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Is the President a Laughingstock?

Jack Hays

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Our President Is a Laughing Stock - Glenn Reynolds, USA Today

Remember that dumb cowboy George W. Bush, who alienated all our allies and dragged us into wars of choice in the Mideast? And remember that goofball Mitt Romney, whom Joe Biden a year ago accused of wanting to go to war in Syria?
Both of them must be having a big laugh over the way things are going for Obama now. When I wrote last week on our bumbling Syria diplomacy, it seemed that things couldn't possibly go further downhill. Boy, was I wrong.:peace
 

specklebang

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I won't hold my breath but IF the Russians actually confiscate the chemicals, then Obama will have scored a victory - a victory for all of us. No matter how you feel about him, wishing him to fail is inappropriate. Let's hope that he has 3 good years, does a great job and we all come out the far end of the tunnel better than when we went in.
 

Jack Hays

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I won't hold my breath but IF the Russians actually confiscate the chemicals, then Obama will have scored a victory - a victory for all of us. No matter how you feel about him, wishing him to fail is inappropriate. Let's hope that he has 3 good years, does a great job and we all come out the far end of the tunnel better than when we went in.

Except that Asad will have used chem weapons with impunity. As for BHO, of course everyone wants him to do well. This would not be a topic otherwise.
 

washunut

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I won't hold my breath but IF the Russians actually confiscate the chemicals, then Obama will have scored a victory - a victory for all of us. No matter how you feel about him, wishing him to fail is inappropriate. Let's hope that he has 3 good years, does a great job and we all come out the far end of the tunnel better than when we went in.

Syria seems to be using the Iranian playbook. Rope a dope negotiations, while they continue on a war that they will win if the rebels get no backing.

So we will not get the weapons out, Assad will stay in power, and the U.S. will look feckless to the world.

As to Obama doing a good job, I ascribe to the notion that:

" Hope is not a strategy".
 

Linc

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You've been here a while and for a few posts. Are OPs suppose to just ask questions after posting someone else's words, just post someone else's words, or what. This OPer has been taken on for giving no opinion and then chewing on someone else's.
Losing his chem weapons is not "impunity"
 

Linc

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Except that Asad will have used chem weapons with impunity. As for BHO, of course everyone wants him to do well. This would not be a topic otherwise.
This post belongs with the OP 2m.
 

sangha

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You've been here a while and for a few posts. Are OPs suppose to just ask questions after posting someone else's words, just post someone else's words, or what. This OPer has been taken on for giving no opinion and then chewing on someone else's.

It's his standard MO.
 

specklebang

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Except that Asad will have used chem weapons with impunity. As for BHO, of course everyone wants him to do well. This would not be a topic otherwise.

If there were one more use, I would agree. I'm amazed he fessed up to owning them but it's a good sign. There's no support for a new war as we can all plainly see. If Assad were to use them again, I suspect that there would be a big change in American attitudes. Right now, we really want a way out. But defying us would be a pretty bad play on Assad's part.

Am I wrong? Should we have gone ahead with an attack? It just seems so painful after all this horror of the last 12 years.
 

Jack Hays

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If there were one more use, I would agree. I'm amazed he fessed up to owning them but it's a good sign. There's no support for a new war as we can all plainly see. If Assad were to use them again, I suspect that there would be a big change in American attitudes. Right now, we really want a way out. But defying us would be a pretty bad play on Assad's part.

Am I wrong? Should we have gone ahead with an attack? It just seems so painful after all this horror of the last 12 years.

That's a good question that merits a long answer but I'm about to start a business meeting. Short version goes like this. The matter has been horribly handled from the start; two years ago we could have had a wholly positive outcome with little risk and a small investment, with no US forces required. Now it's much harder, and Putin is defining our options. The outcome likely will not be good, and our POTUS will look feckless.:peace
 

specklebang

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That's a good question that merits a long answer but I'm about to start a business meeting. Short version goes like this. The matter has been horribly handled from the start; two years ago we could have had a wholly positive outcome with little risk and a small investment, with no US forces required. Now it's much harder, and Putin is defining our options. The outcome likely will not be good, and our POTUS will look feckless.:peace

Feckless. What a great word.

I'm assuming that 2 years ago was when the civil war erupted in Syria? Wouldn't that have been premature since we really were clueless at the time? What could we even have done at the time? We surely don't love Assad but there are other much more important nations to worry about. Such as Iran (a lot) and NK (not as much but still...).

I am soooo OUT of love with Obama that I feel odd defending him. But he's not 100% responsible for every event in the world. Iran, for example, has been a thorn since the 1970s and nobody has handled this well or at all.

It's easier for an ally to handle a rigue nation than an opponent. So, in the case of Syria, I feel it is Putin's job and HE has been "feckless" since he should have insisted on Assad at the very least never using theses CWs since militarily, killing a bunch of kids doesn't accomplish anything useful and it was bound to arouse a ****-storm.

Frankly, I'm very unconvinced about who, if anybody, used these CWs. Bodies are bodies and it seemed like a pretty stupid move by Assad considering he's well educated and I think not religious or stupid.
 

ttwtt78640

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Feckless. What a great word.

