects of Capitalism. Also, it did survive over 70 years.





Also, it seems most Russians want the USSR back, except hope for an implementation of Communism that doesn't betray the teachings of Karl Marx.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/08/soviet-empire-poll_n_5288261.html


Except it wasn’t only the Soviet Union. It’s been anywhere communism has been tried: China, Cuba, N. Korea, all the countries of the former Soviet bloc, etc....

The experiment has been run numerous times, under all sorts of various conditions. The results always seem to be the same: economic stagnation, tyranny, and corruption.

It was an interesting thought. Maybe there are elements of it that can be salvaged. But to think that the original idea still is viable is foolish at this point.

www.amazon.com/gp/aw/cr/0415389577/ref=mw_dp_cr
 
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Except it wasn’t only the Soviet Union. It’s been anywhere communism has been tried: China, Cuba, N. Korea, etc....

The experiment has been run numerous times, under all sorts of various conditions. The results always seem to be the same: economic stagnation, tyranny, and corruption.

It was an interesting thought. Maybe there are elements of it that can be salvaged. But to think that the original idea still is viable is foolish at this point.

www.amazon.com/gp/aw/cr/0415389577/ref=mw_dp_cr
Except all of these "communisms" were all started by a single man crowning himself supreme. It seems none of these countries tried communism which eventually turned into dictatorships.... they were dictatorships from the start.

Syria calls itself a democratic republic. Does that mean you believe it is a democratic republic?
 
The ussr was failing since the 70's, they still remained a massive military power until they collapsed and contributed much to science and technology, but their collapse was happening before gorbachov. The problem with a high end central govt is that the top does not know how to rule the bottom, they see numbers and take little care in evaluating each situation, while medium and small govts like many other nations had allowed governing at all levels to account for each challenge. There was also massive corruption in the soviet union which the kgb uncovered in the 70's, on paper atleast to what the soviet leaders knew the ussr was near utopia, however many local members were fudging the numbers to look good, and the kgb found out when doing their missions when reports of prosperous siberian town xyz turned out to be people dying of starvation and communist party members pencil whipping the numbers to look good.

After the kgb uncovered the heavy corruption, it was already too late, communist leaders before and up to gorbachov tried to end the bleeding which they did not know even existed until the kgb discovered it and tried different methods to salvage it. In the end it was far from utopia, at best it worked liked feudalism, it was functional and allowed wartime and peacetime control of resources, but was unable to compete with other systems unless no other system existed or they were in a state of nonstop war where other systems would be unable to function.

The KGB found Soviet corruption? They pretty close to invented it for God sake.
 
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Except it wasn’t only the Soviet Union. It’s been anywhere communism has been tried: China, Cuba, N. Korea, all the countries of the former Soviet bloc, etc....

The experiment has been run numerous times, under all sorts of various conditions. The results always seem to be the same: economic stagnation, tyranny, and corruption.

It was an interesting thought. Maybe there are elements of it that can be salvaged. But to think that the original idea still is viable is foolish at this point.

www.amazon.com/gp/aw/cr/0415389577/ref=mw_dp_cr

You are IMO correct. The other comment made in this thread that is accurate is the inability for those at the top to actually deal with what is happening underneath them. They generally succumb to the easy and ready corruption available in such a top heavy system masquerading as a bottom heavy system.

The only place where Communism has a shot is a place with very meager resources. Vietnam has made it work for all intents and purposes. There is literally nowhere else.

The collapse of the Soviet Union was inevitable because of the inherent weaknesses that rise to the surface of any effort to convert a system to Communism. It certainly did not help that Russia had the other worst governing system in "modern" human history before that, Royalty which outlived its usefulness just about everywhere by the 16th-17th centuries.

The Soviet problem was exacerbated by a lack of fundamental resources to support such a large population. They were resource poor especially when compared to their population. The existence of the Soviet Union allowed Russia to hide that issue better because while it was a bigger problem in the old Soviet Union it is always easier to hide your issue if you have a bigger blanket to hide under. Russia by itself is the same problem in microcosm. Too few resources trying to support too many people. Riussia is a nothing economy going nowhere. That issue of too few resources trying to house, feed and employ too many people spurs corruption.

Lets take the United States for comparison. We were able to throw off Royalty pretty early in the development of this place from a colony. We had a relatively small population living off of what was a wealth of resources. We were developing at at time when two big oceans actually did allow us for the most part to develop without having to deal with rivals right on our borders fighting cultural battles with us or trying to take our resources from us. If Donald Duck does not screw it up, we still have marvelous relationships with our land border neighbors when you consider what Europe has to deal with for example.
 
When Communism fell, many people in Russia and Eastern Europe were actually upset.

Just imagine: They were given their jobs, their apartments, health care. They didn't have to worry about being unemployed. They didn't have to worry about getting medical attention (even though it was substandard for ordinary folks). They didn't have to worry about paying high rent (even though their cramped quarters were in shoddily built buildings).

I have a suspicion that some elderly people still feel nostalgia for the days of Communism.

The young, of course, have no idea of a cradle-to-grave economy, so they no doubt have happily accepted a mixture of capitalism and socialism, just as we have here in the States (I love Medicare and Social Security).


If Stalin had not been so ruthless and paranoid, maybe today people in the world would be praising him for his accomplishments.
 
Except all of these "communisms" were all started by a single man crowning himself supreme. It seems none of these countries tried communism which eventually turned into dictatorships.... they were dictatorships from the start.

Syria calls itself a democratic republic. Does that mean you believe it is a democratic republic?

But that sort of centralized planning required for a communist system seems to always lead to that sort of strong centralized power. Could be more of an unavoidable feature of the system than any sort of historical contingency or accident of the way it was implemented in one place or other. Like I said, that seems to have arisen everywhere it was attempted, from China to Cuba. That can’t just be an accident.
 
The people of the Soviet union were indeed unhappy and the system was atrocious, but there was evidence of success.

They failed trying to compete with a goliath over the #1 spot, but at the beginning of the project they were essentially a 3rd world agricultural monarchy. If they had taken their time and fed their people instead of exporting everything for the good of the motherland at the expense of the people (sounds like facism), it may have been a resounding success.

"...exporting everything...". Really? What did they export?

Mao starved the Chinese to send food to the USSR, so that he could get military equipment. How was the USSR exporting anything?
 
The KGB found Soviet corruption? They pretty close to invented it for God sake.

Yes they found soviet corruption, well I should say soviet corruption the soviet union was not aware of. The soviet union was always corrupt from the party leaders to military leaders and even their kgb, however some of the corruption at the lower levels was not known, and it is hard to save a system when you do not know it has a problem until it is too late.
 
You have to admit that the USSR was quite a superpower for a long time considering the USA and NATO sabotaged its ability to trade goods. Then, when you look at how its leaders were not only incompetent and corrupt, except also betrayed the teachings of Karl Marx to such an extent, its actually amazing the nation shined as brightly as it did for as long as it did.
 
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