Is the Patriarchy a real thing in today's society?

[Bodi]

No it isn't. When someone pressures a woman into sex, he is already showing he doesn't really care about her feelings or desires. He is already showing his potential for violence, purely in the act of trying to coerce her. The kind of person who finds it appealing to have sex with a woman who clearly isn't into it is the same kind of person who wouldn't have much of a problem holding her down and forcing her to do it anyway.

They're the same person, dude.

At some point did she say no or stop?

If so then that is rape because not stopping is not "pressure" it is force.

Your view is that a man (person) needs verbal consent for every step.

The "may I please remove your bra... may I please touch you... may I please start kissing you again" world is unrealistic.

 

[falcata]

You disagree with the law... not me.

Then give me law and/or precedent that proves that.

Pennsylvania's statute on institutional sexual assault supports mine.

 

[Bodi]

No it isn't. When someone pressures a woman into sex, he is already showing he doesn't really care about her feelings or desires. He is already showing his potential for violence, purely in the act of trying to coerce her. The kind of person who finds it appealing to have sex with a woman who clearly isn't into it is the same kind of person who wouldn't have much of a problem holding her down and forcing her to do it anyway.

They're the same person, dude.

him - Have sex with me. C'mon baby... you want it as bad as I do...

Her - ok... (but she is thinking om because "he just showed his 'potential for violence'")?

Literally... what the ****?

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

At some point did she say no or stop?

If so then that is rape because not stopping is not "pressure" it is force.

Your view is that a man (person) needs verbal consent for every step.

The "may I please remove your bra... may I please touch you... may I please start kissing you again" world is unrealistic.

Since when? I basically never give verbal consent, unless we're trying something new that requires a decent amount of feedback. It's not hard to tell if your partner is into it. Why do rape apologists always make it sound like it's so difficult to tell if your partner enjoys sex? Who the hell are you guys having sex with?

If a man has to pressure to get sex, then he has clearly noticed that she doesn't want sex, whether she has said no or physically tried to move away. You can't have one without the other, dude.

So why is he still trying to coerce her?

 

[Bodi]

Then give me law and/or precedent that proves that.

Pennsylvania's statute on institutional sexual assault supports mine.

Consent is taken out of context the way you (and perhaps sexist judges too) are using it.

Read my above post to SaM.

 

[falcata]

Consent is taken out of context the way you (and perhaps sexist judges too) are using it.

Read my above post to SaM.

Then your definition is not congruent with actual and existing law, just what you consider what law should be.

 

[Bodi]

Since when? I basically never give verbal consent, unless we're trying something new that requires a decent amount of feedback. It's not hard to tell if your partner is into it. Why do rape apologists always make it sound like it's so difficult to tell if your partner enjoys sex? Who the hell are you guys having sex with?

If a man has to pressure to get sex, then he has clearly noticed that she doesn't want sex, whether she has said no or physically tried to move away. You can't have one without the other, dude.

So why is he still trying to coerce her?

I can see debating a person accusing another of being a rape apologist is pointless. These people are generally victim oriented sexists quick to emotionally charged false accusations that can ruin a persons like. The sexist doesn't care though... they only care to satisfy their hate which covers up their deep rooted fear.

Have a good day. :2wave:

 

[Henrin]

1st. You're quite literally painting the picture of what is the problem. You're saying women have to sacrifice their education because "boys will be boys," and basically suggesting that higher education is a man's sphere.

Nope, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that sending your children to a place where they have 25% chance of being raped is irresponsible. Thankfully, the studies are calculating the rape numbers wrong and it's more like one in eighty.

2nd. Can you give me a link to where in South Africa they believe rape curs aids?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_cleansing_myth

 

[Medusa]

Poll is incoming.

So the question is very simple: is there a system in our society that excludes women from oppurtunities and positions of power, while men get to make all of the decisions? Or is that not the case at all?

My take is that there isn't any "patriarchy" in today's society. And if there is, they are doing a downright terrible job at keeping women oppressed. Now in other places around the world like Saudi Arabia, there most definitely is a patriarchy, seeing as in those countries women have little to no rights at all.

Except few Scandinavian countries ,yes there is still patriarchy in world societies but comparing USA to Saudi Arabia does not make sense..

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

I can see debating a person accusing another of being a rape apologist is pointless. These people are generally victim oriented sexists quick to emotionally charged false accusations that can ruin a persons like. The sexist doesn't care though... they only care to satisfy their hate which covers up their deep rooted fear.

Have a good day. :2wave:

Well, you're making excuses for why rapey behavior isn't rapey. So... :shrug:

If you don't like what you're doing, stop doing it.

 

[Bodi]

Then your definition is not congruent with actual and existing law, just what you consider what law should be.

Nope. If context is taken out of context then the "actual law" is being warped... as is my point. What you are arguing is that contracts be signed because everything else might open up non.consenual quagmire accusations. It is fear based and victim establishing.