I'm assuming that 2 years ago was when the civil war erupted in Syria? Wouldn't that have been premature since we really were clueless at the time? What could we even have done at the time? We surely don't love Assad but there are other much more important nations to worry about. Such as Iran (a lot) and NK (not as much but still...).

I am soooo OUT of love with Obama that I feel odd defending him. But he's not 100% responsible for every event in the world. Iran, for example, has been a thorn since the 1970s and nobody has handled this well or at all.

It's easier for an ally to handle a rigue nation than an opponent. So, in the case of Syria, I feel it is Putin's job and HE has been "feckless" since he should have insisted on Assad at the very least never using theses CWs since militarily, killing a bunch of kids doesn't accomplish anything useful and it was bound to arouse a ****-storm.

Frankly, I'm very unconvinced about who, if anybody, used these CWs. Bodies are bodies and it seemed like a pretty stupid move by Assad considering he's well educated and I think not religious or stupid.

IMHO, you place way too much faith that gov't personnel are under the direct control of the president, either here or in Syria. See how easily Obama, or any other president, is not held personally accountable for all manner of screw-ups made by federal personnel (fast & fuzzy, IRS or Benghazi); now imagine if those federal personnel were religious/tribal fanatics with far less education.
 
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Ockham

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I don't think Obama's a laughingstock - though he's made great strides in the past few weeks to get there. I think he's confused and his sudden jerk to the center to ask a Congress, which hasn't been his ally the same Congress he bypasses and hold what seems like disdain, for military approval in Syria made him look more like milquetoast. Now Putin comes in and Rick Rolls him with a plan that frankly, is a long shot at best working through the UN. Even with a UN agreement, the actual execution to secure and move chemical weapons during an on going civil war is tantamount to impossible unless someone calls a time out for a few weeks at least. Putin played to the West's lack of enthusiasm for yet another ME entanglement and bought time for Assad, made Obama look weak, and made Putin look like the adult in the room.

Russia - 1 U.S. - 0
 

specklebang

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IMHO, you place way too much faith that gov't personnel are under the direct control of the president, either here or in Syria. See how easily Obama, or any other president, is not held personally accountable for all manner of screw-ups made by federal personnel (fast & fuzzy, IRS or Benghazi); now imagine if those federal personnel were religious/tribal fanatics with far less education.

That is part of my point. The Syrian "Feds" are secular dictators. The rebels are "religious/tribal fanatics with far less education". So did Assad's people use the CWs or did the Rebels use them? And were they even used at all? And if so...by whose decision and implementation?

Good grief©. I'm not only defending Obama but now I'm "defending" Assad as well. But in summation, I partially requote "Frankly, I'm very unconvinced about who, if anybody, used these CWs. Bodies are bodies and it seemed like a pretty stupid move".
 

ttwtt78640

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That is part of my point. The Syrian "Feds" are secular dictators. The rebels are "religious/tribal fanatics with far less education". So did Assad's people use the CWs or did the Rebels use them? And were they even used at all? And if so...by whose decision and implementation?

Good grief©. I'm not only defending Obama but now I'm "defending" Assad as well. But in summation, I partially requote "Frankly, I'm very unconvinced about who, if anybody, used these CWs. Bodies are bodies and it seemed like a pretty stupid move".

Stupid or brilliant depends on who did it and why. If Assad did it and ends up with no U.S. military intervention, more aid from Russia and Iran then he can stop using CWs and still continue to kill his opposition. If the Assad "U.S. friendly" opposition did it then they may have calulated that it would be a relatively small sacrafice of innocents to force Obama to honor his "red line" deal and have the U.S. military help them get control of Syria. If some outside force, or "non U.S. friendly" oppositon did it then they may have other motives for changing the political climate in Syria - perhaps as simple as just keeping the U.S. military too busy to pay much attention to their other planned activites.
 

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I think Obama is a laughstock among all the other world leaders. His handling of Syria is just further proof of that. Putin has powned him from their first meeting.
 

FrankLee

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Our President Is a Laughing Stock - Glenn Reynolds, USA Today

Remember that dumb cowboy George W. Bush, who alienated all our allies and dragged us into wars of choice in the Mideast? And remember that goofball Mitt Romney, whom Joe Biden a year ago accused of wanting to go to war in Syria?
Both of them must be having a big laugh over the way things are going for Obama now. When I wrote last week on our bumbling Syria diplomacy, it seemed that things couldn't possibly go further downhill. Boy, was I wrong.:peace

What do you know about Reynolds? Is his expertise in international affairs? Or is it in law and something else?
 

FrankLee

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So that's what you think. O.K. So now what?
 

FrankLee

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I just joined DP and get the feeling that this Board is a place where some people who don't like the president come to hope he messes up and if he does, to applaud. Am I right?
 

FrankLee

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I think Obama is a laughstock among all the other world leaders. His handling of Syria is just further proof of that. Putin has powned him from their first meeting.

So that's what you think. O.K. So now what?
 
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