Is The Russian Invasion of Ukraine a Crime Against Humanity?

[Allan]

For the purposes of this poll we can use the Nuremberg definition of a Crime Against Humanity:

"To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

 

[Monica33]

Indeed it is .
To see the US essentially repeating the same type of nonsense that they stupidly used to claim that there was a Russian 'invasion 'of US politics . Shot down in flames .

Well done Russia for slapping the US into its now won place of failed Empire and major planet terrorist nation .
The good thing is that the US has an unbroken record of failure whenever it tries to impose its will on others .

Korea , Vietnam , Iraq , Libya , Syria , Somalia , Yemen and then the Afghanistan humiliation . A totally failed Empire that believed it was the mightiest .

 

[Litwin]

For the purposes of this poll we can use the Nuremberg definition of a Crime Against Humanity:

"To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

YES Allan, Swedish TV ask many times, why Pootler wants to kill Ukrainian civilians so badly ?

 

[MaryP]

For the purposes of this poll we can use the Nuremberg definition of a Crime Against Humanity:

"To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

He is initiating a war of aggression, yes.

I'm not sure how elevating it to the Nuremberg level accomplishes much, though.

 

[bluesmoke]

To be a crime against humanity the invasion would have to be widespread, or a systematic policy, directed against civilians, in wartime or not. Neither of which has been shown in Ukraine. Yet. In the unprovoked, preemptive invasion of Iraq, the numbers are all over the map. Best guess is about 25,000 Iraqi soldiers and about 200,000 Iraqi civilian violent deaths.

 

[Fabiusbile]

To be a crime against humanity the invasion would have to be widespread, or a systematic policy, directed against civilians, in wartime or not. Neither of which has been shown in Ukraine. Yet. In the unprovoked, preemptive invasion of Iraq, the numbers are all over the map. Best guess is about 25,000 Iraqi soldiers and about 200,000 Iraqi civilian violent deaths.

I'm afraid Alan is not in a position to take this impartially.
For him, the world is black and white. Where he is from the kingdom of the elves, and there are orcs, Hitler, etc.
Arguments that NATO has exactly the same episodes in a very recent history... nah, they don't work, he refuses to take it.

 

[MaryP]

To be a crime against humanity the invasion would have to be widespread, or a systematic policy, directed against civilians, in wartime or not. Neither of which has been shown in Ukraine. Yet. In the unprovoked, preemptive invasion of Iraq, the numbers are all over the map. Best guess is about 25,000 Iraqi soldiers and about 200,000 Iraqi civilian violent deaths.

We didn't invade Iraq to make it part of the US. This is naked territorial expansion on Putin's part, regardless of how much tap dancing y'all do to justify it.

 

[CaughtInThe]

 

[jpevans]

He is initiating a war of aggression, yes.

I'm not sure how elevating it to the Nuremberg level accomplishes much, though.

Not a war crimes trial, just a definition of the ultimate war crime.

"To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

 

[MaryP]

I'm afraid Alan is not in a position to take this impartially.
For him, the world is black and white. Where he is from the kingdom of the elves, and there are orcs, Hitler, etc.
Arguments that NATO has exactly the same episodes in a very recent history... nah, they don't work, he refuses to take it.

You're no orc; you're a Grima.
You can try to turn the world gray, but there is still right and wrong, and right now Putin is wrong.

 

[jpevans]

I'm afraid Alan is not in a position to take this impartially.
For him, the world is black and white. Where he is from the kingdom of the elves, and there are orcs, Hitler, etc.
Arguments that NATO has exactly the same episodes in a very recent history... nah, they don't work, he refuses to take it.

Perhaps Alan fears the U.S. taking a liking to Montreal if the Pooten lovin' R's return to power.

 

[Litwin]

Hitler

ivan

 

[MaryP]

Not a war crimes trial, just a definition of the ultimate war crime.

"To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

Well, being a bear of little brain, I see all wars as crimes against humanity. As @Helix put it so succinctly, "Humans are angry territorial monkeys. When we're gone, there will be no countries to blow things up about."