 

[Josie]

Oh yay -- it's the Han Solo sexually assaulted Princess Leia argument again. :shock:

 

[Bodi]

Well, you're making excuses for why rapey behavior isn't rapey. So... :shrug:

If you don't like what you're doing, stop doing it.

"Rapey bahaviour" cries the false accusing fearful victim.

Emotional responses like yours have landed innocent men in jail.

But as long as it helps you sleep more safely... please continue.

"Rapey behaviour"... jeez. The stupid. It hurts. :lol:

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

"Rapey bahaviour" cries the false accusing fearful victim.

Emotional responses like yours have landed innocent men in jail.

But as long as it helps you sleep more safely... please continue.

"Rapey behaviour"... jeez. The stupid. It hurts. :lol:

Accusing who of what, dude? You're the one crying about what a victim you are for being called out for your own gross comments. I mean, you're basically telling me men can't be held responsible for rape, because they can't tell whether or not their partner likes sex.

 

[Medusa]

"Rapey bahaviour" cries the false accusing fearful victim.

Emotional responses like yours have landed innocent men in jail.

But as long as it helps you sleep more safely... please continue.

"Rapey behaviour"... jeez. The stupid. It hurts. :lol:

I have never seen her become emotional

 

[Josie]

Well, you're making excuses for why rapey behavior isn't rapey. So... :shrug:

If you don't like what you're doing, stop doing it.

And we live in a society where we literally have holiday songs endorsing this behavior. And people say there's no patriarchy.

Does this song illustrate "rapey behavior" by men?

 

[Phys251]

I have trouble believing that claim.

If a man made "that claim," would you be more likely to believe it?

 

[Bodi]

Accusing who of what, dude? You're the one crying about what a victim you are for being called out for your own gross comments, dude. I mean, you're basically telling me men can't be held responsible for rape, because they can't tell whether or not their partner likes sex.

Not my fault that you cant comprehend very basic sentences... and what is with the "dude"? Does this label me a dude that fits some mold to you?

 

[Ontologuy]

Poll is incoming.

So the question is very simple: is there a system in our society that excludes women from oppurtunities and positions of power, while men get to make all of the decisions? Or is that not the case at all?

My take is that there isn't any "patriarchy" in today's society. And if there is, they are doing a downright terrible job at keeping women oppressed. Now in other places around the world like Saudi Arabia, there most definitely is a patriarchy, seeing as in those countries women have little to no rights at all.

I voted "other" ..

.. Patriarchy foundationally means: "a system of society or government in which the father or eldest male is head of the family and descent is traced through the male line."

This still exists, and rightly so.

Until the very nature of our brain and body structures precludes it, patriarchy has great value, and we should not look upon our technological advances as either precluding patriarchy or as these advancements being permanent in the wake of a global tragedy.

 

[Medusa]

Does this song illustrate "rapey behavior" by men?

When will you start defending other women as a lady ,that is what I wonder.I havent seen you do that up to now!

 

[Bodi]

I have never seen her become emotional

Do you think your opinion matters to me?

 

[falcata]

Nope, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that sending your children to a place where they have 25% chance of being raped is irresponsible. Thankfully, the studies are calculating the rape numbers wrong and it's more like one in eighty.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_cleansing_myth

You're acting as if that is a totally unavoidable phenomenon. Hence the "boys will be boys" reference I made.

That's pretty startling with South Africa though. Thank goodness it was fairly restrained to the 90's. It's not as if our own country hasn't had it's own massive misunderstandings in relation to the AIDS virus. Obviously nothing like the rape of children, but still.

 

[Henrin]

If a man made "that claim," would you be more likely to believe it?

Stop making everything into a gender war thing.

 

[Phys251]

What is wrong with his post? If the rape numbers being reported from college are correct then it brings into question why a college educated mother would allow her daughter to go there. You're talking about rape numbers that these studies are saying are 25%, which is literally higher than anywhere else in the US. Hell, South Africa has about the same rates for women and that place quite literally thinks rape cures AIDS.

Do I really need to point this out for you? If you are more offended with our pointing out asinine comments such as the one I quoted:

The argument is a quarter of all college females are brutally raped with many more sexually assaulted. Why any college grad female would ever let her daughter go baffles me.

Then you have zero standing to whine when people state that there is a rape culture on college campuses and everywhere. If you cannot figure out why, then that is your problem and your problem alone, and you need to accept responsibility for understanding why.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Does this song illustrate "rapey behavior" by men?

Um... Did you look at the screen cap on the video? Like, where she says no and he just blows that off?

Or how about the part where she wonders what he put in her drink?

Or the part where he chastises her for hurting his ego by saying no?

None of that seems creepy or, yes, rapey, to you? You would feel comfortable with a man who appears to have spiked your drink and puts his pride above your consent?