That doesn't mean I don't believe in fighting for our banana tree, though. If everyone had rolled over and played dead for Hitler, or Atilla, or ISIS, where would we be? I'm sure that's inconsistent somehow, but I'm okay with it.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

For the purposes of this poll we can use the Nuremberg definition of a Crime Against Humanity:

"To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

I mean, I guess this makes the United States guilty of crimes against humanity too. There’s kind of an unwritten secret here to the Nuremberg principles, which is that the Nuremberg principles were wholly drawn up to support victors justice against the Nazis. No I am not shedding a tear that a bunch of Nazis got hung, they deserved it, but let’s not be fooled, the Nuremberg principles do not apply to the parties that drew them up and they never will be unless somebody defeats those countries in a war.

 

[Allan]

He is initiating a war of aggression, yes.

I'm not sure how elevating it to the Nuremberg level accomplishes much, though.

The designation "Crime Against Humanity" is a descriptive term only as it isn't codified. We're simply giving our layperson's opinion.

 

[MaryP]

The designation "Crime Against Humanity" is a descriptive term only as it isn't codified. We're simply giving our layperson's opinion.

Adds a certain gravitas, though, doesn't it? And immediately takes us to thoughts of You Know Who?

So you asked us--what are your thoughts on it?

 

[Allan]

Adds a certain gravitas, though, doesn't it? And immediately takes us to thoughts of You Know Who?

Who?

So you asked us--what are your thoughts on it?

I think it meets the definition of a Crime Against Humanity in that it's an unprovoked invasion for territorial gain. The most similar recent comparison would be Saddam's invasion of Kuwait.

 

[MaryP]

I mean, I guess this makes the United States guilty of crimes against humanity too. There’s kind of an unwritten secret here to the Nuremberg principles, which is that the Nuremberg principles were wholly drawn up to support victors justice against the Nazis. No I am not shedding a tear that a bunch of Nazis got hung, they deserved it, but let’s not be fooled, the Nuremberg principles do not apply to the parties that drew them up and they never will be unless somebody defeats those countries in a war.

Everyone knows that. Duh.
To the victor go the spoils.
History is written by the victors.
Deal with it.

 

[MaryP]

Who?

Three guesses, Allan.

I think it meets the definition of a Crime Against Humanity in that it's an unprovoked invasion for territorial gain. The most similar recent comparison would be Saddam's invasion of Kuwait.

Agree. My heart aches for what the people of Ukraine are facing. I wish we could stop it.

 

[Allan]

Three guesses, Allan.

I'll guess that you're thinking of George W. Yes his incursion into Iraq would also meet the definition, in my opinion.

 

[MaryP]

I'll guess that you're thinking of George W. Yes his incursion into Iraq would also meet the definition, in my opinion.

That's who the Nuremberg trials put you in mind of? George?

 

[Allan]

That's who the Nuremberg trials put you in mind of? George?

Who did you have in mind?

 

[MaryP]

Who did you have in mind?

Seriously?

Quit pulling my pigtails, Allan.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Indeed it is .
To see the US essentially repeating the same type of nonsense that they stupidly used to claim that there was a Russian 'invasion 'of US politics . Shot down in flames .

Well done Russia for slapping the US into its now won place of failed Empire and major planet terrorist nation .
The good thing is that the US has an unbroken record of failure whenever it tries to impose its will on others .

Korea , Vietnam , Iraq , Libya , Syria , Somalia , Yemen and then the Afghanistan humiliation . A totally failed Empire that believed it was the mightiest .

I have a radical thought for you.

Have you considered...that maybe...just maybe...two things can be bad at once? Russia invading Ukraine can be imperialism...AND the US invading other countries and overthrowing their government. Those can both be bad and you can call both out as bad without cheapening the other.

 

[jpevans]

That's who the Nuremberg trials put you in mind of? George?

Among others over history. But we're talking, as Abby Hoffman said, today is the 1st day of the rest of your life. Biden is the one who pulled us out of Afghanistan. Let us not rehash the past mistakes of other presidents & put them on the present one. It's a wait & see thing. Pooten is a bad guy, a known killer, so I'm for the good guys.